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FLL To Cruise Ship Passengers: Go Elsewhere.  
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32734 posts, RR: 72
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6477 times:

The South Florida Sun-Sentinel and Miami Herald are now publishing these stories on a daily basis. This one, though, has some interesting news...

In a desperate attempt to relieve overcrowding, long security lines, and delays at what has become America's most congested airport, Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood airport officials are considering a plan in which they will reduce the amount of cruise ship travelers flying through the airport. Cruise ship travelers account for an estimated 10% of the airports 20,000,000 annual passengers.

The airport and airlines have contracts with the major cruise companies to carry passengers. When they come up for renewal, the airport would like to reduce the amount of passengers in those contracts, or elimate some altogether.

In addition, many cruise ship passengers aren't even going to Fort Lauderdale's port - Port Everglades - but rather to the Port of Miami. Officials would perfer that those passengers start using MIA.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...820.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines


a.
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6435 times:

I doubt the airlines will agree with it, that's a big chunk of revenue to be lost...and besides, they do NOT let anyone thru security on peak cruise days no sooner than 2 hours prior to departure, so that has relieved the congestion somewhat. They need to get that friggin' paralell runway built and make more use of runway 13/31 in the interim!

User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6405 times:

Having grown up in West Palm Beach, just north of there, it would seem to me that the main reason there is so much traffic into Fort Lauderdale has more to do with the prices into and out of the airport rather than the cruise lines that service the area. While not exceptionally difficult it would be far more convenient for those leaving out Port of Miami to fly into MIA anyways rather than take the (more and more often) grueling drive down I-95 from Broward County.

Even today when pricing a trip to go down to see my family oftentimes a flight into Fort Lauderdale will be considerably lower than a flight into either the much larger Miami airport or the much more convenient Palm Beach International.

How much pressure would the airport be able to bring to bear on their airline customers to bring the pricing in line to force cruise passenger air bookings into either MIA for the cruise traffic out of there or into PBI for what they're picking up going out of the Port Of Palm Beach?


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6280 times:

Just remember the old saying - Be careful what you wish for

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6273 times:

Will FLL end up being America's next slot-controlled airport?


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User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Will FLL end up being America's next slot-controlled airport?

Depends. No if they can use another runway. Yes if they can't.

Quoting John (Reply 1):
I doubt the airlines will agree with it, that's a big chunk of revenue to be lost...

I doubt most of the airlines will care too much. They aren't talking about a large number of passengers. If it were all then there would be some concern. Besides why would DL, AA, CO and others care if they want to send more passengers to MIA or PBI to catch cruises out of Port Everglades. The cruise companies are the ones who would have to drive their busses a little farther.
I can't think of an airline off the top of my head that exclusively serves FLL and not MIA, PBI or a combo of the three and has a large cruise ship contract.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6237 times:

Very interesting situation, indeed.

On one hand, Port Everglades is booming, with more and more, and bigger and bigger cruise ships using the Port as a home port for Caribbean cruises - a few ships are based at Port Everglades year round but most only spend the Winter Season there. Port Everglades is also looking to expand.

Just down the block (really) is FLL, which is facing capacity constraints and cannot accommodate all of the cruise pax and is therefore thinking about turning away cruise pax. Not the situation one would expect.

There is a lot of press about FLL and its delays and problems lately....these articles reflect the need for a second runway at FLL which faces opposition from nearby communities. Something has to be done.....Fort Lauderdale/Broward is growing at a rapid pace, new upmarket hotels and expensive condos are going up on the beach and downtown, and FLL must keep pace. The pressure is building for the new runway.

It is true that many budget minded travellers fly with the LCCs into FLL and then proceed to cruise ships home porting in Miami.....one of the problems, but many of those pax do not use air/sea packages offered by the cruise lines and travel agents, they simply buy a cheap cruise and then contact Southwest, or another LCC and grab a cheap fare....how do you stop that?

This will work out, no doubt, some reasonable deal will be made between the airport, the port and Broward.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32734 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6179 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
one of the problems, but many of those pax do not use air/sea packages offered by the cruise lines and travel agents, they simply buy a cheap cruise and then contact Southwest, or another LCC and grab a cheap fare....how do you stop that?

Fly jetBlue or Independence Air to MIA.  Smile

Both are supposed to happen within 6-8 months. Hopefully.



a.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6057 times:

They don't want 'em?

...hell, send them HERE!!!


