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777 LAX-SYD?  
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2363 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Hello all!

I know that UA before pulling out of AKL had 772 service from AKL to LAX. Now, I know that the 777 has the range but is it allowed to fly LAX-SYD? Or is there a ETOPS problem? I also know that NZ will add their 777s to the Americas from New Zealand, but what about other airlines?

Can it work? And will any airline ever even consider such a route for the 777? Not that I am planning the death of UA, but if they are gone I would think that AA,CO, and/or DL, would like to jump on the chance.

Any thoughts, and answers are appreciated.  Smile


"The low fares airline."
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

Yes it could work!

The only airline that would maybe consider the route would be AA as CO and DL do not have west coast hubs!

AA could maybe fly LAX-SYD, but I don't think it would happen anytime soon!

NZ are planning to fly their 777's to SFO from AKL!

Rob!


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4512 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5808 times:

I thought that UA flew 744s to AKL at the time?

Anyway, LAX-SYD is possible with ETOPS 180 which is what the 772 is certified for, isn't it?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5807 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
Or is there a ETOPS problem? I also know that NZ will add their 777s to the Americas from New Zealand, but what about other airlines?

Not a major issue.... LAX-SYD can be flown with ETOPS 180


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5787 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
I thought that UA flew 744s to AKL at the time?


UA "downgraded" LAX-AKL from a 744 to a 772 for about 6 months before UA dropped the route entirely.

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Yes it could work!


AA could maybe fly LAX-SYD, but I don't think it would happen anytime soon!


Rob!

I agree, AA is just fine with the code-share arrangement with QF.


LAX-SYD is a high demand route, it seems that QF multiple 744s from LAX to SYD and other Australian destinations go out to capacity nearly everyday....thus, while there would not be a problem operating the 777 on the route, flights between the US and Australia are flown by the 744 for capacity reasons. Look for QF to use its A380s on the LAX-SYD/MEL routes for this reason.

Its been a long time since we heard about the proposed DFW-SYD route that was to be launched by either QF or AA (on a code-share basis) with 777-200LRs. Will it ever happen?


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5678 times:

AA would never encroach on QF's turf with the LAX-Australia flights. AA is doing quite well feeding QF's routes anyway.

DL and CO don't have west coast hubs and neither could spare the 777s for Australian routes anyway. Though I guess CO could conceivably run something out of HNL but then again they'd also be in competition with HA on that route.



PHX based
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

It would be hard to compete on a fare basis by only flying a 777-200ER.

N


User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Its been a long time since we heard about the proposed DFW-SYD route that was to be launched by either QF or AA (on a code-share basis) with 777-200LRs. Will it ever happen?

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, as it has been discussed in this forum before and QF and/or AA would probably go to ORD anyway.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

The B777-200ER cannot operate LAX-SYD with a commercially viable payload. The B777-200LR and B777-300ER can. It's not terribly difficult for an airline to get ETOPS 180 certification for the B777 which is all that's needed.

Note that SQ are expected to start this route soon, which will reduce or eliminate UA's profitability on this route. Since UA doesn't have the option of buying B777-300ER or any other aircraft while they are in Chapter 11, UA's only options are to either continue operating the B747-400 on this route or drop it entirely.


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
AA could maybe fly LAX-SYD, but I don't think it would happen anytime soon!

AA is in bed with QF and their codeshares. No need to use their 772 on that route.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):

UA "downgraded" LAX-AKL from a 744 to a 772 for about 6 months before UA dropped the route entirely.

Agreed.

Send QF to DFW!!!  Smile

Regards.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5415 times:

When is SQ starting the service?

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5408 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 10):
When is SQ starting the service?

To DFW? There are no plans for such service


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 10):
When is SQ starting the service?

SQ are awaiting final permission from the Australian government to begin SYD-LAX. Since SQ won't have B777-300ERs yet, I expect the route will be operated using the B747-400.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
The B777-200ER cannot operate LAX-SYD with a commercially viable payload.

That's not true, a 656K 772ER would be able to op the route just fine on a typical basis, so far as profit-potential payload goes.

In the case of UA, on the other hand:
doing the route with 648K PW4090s wasn't exactly their optimum choice.


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

More than likely when SQ get permission to operate it will be initially from Secondary cities (MEL/BNE etc). The Australian government is very protective giving SQ rights to operate SYD to USA, and will most likely be part of a second tranche of rights down the track IMHO. SQ obviously are dissapointed at this and will exercise full force to get rights to SYD.

