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US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?  
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

With the possibility of making this Star Alliance member even bigger, how do you think the US/AW merger will affect United? Would a bigger US/AW compete against UAL? Or will it simple compliment their extensive Star Alliance route network?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

I was actually wondering the same thing. However, I don't think the US/HP merger would make it automatic for HP to join Star. Would be interesting to see though. As far as competing with UA, HP doesn't have a route network which is even close to UA. It's an airline with two major hubs, LAS and PHX. UA, on the other hand, has its big hubs at DEN and ORD, as well as an extensive network of international routes, which HP doesn't have.


A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6143 times:

I highly doubt it...UA has no trouble competing with HP on the west coast, and the merged airline would have little presense in DEN or ORD area...UA will hardly be affected by this. If it works out however, DL might have some issues on the east coast.

User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6127 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
UA has no trouble competing with HP on the west coast

That is funny. United Airlines, has had to do away with the Shuttle by United program, and in its place we are seeing more and more jungle jets!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
the merged airline would have little presense in DEN or ORD area

United is getting it from all angles. America West combined with US Airways would be serving Denver to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Combined from Chicago/ORD would be offering Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. That is five cities that United Airlines, will take a hit on. Less you not forget that United Airlines has had to pull the 757, 744, and 763 out of Las Vegas in favor of TED!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
DL might have some issues on the east coast

Actually, United Airlines, again would be the loser in this. Less you seem to have forgotten that US Airways has made a very nice fortress out of Washington/DCA, and has a very nice fleet of services from Washington/IAD was well. America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles?

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 1):
As far as competing with UA, HP doesn't have a route network which is even close to UA

Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Quoting Noise (Thread starter):
Would a bigger US/AW compete against UAL?

Yes, in both domestic and international!

US Airways serves FCO, MAN, DUB, SNN, VCE, and BCN. All of which would be sorely missed from the United Airlines code share agreement with US Airways!
US Airways would overnight compete against United Airlines in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Charlotte, Boston, Ft.Lauderdale, and New York.


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineDagell From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 6086 times:

Here's a recent discussion on the same topic

US/HP Merger Hurting United? (by Gkpetery Apr 20 2005 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 925 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

The industry re-structure has hardly got started. Perhaps America West will add United (or selected assets) later this year, or they may be shared across a couple of airlines.

User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5856 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
United Airlines, has had to do away with the Shuttle by United program, and in its place we are seeing more and more jungle jets!

The shuttle died with the dot com boom, it had nothing to do with HP. If anything, WN may have played a roll.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Actually, United Airlines, again would be the loser in this. Less you seem to have forgotten that US Airways has made a very nice fortress out of Washington/DCA, and has a very nice fleet of services from Washington/IAD was well. America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles?

IAD is one of UA's weakest hubs. Delta is very strong on the east and would be hit a lot harder, while UA has ORD, DEN to fall back on.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
United is getting it from all angles. America West combined with US Airways would be serving Denver to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Combined from Chicago/ORD would be offering Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. That is five cities that United Airlines, will take a hit on. Less you not forget that United Airlines has had to pull the 757, 744, and 763 out of Las Vegas in favor of TED!

Five cities. Oh boy, UA is sure to die now...like I said, LITTLE PRESENSE. I didn't say no presense.


User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

I would have to say that ANY airline that is still operating in the US is affecting the outcome of United. NW in the pacific, AA/DL/CO/US/NW in Europe, All LCC in the US, plus all the majors.....EVERYONE is affecting UA! I still believe in the idea of get fixed, or get gone! IF this proposed merger saves US than congradulations and you fixed it so keep operating....praying that a bancruptcy judge lets you stay in court protection so you don't have to compete equally with other airlines....you deserve to go under....and sooner more than later.

THIS ISN'T UA BASHING......THIS IS REALITY!

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
The shuttle died with the dot com boom

Nice Try... United Airlines dropped Shuttle by United post 9-11!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
nothing to do with HP

Yes, that is why HP and WN offer mainline LAX-PHX and UA is offering Express service!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
WN may have played a roll

Yes, along with partner in crime HP!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
IAD is one of UA's weakest hubs

Yes, that makes sense. United Airlines main European gateway is its weakest hub! And some people say that United Airlines management are effective  no 

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
UA has ORD, DEN to fall back on.

