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FAA To Punish Pilot Who Violated Capital Airspace  
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/14/capital.alert.ap/index.html

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2925 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

He will probaly get his license revoked. Serves him right. Flying is a serious business that does not tolerate ANY mistakes. He just screwed it up for the rest of us. Now the TFR zone in Washington might get bigger.


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Good the guy is an idiot. How many thousands of dollars did it cost the government to send F-16s up and evacutate numerous government buildings?

User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting NorCal (Reply 2):
Good the guy is an idiot.

No doubts about it. The damage was done.


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

I agree that he should lose his license, after all the work and lobbying that the AOPA has done to get the TFR's reduced and Washington National open to GA traffic, now because of this idiot its like taking two steps back.

User currently offlineSenorcarnival From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting NorCal (Reply 2):
How many thousands of dollars did it cost the government to send F-16s up and evacutate numerous government buildings?

A couple of thousand bucks is chump change in terms of running a country.
The real question is, why did this idiot not have the insight to plan his flight around the TFR knowing he was going through the area?


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

I just have to wonder what their faces looked like when two F-16's blew past on afterburner! lol I saw the video of the one in handcuffs by the side of the runway. I kept waiting to see them stand him up and see a dark splotch on the front of his pants! lol You just have to think that at least the student would have said something like "Gosh that looks just like the Washington monument, what is that thing?"

I would think that the government will charge at least a portion of the bill involved in alerting everyone and scrambling those jets. I am also sadly sure that some lawyer will file a civil lawsuit on someone's part claiming some sort of personal injury due to their negligence. They may not go to jail but I doubt they will ever be rich men either.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

I want to be sympathetic to this guy but I'm finding it hard. The biggest TFR in the US and he goes crashing right through it on a site seeing tour over DC. Even if he wasn't reading his sectionals he should have known to be vigilent, this isn't the first time this has happened and gotten national press coverage.


PHX based
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

Why would he NOT be surprised when a Blackhawk helicopter appeared as he sat there gawking at the White House, Washington Monument, Capitol, Jefferson Memorial, and Lincoln Memorial. Where has this guy been for the past four years? Under a rock?

What bothers me is the way he froze up. He's the instructor, for God's sake! So much for being able to handle an emergency.

He deserves whatever he gets. He endangered the life of his student and people on ground (A Sparrow missle would have caused a lot of debris). I hope they bill him for the expenses for his ignorant sight-seeing tour.

I wonder what will happen to the Cessna. The US Fish & Wildlife Service could surely use it. Maybe the flying club will sue him if they don't get it back.

Mark


User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 827 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

Instead of spending millions of dollars on GTA Missles maybe the goverment should invest in a warning device for GA aircraft to let them know when they are 10 or 20 NM from restricted airspace.

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

Quoting USAir330 (Reply 9):
maybe the goverment should invest in a warning device for GA aircraft to let them know when they are 10 or 20 NM from restricted airspace

They have.


http://www.faa.gov/news/news_home/visual_warning/


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Quoting USAir330 (Reply 9):
Instead of spending millions of dollars on GTA Missles maybe the goverment should invest in a warning device for GA aircraft to let them know when they are 10 or 20 NM from restricted airspace.


I saw a report on CBS the other night that this is close to being a done deal. They have several laser sights around DC that are directional in their operation. If a plane flies too close to the airspace they will be lit up. The lasers are not the kind that can hurt your eyes but can be seen from up to 30 miles away depending on visibility. They flash two greens and a red and alert you that you are getting too close for comfort.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

How do you think the student felt? Thinking "omg this idiot is going to get us shot down". That makes me wonder if the student was just along for the ride or if he was in the left seat. If he was in control of the plane I would expect him to share some responsibility especially with 30 hours in. Don't you start flying solo after 20 hours?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineDC10GUY From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

I wonder why they didn't use that new laser warning system that was rolled out a couple weeks ago ???


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5237 times:

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 13):
I wonder why they didn't use that new laser warning system that was rolled out a couple weeks ago ???

If the dumb f*ck didn't know he was over the middle of Washington, DC and didn't know it was restricted airspace and didn't know what a pair of F-16's firing flares and dipping their wings meant, how would he know what the green and red lights are for?

Mark


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

They are SOOOOOO lucky they didn't get shot down.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

From what I hear, the instructor was a blockhead who totally messed everything up! Frozen solid, unable to conduct himself properly. Not to mention that he was the one who got them in that situation in the first place! Not AT ALL on the ball...

Meanwhile, the student took control of the situation. Communicated with the intercepting armed forces, and plotted/executed the landing.

If all this is true, the instructor has no business flying any kind of airplane, anywhere! I say FIND HIS NAME AND PRINT IT! This dude is an idiot...

Now don't get me started on how our government officials kept the President so "out-of-the-loop" on this emergency. George and company are idiots. This whole thing was a fiasco that should chill every American to the bone!


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5184 times:

Terriffice another person is going to lose their livelyhood due to the fact the goverment is full of very paranoid idiots.

