Second.....Wash State law requires that companys who lay off more than 60 employees give those disslocated a 60 day notice so this did not just happen over night. If indeed the Union did little to fight for the workers then KAHKAH on them. I flew ID90 on AS yesterday to LAX and back last night on my carrier UA and the moral on both was not as perky as is once was. This crapo is taking its toll on the employees,I dont see how corporate YOHOs see this is good.
Good luck to them all.......the join 413 UA SEARR Res center employee that will lose their jobs in 3 weeks.
By the way, all of this was under the guise of "this is the contract ALL systemwide rampers must take in order to keep the SEA ramp function in-house." So they were pitting the SEA folks against those in the state of Alaska, telling the rampers up north they'd be suffering under a horrible contract to save the jobs of those in SEA.
The union came back with paycuts and other concessions that totaled around $12M, but it wasn't enough for AS. They insisted the rampers vote on the company's "last, best and final" offer - which, not surprisingly, was voted down by 85% of the workforce.
And that led us to today's chickenshit annoucement.
So about 500 of the finest ramp service workers in aviation are unemployed today, many of which will exercise their bumping rights and displace other rampers in the state of Alaska.
In the meantime, AS claims they will continue to negotiate on a contract for those rampers still with the company in the state of Alaska.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2051 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4943 times:
As I understand the situation, Alaska had been negotiating with its mechanics for a VERY LONG time (I think 2 yrs, but don't hold me to that number) for concessions in their contract. Insofar as notification to the workers, part of that negotiation was that if they did not come to a deal before date certain, Alaska would have no choice but to let the ground staff go and convert Seattle to contract workers (that in effect was their notification). The IAM and Management worked out a deal and it went out for vote sometime a month ago and it was announced sometime last week that the Alaska workers voted down the action. Whether or not the rank and file knew what was coming is an open question, but the union knew and as long as the union was notified, then Alaska met their obligation under Washington State law, since the union represents all matters pertaining to their working relationship with the company.
Of course, all during this time, Alaska had a Plan B ready to execute in the event the rank and file decided to vote down the agreement. When the union rank and file defeated the agreement last week, Alaska set the Plan B in motion last week, gathering the workers from other stations and getting them ready to go this morning. At the same time, they had HR preparing the severage packages for each employee based on their seniority. When all was done, the union was notified and the employees were informed at 330am this morning not to come to work, that they had been separated from the company and that they would be meeting with company representatives within the day or two to discuss their severage packages.
The severage packages that have been announced are actually quite generous. If some of those guys have a fair amount of seniority in Seattle, some of them are going to walk away with a sizeable amount of money. Its the newer guys who take the hit, although if they have been with AS enough time to qualify for the medical benefits, then they will receive those benefits for another year from today.
I agree that this is a sad day and that I personally hate to see people lose their jobs and have their lives disrupted this way. Unfortunately, I have been there before (more than once), and the last time, I got a decent severace package, but I had to fight for it. Not too much, The discussions were amicable and short, but still I had to work to clear a few matters which had been promised, which I could not let be dropped. Ultimately I got what I needed and did not damage my relationships doing it.
However, in the case of the Alaska workers, it would seem that they chose to leave their jobs rather than have lower pay. That was their choice. With the packages Alaska is giving them, it would seem that Alaska wll be furthering the concept of contract baggage handlng.
Good luck Alaska...I suspect you are really going to need it in the coming days and weeks. You did not do yourself any PR favors today.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
Qxq400 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4893 times:
Quoting Baw716 (Reply 7): However, in the case of the Alaska workers, it would seem that they chose to leave their jobs rather than have lower pay. That was their choice. With the packages Alaska is giving them, it would seem that Alaska wll be furthering the concept of contract baggage handlng.
While I agree with you 100%, I still have a heavy heart for all my former AAG fellow rampers in SEA. My thoughts and prayers go out to you.
Having said that I to believe that AS rampers choice to leave there jobs. AAG offered a top pay of $15 per Hr. The top pay was $21 per hr.That was a sizeable reduction in pay. But know the top pay for rampers in SEA is 0$.
I complain about alot of things on this board... but in particular I complained about high prices AS charges in the "off season" when they have no competition up here....
AS has been a very good and respected company in the past and have been successful in defending thier "Niche"... but I think the current back stepping is due to their inability to compete with the LCC's and AS management is worried about the future and their inabilty to compete.... laying off 500 dedicated employees is not the way to accomplish cost savings... this will hurt them in the long run...
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15247 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
I'm thankful that people in this thread all have the tact to at least acknowledge that it's a sad day, rather than the "Well, they're just RAMPERS - they should be lucky to get the severance they're getting!" crap that I've seen from others elsewhere.
It's a sad, sad day. And frankly, as I've opined elsewhere, talking about the great severance package the rampers are getting is like telling someone whose spouse just died, "Well, look on the bright side - you're getting a ton of money from your insurance! Won't that be nice, too?"
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
ScarletHarlot From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 4673 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4519 times:
The sixty day requirement in the state of Washington does not mean that people get to actively stay in their jobs for sixty days. You can be told not to come to work today...your employer just has to pay you and give you benefits as if you are still working.