We've been trying (and succeeding!) like mad in attracting more cruise passengers.


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Ironically, many of the additionals happen to be coming from a city in the southern UK that almost no one here has ever heard of (BOH). Who knew?  Silly


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

Fort Lauderdale’s airport is a product of its own success, with nearly every low fare carrier known to mandkind offering cut throat competition, low fares.

User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Both are supposed to happen within 6-8 months. Hopefully.

You want B6 in MIA. Wouldn't that negatively effect AA's revenue into NYC?

You want DH In MIA. Wouldnt that negatively effect AA's revenue into WAS?



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7146 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 10):

You want B6 in MIA. Wouldn't that negatively effect AA's revenue into NYC?

You want DH In MIA. Wouldnt that negatively effect AA's revenue into WAS?

There is enought demand for MIA-NYC for B6 and AA co-exist. I sure its the same with MIA-DC. Both flights have plenty of demand.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32734 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 10):

You want B6 in MIA. Wouldn't that negatively effect AA's revenue into NYC?

The strong revenue on MIA-LGA and MIA-EWR, and jetBlue will most definitley do MIA-JFK, not the former. I truly doubt AA makes that much money on MIA-JFK local traffic. Just look at how many seats they offer in the market...five daily widebodies and a 757.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 10):
You want DH In MIA. Wouldnt that negatively effect AA's revenue into WAS?

Again, the strong revenue is on MIA-DCA, not MIA-IAD.

Of course, any compietition will hurt AA's revenue, but I don't think it will be anything drastic. AA already matches some FLL LCC fares out of MIA on routes to New York City, Boston, and DC.



a.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

If JetBlue and I-Air do enter the MIA market as expected, there will be significant ramifications. Firstly, AA will finally have competition on some key routes in and out of MIA - while I think that the market can support additional flights, it will be an adjustment for AA at its very profitable MIA hub. I agree that the local traffic on AA's JFK-MIA or IAD-MIA routes are probably not a big money makers and fares are not outrageous, but AA will certainly have to adjust its inventory of cheaper fares on these routes to counter its new competiton.

The more interesting aspect of LCCs into MIA will be its affect on FLL - while MIA is one of those airports that everyone loves to hate, its not bad for domestic flights (international arrivals can be another story) and FLL is quickly losing its claim as South Florida's convient airport with the increasing delays and space and runway issues. Will the travelling public looking for cheaper airfares that now use FLL go back to MIA? The answer is yes - especially for those living in or travelling to Miami, Miami Beach, and South Dade county or those departing on cruises that depart from the Port of Miami that go out of the way to use FLL for the sole purpose of saving some money. Will LCCs at MIA solve some of FLL's problems? In my opinion, probably not. There will be some impact, but Broward itself is growing at a rapid pace and a shift of some domestic traffic back from FLL to MIA will only provide temporary relief.


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

Isn't there a way to expand the exisiting terminal or build a new one?!?! I can't understand why someone would want to DECREASE the amount of revenue coming through!!! Makes no sense..

Chris



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User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 14):
Isn't there a way to expand the exisiting terminal or build a new one?!?! I can't understand why someone would want to DECREASE the amount of revenue coming through!!! Makes no sense..

Chris

While terminal space is tight at FLL, the bigger problem seems to be the layout of the terminals themselves. FLL has four terminal buildings with multiple security points, and even the newest building which only opened a couple of years ago does not seem to absorb passengers that well. The bigger problem is the runway, FLL needs a second runway for larger airliners to ease arrivals and departures.


User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

as a former Air Canada employee @ FLL/MIA (laid off by Milton a couple years ago then offered to be rehired in the "new" Air Canada USA program ((which stripped us of Canadian benefits))), I can attest that the cruise lines LOVE dropping all the pax off between 9AM and 10AM.. our queue would be 4 hours deep with at least 500 people in line... those of you familiar with Terminal 4, our line would go all the way to the END OF THE ROADWAY by the commuter terminal, then wrap back around to the entrance nearest our counters.

I have had passengers standing in line for over 5 hours before.

this is a major problem that needs to be addressed.. the cruiselines or airport needs to develop a "day area" or somethin for cruise pax to veg in until they can check in for their flights.

-n


User currently offlineArmada From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

Fort Lauderdale will eventually be building a people mover system, similiar to that of Miami's, that will connect FLL, downtown, and the port.