This guy was about as much of a threat to the capitol as Bill Clinton's pennicillin passer was.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):
Terriffice another person is going to lose their livelyhood due to the fact the goverment is full of very paranoid idiots.

This guy was about as much of a threat to the capitol as Bill Clinton's pennicillin passer was.

Who is Terriffice?

NOW we know that these people were not a threat. While is was happening we did not know that.

What would you have had happen? The fact of the matter is this: ***There is to be no flying of any kind over the capitol, the White House, or other sensitive areas!***

Multiple NOTAMS, bulletins, and other information have been posted in the past 3+ years with regard to this information! Nobody should be flying in the direction of, or the vicinity of, the White House, for goodness sake! It is not too hard to figure out, yet this "instructor" (quote-unquote) seems to be really out of the LOOP!

He should be working in an office someplace, not flying around Washington DC! Much less "instructing" student pilots.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

I can in a few minutes sum up my personal flight experience and even I know to avoid that place. Maybe this comes from living on the space coast in Florida and flying with my stepdad and knowing about restricted air spaces. But dang. He is a professional. No excuse.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):
Terriffice another person is going to lose their livelyhood due to the fact the goverment is full of very paranoid idiots.

This guy was about as much of a threat to the capitol as Bill Clinton's pennicillin passer was

It's you who is the idiot. I think we should ground this 69 year old flight instructor if he can't keep control of his faculties while piloting a plane and respond to clear warnings from the intercepting aircraft.

The fact that this particular person turned out not to be a threat is irrelevent. The simple fact of the matter is that it would be rather easy for someone to simply fly a plane into a government building in the DC area without a large enough no-fly zone that allows the authorities to have sufficient reaction time to intercept the aircraft. Hell, someone already did it to the White House in the 1994 with a GA aircraft. If that guy had explosives in the aircraft, he could have done serious damage.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):
This guy was about as much of a threat to the capitol as Bill Clinton's pennicillin passer was.

As previously mentioned, who would have thought a rubber dingy would be a threat to the USS Cole?

Here's one of many reasons why a Cessna 152 IS a threat:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37013


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4363 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 4):
I agree that he should lose his license, after all the work and lobbying that the AOPA has done to get the TFR's reduced and Washington National open to GA traffic, now because of this idiot its like taking two steps back.



It's truly amazing how DUMB some pilots are. And make no mistake: this guy was a total moron.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):
If the dumb f*ck didn't know he was over the middle of Washington, DC and didn't know it was restricted airspace and didn't know what a pair of F-16's firing flares and dipping their wings meant, how would he know what the green and red lights are for?

Very true. This individual has no business being a PIC. And regardless of what the reasons were for him getting lost, the moron was flying VFR over one of the most recognizable pieces of terrain in the world. The fact of the matter is, if anyone is flying within 100 nautical miles of DCA then they should be extra vigilent and observant.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

The simple fact of the matter is that it would be rather easy for someone to simply fly a plane into a government building in the DC area without a large enough no-fly zone that allows the authorities to have sufficient reaction time to intercept the aircraft

And exactly how large should that be?

Do you really think that it would be impossible to get something faster in there before the flyboys could react.

This guy is a victim of the US of A Federal Goverment, one of the most corrupt and unfair goverments on the face of this earth. He is being used as an example. I love how all of you are calling for this poor mans head, yet he has had no trial.

The people here who claim the FAA's response is the right one are some very sick individuals.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 21):

As previously mentioned, who would have thought a rubber dingy would be a threat to the USS Cole?

Here's one of many reasons why a Cessna 152 IS a threat:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...37013

egad..you actually read that website rubbish propaganda?  sarcastic  I wouldn't be surprised if you think Ann Coulter is a goddess (and everything on Fox news is "Fair and Balanced"-but I do like Jeraldo Rivera..he's one of the only people at Fox News who is "Fair and Balanced")...........the only person on that website who has a brain is Pat Buchanan (he has enough balls to criticise this Bush Govt.)...too bad that pie didn't hit A.C. in the face..now THAT would have been funny  rotfl 