Correction.. F9 also has Denver. AA also has Chicago, as does WN/TZ at Midway.. United Airlines is not the sole hub airline in either city. You seem to have forgotten that American Airlines is building Chicago more and more, poising it for a very nice Asian expansion over the next 5-10 years.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Delta is very strong on the east

Delta Airlines has hubs at CVG/ATL/JFK, Focus Cities at BOS/FLL/MCO. US Airways, has Hubs at PIT/CLT/PHL, Focus Cities at FLL/DCA/BOS/LGA. American, has hubs at JFK/MIA, Focus Cities at BOS/RDU/LGA. Continental, has hubs at CLE/EWR. Southwest Airlines has a Hub at BWI. Focus Cities at MCO/FLL/PHL. Air Tran, has a Hub at ATL, Focus Cities at FLL/MCO/BWI. Jet Blue has a Hub at JFK, Focus Cities at IAD/BOS/FLL. All have a very commanding presence in the region. United Airlines has one of the weakest presences on the East Coast of any major U.S. airline!



Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

So what will this proposed airline be classified as LCC or legacy?


Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

Quoting CoTXDFW777AA (Reply 9):
LCC or legacy

LCC/Legacy - Domestic
Full Service/Legacy - International

The word Leagcy, by the way has a very broad use in the United States. Some refer to WN as a legacy, some refer to AS as a legacy. It seems to be more of an opinion than something set in stone!

Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Kahala777,
who is going to be your whipping boy when ual folds up??????my god you spend alot of energy on one airline....



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

Quoting CoTXDFW777AA (Reply 9):
So what will this proposed airline be classified as LCC or legacy?

Good question. Basically, I think the term "Legacy" refers to a major airline with a long history and relatively high costs with the emphasis on costs. So, I guess I would consider the new airline an LCC.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 11):
you spend alot of energy on one airline

We all have our likes and dislikes!


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

What i take to mean legacy is the same carriers that used to be referred to as the cartel carriers, being

United
USAirways
Delta
American
Continental
Alaska
America West
Northwest

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 14):
cartel carriers

Again, another term that has little or no solid standing!

Alaska Airlines a Cartel/Legacy?
America West Airlines a Cartel/Legacy?

If these two airlines are on the list, why would you not include Southwest Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, or Aloha Airlines?

Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Well, the last time I check TED was United. Anyone care to correct me?


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A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5592 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 16):
Anyone care to correct me

TED only offers certain markets on the West Coast.

DEN-LAS: Former Mainline - Faced competition from F9/HP
DEN-ONT: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9
DEN-PHX: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9/HP
DEN-RNO: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9/HP

LAX-LAS: Former Mainline - Faces competition from AA/NW/HP/WN

SFO-PHX: Former Mainline - Faces competition from HP
SFO-LAS: Former Mainline - Faces competition from HP

United Airlines has surrendered Mainline service to Express in the following markets on the West Coast.

SFO-RNO
SFO-ONT
SFO-PSP
SFO-MFR
SFO-EUG
SFO-GEG
SFO-BOI
SFO-PDX

LAX-OAK
LAX-PHX
LAX-SJC
LAX-SBA
LAX-SMF (Only 1 Mainline per day, 5 Express)

That is a lot of blows on the West Coast!  Wink


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5576 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Well, i've flown Alaska, United, and Southwest many times up and down the west coast. I can't remember the last time I flew America West. Afterall, Pheonix isn't exactly in between the Pacific Northwest and California. Can it be done? Of course, but I'd only do it if the fair was way lower than AS or WN.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Yes, that is why HP and WN offer mainline LAX-PHX and UA is offering Express service!

Well, I'd hope that HP and WN offered mainline LAX-PHX. WN only has mainline and PHX is the center of the universe to HP. For UA, PHX is a feeder to the Pacific, and the UAX ops can handle that, though obviously not as comfortably.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
WN may have played a roll



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Yes, along with partner in crime HP!

You make it sound like Batman and Robin. More like Shrek and Donkey. I remember when HP had services on the west coast separate from PHX and LAS. Where are they? Could UA and WN have had something to do with it?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 17):

SFO-RNO
SFO-ONT
SFO-PSP
SFO-MFR
SFO-EUG
SFO-GEG
SFO-BOI
SFO-PDX

LAX-OAK
LAX-PHX
LAX-SJC
LAX-SBA
LAX-SMF

And, I'm sorry, how many of those did HP compete in and drive UA under with?