This hasn't been mentioned, if QF order the 773ER/772LR later this year, what would be the chances of QF performing the hub buster philosophy that GEoff Dixon was talking about last month and using it for new city pairs.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

how about SFO-LAX...besides UA..there aren't any direct flights to SYD/MEL from the Bay Area...........one would need to fly down to LAX from SFO/SJC/OAK to fly a competing carrier (or fly NZ from SFO to New Zealand) .......looks like UA has a monopoly on this direct flight from SFO..


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineOzair From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 849 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
In the case of UA, on the other hand:
doing the route with 648K PW4090s wasn't exactly their optimum choice.

Agree, they used to fly out of LAX heavily weight restricted, not only due to distance but weather as well. The storms that would occur in the South pacific were often a cause for concern.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
Since SQ won't have B777-300ERs yet, I expect the route will be operated using the B747-400.

I would imagine SQ would use their 744s at the earliest opportunity even if they had spare 773ERs. They have a greater seat capacity which on SYD-LAX would benefit them greatly! I cannot see them requiring too long to gain the customer base required for the 744, and the SQ CEO has previously mentioned the route as an A380 option if rights are granted.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 14):
This hasn't been mentioned, if QF order the 773ER/772LR later this year, what would be the chances of QF performing the hub buster philosophy that GEoff Dixon was talking about last month and using it for new city pairs.

What city pairs really offer anything better than LAX. SFO is a possibility but JFK would only ever see a premium service similar to SQ's A345 services. I don't think this would effect their LAX runs in a significant manner. Can't see DFW, just not enough demand for a long run like that.


User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

Just out of curiosity, how many airlines in the world are ETOPS 207 approved and who are they?


It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17):
Just out of curiosity, how many airlines in the world are ETOPS 207 approved and who are they?

FAA gave a 15% increase from ETOPS 180 to ETOPS 207 to UA in 2001 for their T7 service across the Pacific.

Regards.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
That's not true, a 656K 772ER would be able to op the route just fine on a typical basis, so far as profit-potential payload goes.

In the case of UA, on the other hand:
doing the route with 648K PW4090s wasn't exactly their optimum choice.

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of UA's B777-200ERs.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17):
Just out of curiosity, how many airlines in the world are ETOPS 207 approved and who are they?

Tough to say, considering that ETOPS207 is only granted on a case-by-case individual basis.


User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

IIRC, SQ also stated the desire to operate from SYD to other US citiesbesides LAX. I could see SFO, HNL, ORD, or NYC as possibilities if SQ orders the 772LR as anticipated.


LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3328 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 21):
IIRC, SQ also stated the desire to operate from SYD to other US citiesbesides LAX. I could see SFO, HNL, ORD, or NYC as possibilities if SQ orders the 772LR as anticipated.

HNL??? probably the most unlikely, as I don't think there's enough front of plane travel to justify it.

I would think SQ's wishlist looks a little like this;
1. SYD-LAX
2. SYD-SFO
3. MEL/BNE-LAX
4.MEL/BNE-SFO
5. SYD-NYC
6.SYD-ORD

Anyone care to comment?
The above list takes into consideration possible flying distances with SQ's current fleet, as well as possible domestic link with UA over LAX and SFO.


User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 899 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

6th Freedom, you have given me a good laugh with that SQ wish list !!!

They will be lucky to get the rights to do US flights from Australia. Far more likely will be Virgin Blue operating the route under whatever guise they come up with long before SQ will ever get the rights. In fact I would go on to say that SQ 744's will fly the route, but they will be wearing Pacific Blue colours or whatever they end up calling themselves.
RL


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

I can't see SQ operating BNE-USA for the same reason that I can't see SQ operating SYD-HNL: these are low-yield markets. If SIN-HNL is not interesting for SQ, it's difficult to imagine that SYD-HNL would be interesting.

The only routes I can see interesting SQ are:
SYD-LAX
MEL-LAX
SYD-SFO
SYD-JFK
Given the need for daily service, I'm not sure any of the latter three would support the addition of more than B777-200 capacity.


25 6thfreedom : Really? And what are your thoughts on a possible SQ purchase of QF shares within say... two years? Beyond all possibility? I would like to know your
26 Krisyyz : AC is planning YVR-SYD when its B772LR's arrive. Krisyyz
27 Aussie747 : According to my Coporate Sales Manager at AC in Australia just this morning. YVR-SYD will be the first route for the 772LR
28 Jupiter2 : 6thFreedom, SQ buying into QF is a lot more realsitic than some of those routes you proposed for SQ. If they do buy into QF that will be the last you
29 6thfreedom : When is this due to happen? And does this mean that MEL services will recommence via HNL with a B763???
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