Unfortunately, that is at least a decade off. But what I have found interesting is that ever since FLL has been restricted by the FAA, there has been a huge increase in pax traffic here in the last two weeks. Very abnormal, and no one can really explain where all these people are coming from.


User currently offlineBOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

annually, how many crusie pax fly into the south florida area, as in how many people fly to mia, fll and pbi just for cruises?

User currently offlineJFernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

As someone who routinely does NYC-Miami, and having a place in Miami Beach makes FLL slightly more appetizing, I've simply found the ontime performance of FLL and the nice fares I tend to get on LGA-MIA (because of the AA flight frequency) to make MIA much better than FLL. FLL can be a flipping zoo.

User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

I hate to tell FLL this, but cruise passengers are increasingly booking their own airfare than letting the cruise line make the arrangements. This is because the costs are much lower (by $200 per passenger) when the passenger does it, and the routing is often much better.

User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

I am so sick of the NIMBYs near FLL ruining this airport. They need a parallel runway and the trailer trash that lives to the south is hindering that. If the airport is slotted or forced to decrease, an increase in fares are sure to follow at some point - affecting me. I fly through FLL at least seven to 10 times a year and I prefer it for the reasons stated above - the fares are way better than MIA and PBI.

These people live near an airport - what do you expect? It is noisy - deal with it. If it weren't for the airport bringing in millions of dollars, your life would be worse than it already is.

I apologize for getting so worked up, but I am sick of this whole debate already. Build the second runway - or even extend the existing one and tunnel US1 under it for larger aircraft. Something, anything to keep this airport flourishing.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting Jetpixx (Reply 21):
They need a parallel runway and the trailer trash that lives to the south is hindering that.

Why must every airport be a giant behmoth?

FLL handles a ton of traffic. It's not unreasonable to not agree to expand it into another MIA. And there's a lot more than 'trailer trash' there.

Steve


User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4986 times:

As a former resident of Dania Beach, I will don my flamesuit and side with the NIMBYs.

We of course prefer the parallel north runway.



Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

This may sound radical, but what about putting I-595 underground and building the new runway on top?!. The neighbors wouldn't have a chance to complain and maybe the access roads to/from I-95/US1/Airport/port can be improved... just a thought. I know is no going to happen.

25 Katanapilot : this seems strange to me. an airport is a business like any other. you would think they would try to attract MORE cruise passengers in order to apply
26 USAFHummer : A little too radical I think... Greg
27 DeltaMIA : Damn if they did that people who commute to work would have to leave their houses 2 hours earlier for 10 years given how quickly road work gets done.
28 Armada : No offense, but when you choose to live near an aiport, you have to expect two things: 1. noise 2. expansion The Nimby's in Malleluca Gardens might de
29 Newkai : Isn't there a good underused airport within 50 miles of FLL that's close to a port that could be expanded to serve as the cruise airport?
30 MAH4546 : MIA, which is only 18 miles south and very close to the Port of Miami. Handles about 30M passengers a year, will have the capacity to handle 65M when
31 GARUDAROD : Newkai, Are you talking about the old facility Eastern used to use for touch and goes in the middle of the Everglades?? A simple solution to the conge
32 Jetpixx : All airports do not need to be a 'behemoth', but when the demand is there and a group of people are holding up progress and affecting the good of the
33 Armada : The south runway will require that US1 be put underground. The park along the southern edge of the airport, along Griffin Road, will also be taken ou
34 LTBEWR : I would also suggest that many people going to South Florida, especially from Miami and north and not just cruise pax prefer FLL vs. MIA. Many of here
35 Vivavegas : FWIW, I just booked YX - MKE-FLL for a cruise departing Miami. This is not due lower fares into FLL (but yes it was cheaper), but the lack of NS fligh
36 Sllevin : Let me get this straight -- I'm not worthy to comment because it's in not in my current backyard, but you also wish to discount the opinions of those
37 Jetpixx : Local residents who live near the airport should expect a burgeoning airport to expand and not stand in the way for the good of the community. The ai
38 FlyMIA : Yes the carjackings did occur but that was really because criminals could easily spot tourist in rental cars because the car would say what car renta
39 DCA-ROCguy : Let me get this straight -- I'm not worthy to comment because it's in not in my current backyard, but you also wish to discount the opinions of those
40 Post contains links DB777 : Where did you get this information? Can you provide some written reference? The plan for numerous years has been to build the runway over US1, not pu
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