Having been through one last year, let me tell you that layoffs suck. Even with a generous severance package. It's like saying goodbye to your family.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4972 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4439 times:
Unfortunate, I have never really liked "ground handling companies", while most aren't as bad as Evergreen...I like when companies employ their own rampers. I know that Menzies works AS in PDX which is either the third or fourth biggest AS station.
Douglas7Seas From United States of America, joined May 2004, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4137 times:
I have noticed something that may be unrelated, but let me ask for opinions. Over the last three years I have traveled frequently between LAX and SEA/PDX. Most of the time I fly on Alaska. On time arrivals and departures were so common, I didn't even consider the idea of delays.
About a year and a half ago, I noted delays of thirty to ninety minutes begin. Quite often this was associated with mechanical problems. Additionally, I note the onset of a disdainful approach to treatment of "coach" class passengers.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3675 times:
They did stand up and voted it down. I'm not sure I would have done this but I salute you all anyway. Soon many more may have to make this choice. And just as soon the customers will probably be able to tell the results.
What does this bode for all other airline contracts and not just us lowly rampers who loved our jobs?
For anyone who snipes at these workers for not wanting to give up what they had worked for in wages, work rules, pride and honor over the years of their employment please stop and realize they knew just what was coming or should have and used the ballot to move on with their lives. Not riots, not raunchy passenger demeaning demonstrations, but the ballot.
Bless you folks for there but for the grace (and time) go many more of us.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
FlyingNanook From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
I just got back from FAI after going with my roommate to pick his family up. You would not believe the amount of mishandled baggage today (yesterday, Friday I mean). After people had claimed their bags, the entire belt was full of expedited luggage from prior mishandling. The belt was completely packed, as was the middle section and the walls had luggage lined up along them. It was crazy. Also the line for missing baggage claims was insane. I would estimate that at least 1/3 to 2/5 of the plane had missing baggage.
My roommate's mom and sister flew SJC-SEA-FAI and his aunt and cousin flew EUG-SEA-FAI (QX for the first leg, AS for the last). SJC-SEA was delayed, as was SEA-FAI. What I don't understand is that SEA-FAI is a continuation from DCA which arrived at SEA 30 min early, had 2 hours before the departure to FAI, but still managed to leave 30 min late. This happens frequently, not just today. Anyways, back to the topic, his mom's and sister's bags are now missing and they ended up at the end of the line for missing baggage. The flight got in about 1am and his mom was in line for at least an hour. We took the rest of the family to the hotel at about 2am, I got dropped off at home at 2:15, and now it's 2:45 and my roommate still isn't back, so his mom could still be in line.
So right now it is a mad house. I feel sorry for all the people working in baggage offices around the AS system today. If there was this much missing baggage at FAI, I can't even imagine how bad it must be at larger airports in the system.
I understand that when switching employees suddenly like this, problems will occur, but this is crazy. Hopefully everything will get normal before too long or there will be some very angry tourists visiting Alaska soon. (Tourist season starts on Sunday) Then again, for some reasons, tourists visiting Alaska seem to get angry for some reason. But I digress.
Does anybody know how long it will take for everything to normalize?
Flyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3209 times:
Well it sounds like AS planned this out pretty well. The new contract proposal was so bad that I think they did it intentially so it would be turned down. Then they could just say "Oh well...thanks for playing...bye bye!" It's a poor, poor way of doing things let me tell ya. I'm very suprised actually because I was always under the impression AS treated them employees well. HP rampers top out around $15-16 an hour....we should all be grateful, we're still getting raises and keeping our jobs. Good luck to anyone who got layed off.
LineMechQX From United States of America, joined May 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3071 times:
Its a sad day indeed, where does it all stop? Fleet services, GSE, mechanics, rampers, am I missing anyone? What's left then? Why bother to fly airplanes anymore? Maybe F/A's can be outsourced to someone in India at a computer screen making preflight announcements. Maybe planes will start flying themselves?At what point is an airline not an airline? When it no longer employs people and only pays third parties to do all the work? At what point does a (what I naively thought, 4 years ago) good respectable airline, realize that the economy is depressed, and that someday things will be better? I support the rampers all the way, one can only pray that Alaska will realize what a mistake this is and work with the union to give the workers their jobs back. What gets me most about all these layoffs is that if not for all these huge severance packages (which I'm not discouraging, I only wish they were more) the AAG would be much closer to being in the black. (if not in it). So spend a big load of money to lay people off, accept penalties for shutting down facilities, for what? 5 years down the road it might start to pay off, but then who's gonna notice when the economy is on the rebound.
They warned me about aviation, but I didn't listen, I have the disease.
Good Luck to the SEA and AK rampers, as well as all (below management) AAG employees, its gonna be a rough year.
: Can I ask why didn't the Pilots and F/A'S stand up for their union brothers and sisters and go on strike if the union ramp is replaced?
: Airlines are still airlines, even if they outsource ramp or overhaul work. Airlines in the US, however, are gradually turning into more shell compani
: Like some of you have said, this was a decision that the rampers made, its not big bad AS for doing this to them they decided that they would rather f
28 EA CO AS
: Like some of you have said, this was a decision that the rampers made, its not big bad AS for doing this to them What utter nonsense. That's like blam
: The 24.9% paycut wasn't the main reason they voted down the contract. It was the other four pages of contract changes that Alaska wanted. Just like E
: People can come up with an excuse to explain any terrible act. Certain politicians have used many in recent years to justify war. I guess that means I