With all due respect,

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Considering the massive systemwide codeshare between US Airways and United, I would say this merger is far more likely to hurt American Airlines, which doesn't have nearly as strong a domestic partner network. AA seems to be the odd man out with the DL+NW+CO and HP/US+UA alliances forming. I think they'll be stuck in that position as well, since this really leaves no other network carrier to merge or partner with.

-WGW2707


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5576 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting WGW2707 (Reply 19):
AA seems to be the odd man out with the DL+NW+CO and HP/US+UA alliances forming.

I haven't read everything, but I hadn't seen it said that the codeshare between UA and US would continue post-merger. I'm not sure if it would even be allowed, though NW+CO+DL was approved. If so, then I definately think the Caribbean/Central/South American market will be a great growth vehicle for US+HP. UA could continue to focus on the Pacific and Atlantic and possibly downsize their domestic ops a little. And Chicago/Denver would provide the necessary midwestern feed for them as well.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

Given the current attitudes of the US government when it comes to antitrust regulation, especially in the airline industry, I would be very suprised if the US+UA codeshare partnership was terminated, forcibly or otherwise.

-WGW2707


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Okay, so it looks like Air Canada is providing financing for the merged airline. Moreover, US will stay in Star Alliance. Therefore, it is likely that United will actually benefit from the merger, because they will gain access to America West's network through codeshare and alliance agreements that will most likely stay in place.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

The UA/US alliance, I assume, will be one of the main issues brought up for DOJ approval. I would expect it to be greatly scaled back to just ORD and DEN hubs and international routes for the other hubs.

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4381 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5248 times:

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 22):
they will gain access to America West's network through codeshare and alliance agreements that will most likely stay in place.

In other words, UA would be gaining access to nothing that it does not already possess, and would stand to LOSE customers to US/HP.



Live life to the fullest.
25 Post contains images Kahala777 : Ever heard of a place called Las Vegas, due East of Los Angeles! United Airlines, has not gone under yet... Unfortunately. America West has been whip
26 UA744Flagship : Why? The government hasn't disallowed SkyTeam NW/CO/DL from intra-US codeshares.
27 Gigneil : The merger press release indicated they'd be expanding their participation in Star Alliance. N
28 Planecrazy2 : Going back to the list you say UA has surrendered SFO-RNO to all express. I thought they still had one A319 arrive late at night and depart the next m
29 EA CO AS : America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles? HP flies to DCA from LAX? I don't think so... AS does, though. They're t
30 Travelin man : Totally agree with PlanesNTrains. HP is a non-entity out West (specifically from Los Angeles), unless you want to go to PHX. I'll fly WN, AS, AA, or
31 9844 : Listen when these two pigs finish slapping lip stick.They will both go under. AWA bad move...Like TECH, airline mergers NEVER work!
32 Potomac : i was looking for the data but couldn't track it down, but i recall information from MWAA about how IAD was actually one of UAs more profitable hubs.
33 Kdeg00 : Strange, but I don't remember flying express for any of my last 6 PDX-SFO flights.
34 Post contains images FriendlySkies : Not to burst your bubble, but LAS isn't exactly between Cali and the Pacific Northwest either. Tell me why the HELL UA should be flying anything else
35 Flashmeister : Corrections to the mainline-to-express "surrender" post: SFO-PDX is very much mainline. In fact, no express at all. DEN-EUG was also converted to expr
36 Post contains images PPVRA : Maybe they'll merge with UA next year PPVRA
37 Post contains images Bridogger6 : Oh I am sorry, last time I checked, HP has codeshares with NW, HA, QF, and BA to name a few.
38 StevenUhl777 : My friends who work for UA hate working there and told me that UA sucks. So, I hate them now, too. Besides that, I don't have any good reason. Signed
39 Trvlr : United doesn't have any agreements with America West. If USAirways stays in Star (which it claims it will), then I don't see the merged airline being
40 ScottB : Which was almost entirely due to Shuttle's inability to effectively compete with Southwest; it had almost nothing at all to do with Southwest. United
41 WeAreUnited : Love the facts ScottB. Glad someone knows what they're talking about.
42 Post contains images StevenUhl777 : ...And Kahala777 goes down in flames again... Better luck next time! :I ScottB: Welcome to my RU list...
43 ScottB : Correcting a blond moment I had while typing; correction is in bold:
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