"Up the Irons!"
25 57AZ : How the times have changed. Back about fifteen years ago, we were departing DCA in our private plane on an IFR flightplan and busted the prohibited ai
26 UA772IAD : Good. That personally made my afternoon hell, since half of Downtown Washington was evacuated. That's just common sense, you don't have to know much a
27 Jahckass : I feel the FAA's response is right, and i feel fine, thanks for the concern!
28 StealthZ : NOT!!..The guy is a victim of his own stupidity, there are many places better than this to argue the validity or politics of the no fly zones in the
29 Atmx2000 : Frankly, I don't think a 69 year old should be a flight instructor. No telling when he is going to have a heart attack or a stroke, leaving some poor
30 Atmx2000 : The time needed to deal with an encroachment by a nonresponsive aircraft is a function of the time to travel the distance to potential targets from t
31 VEEREF : This probably one of the most acute examples of loss of situational awareness I have seen in my 16 years of flying. Not to hijack this thread but sadl
32 FSPilot747 : eh. the CFI was 69, i dont think he's lookin for an airline job, i dont feel so bad for him anymore.
33 Olympus69 : Did I miss something? Where did it say that Shaeffer is an Instructor? The only facts I have read state that the two guys were on their way to an Air
34 Pilotpip : I flew to the DC area last year. Things may have changed now, but at the time you had to be in contact with Potomac approach when you were in the DC A
35 CORULEZ05 : Everyone makes mistakes and this pilot is being a victim of an over-reacting government. Isn't it sad that we feel SOOOOO UNSAFE that in the even of a
36 KaiGywer : HAYDEN LOWERY SHEAFFER JR Address Street 1209 ORCHARD RD City LITITZ State PENNSYLVANIA County LANCASTER Zip Code 17543-9702 Country UNITED STATES Med
37 Airways6max : He should have his license revoked. From all the accounts and his failure to take basic precautions before taking off, he has no business flying an ai
38 VEEREF : Even prior to 9/11 an airspace transgretion of this nature was subject to certificate action. It's not so much because of a terrorist threat but in g
39 VS74741R : Just out of curiosity, how the hell does a F16 fly slow enough to stay with a Cessna 150.
40 RedFlyer : It doesn't. It flies past at very slow speed (for the F16), which is still about 60 kts. faster than the Cessna.
41 Douglas7Seas : Some senior citizen screws up in his little Cessna 150.... No one hurt, no damage done. Let's move beyond it. Or, apply a little proportionality... Du
42 777STL : Yanking someone's ticket is a pretty routine occurance, definitely not unheard of and really not that big of a deal. It's not like the FAA gave this
43 BravoGolf : This is interesting that now national attention is being given to a long time problem, namely some pilots should never have been licensed. Ask any con
44 Post contains images We're Nuts : Actually he lives in Alaska (Ruby Ridge North?) Hi L-188! No, I'm not back, I just pop in from time to time and share my thoughts. Don't worry! I don'
45 Slider : Amen. This is a statement of ignorance. Now this guy may be a total moron with bad judgement (and I think we can all agree on this fact), but he's go
46 Aa777jr : Anyone smart enough to know how to operate a plane should be smart enough to know to stay out of RESTRICTED airspace. I have no sympathies for the pil
47 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Oh for the love of God...oops, sorry, not supposed to say "that" any more. Anyhow, I'm sure once Hilary is president her first act will be to rescind
48 Douglas7Seas : Heyy Dave, Sorry ya find this thread so tedious. Let me lead you through my thought, step, by tiny step. The old, guy, the one flyin' the little pudd
49 KBFIspotter : What about the Student? Will any legal action be taken against him? I know for a fact that when I am on training flights, I have the right to devert t
50 Theredbaron : Lets think this from other point of view.... Let say the DHS or another agency wants to ban completelly overflying the central DC area, heck even in i
51 OptionsCLE : KBFIspotter, When you log time as a student pilot it is Dual Received. The student pilot is not considered the PIC on flights with an instructor and I
52 Flyboy36y : L-188, I agree with you, in part. People bust airspace all the time. The FAA is going overboard. But, he should get a suspension.
53 PlanesNTrains : Gosh, Doug, thanks. Let me reply in words that you seem to like. Sorry ya find my response so tedious. Let me lead you through my thought, step, by t
54 AsstChiefMark : "It was only a Cessna 152. I don't know why the Feds overreacted." I don't understand that line of thinking. If a guy somehow got into the White House
55 THVGJP : Well I take lessons about 20 miles west of LNS (Lancaster,Pa) there are those nice little pamphlets all over the school instructing us students what t
56 EZEIZA : It is pretty amazing that a small cessna freaked everyone in the capital of the most powerful country in the world. The pilot should be punished, he d
57 Douglas7Seas : Hey Dave, Ya gotta watch your blood pressure or you won't get your certificate when reapply. See ya, Dave
58 Post contains images HaveBlue : We're nuts, nice post In general, it seems hard to explain how he messed up this bad. He was an old guy, and NOT an instructor, but still. I don't tak
59 Atmx2000 : It's not simply that he did something wrong, he simply did not behave in composed manner, and put himself and his passenger at risk. If he had turned
60 TACAA320 : What a disgrace was 9/11. So many casualties. So many innocent people died. Our lifes changed forever since then. . Tedious? Well you have the right
61 PlanesNTrains : Thanks for your concern. Where I'm coming from is simple, and I certainly appreciate it if you or others disagree, but here it is: I come to this for
62 Post contains images Lilflyboy : Its always real funny to see how people start a forum on one subject, and then a little while later its completely off topic But anyways, didnt yall s
63 B744F : Now the military is taking a hint from politicians, and trying to make a big deal out of nothing to show people they are doing a good job. Government
64 EZEIZA : I agree, he did not behave in a composed manner and therefore he should recieve some sort of punishment, but the problem is that this small plane inc
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