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FT: HP/US - Plus 20 X A350  
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11649 times:
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Don't shoot the messenger. This is what the Financial Times is saying:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/936e1826-c565-11d9-87fd-00000e2511c8.html

cheers

mariner


aeternum nauta
89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 3136 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11621 times:

It'd be good to see how this order takes on Airbus. If they give the A350 a "boost". Let's hope so. The industry needs the competition, needs the improvements

If this is order is true, I hope they can afford to pay the 20 A350s and not default on them.

Great news for Airbus.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11607 times:

This HP/US thing is getting stranger and stranger.

AC, fresh from its own financial mess, is going to invest?

And, just what a HP/US needs, another 20 new aircraft.....

I simply dont understand any of this.

(To Mariner - I really thought this was a joke.....thanks for the post and the link.)


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11588 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

If you want a new fleet, go bankrupt and then wait a couple of years. Seems to be the new wave in North America.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11553 times:

This could make things interesting.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11545 times:

From the article

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
For some observers, that suggests double trouble. As one former senior airline executive puts it, “it is like combining two one-legged men. They are not going to be a track star, even if they are ambulatory.”

These are my thoughts exactly. Some consolidation will be nice, but I can't see how US/HP will be a strong performer near-term. It's obvious that in many ways, the merged airline would compete directly with WN in several markets. However, they won't be able to stop WN's growth in the east for some time, WN already has a stronger presence in LAS/PHX, and WN is opperating on much more solid footing. There isn't much of a way to tippie-toe around that chunk of domestic traffic.

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
Moreover, it will make the first credible order for the A350, as the new company is poised to order 20 of the new mid-sized aircraft.

Now where is that coming from? Seems possible given the Airbus crediting and US A330 preference, but the way the article just drops that line makes it seem like US/HP have already announced plans for new airplanes. Have I missed something??


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11540 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3):
If you want a new fleet, go bankrupt and then wait a couple of years. Seems to be the new wave in North America.

I´ve been amazed by this several times. Not only in the US. But also Air Canada, Air India, Swissair/Swiss, Air France and Malaysia to name a few in the last decade.

Rumors of UA considering to take over Atlas are in the same category..


User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

I hope that no matter what the outcome is, that everyone involved is secure with their jobs. If the merger takes place, I wish all employees the best and hope that the seniority lists are merged in terms of seniority, rather than stapling one list to the bottom of the other. Who knows how this will play out. Let's wish everyone the best.

Cheers!

AirplaneBoy


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2071 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11501 times:

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 7):
I hope that no matter what the outcome is, that everyone involved is secure with their jobs.

I read an article yesterday which indicated union employees would mostly be safe but that some salaried and management employees may be let go.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11453 times:

If this new combined carrier can even muster the finances to buy 20 Airbus A350s, and then lasts long enough to actually take delivery of them, I will be thoroughly surprised and impressed.

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11361 times:

The answer is in the article.

Airbus will be providing financial support.

Also do HP/US have any routes requiring 9100nm range?
The 350 is not designed for short haul flying.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11321 times:

Interesting that they would choose the A350 because of its purpose to fly long-haul routes. Maybe the A350 will fly for US Airways on their flights to Europe, to places like Madrid, London, Manchester, Barcelona, Venice etc..

And maybe even HP would start long-haul flights once again, or maybe a flight to Hawaii from Phoenix.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11271 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
Also do HP/US have any routes requiring 9100nm range?
The 350 is not designed for short haul flying.

Nor was it designed to fly 9100nm, i don't think any plane is.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11274 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
Also do HP/US have any routes requiring 9100nm range?
The 350 is not designed for short haul flying.

It's also not designed for 9,100 nm jaunts. I was under the impression that the A358 had a target range of 8,600 nm and the A359 had a target range of about 7,700 nm.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):

I´ve been amazed by this several times. Not only in the US. But also Air Canada, Air India, Swissair/Swiss, Air France and Malaysia to name a few in the last decade.

Crazy trend  idea 


User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11217 times:

I still don't see the advantage of a 9100nm plane on a 5000nm flight. PHX-europe is only about 5500nm and PHX/LAX-to HNL is only 3000nm.....Where is the need for ultra-longrange aircraft. They would be better off getting someones used a330's at a great low trade-in rate than buying new planes.

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3965 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11213 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
WN already has a stronger presence in LAS/PHX

Southwest does not come close in Phoenix, and they are edged out in LAS by HP as well. Remember, WN is all mainline carriers, while with HP you have to count in their Mesa carriers who fly as America West Express. Sure those RJs only fly 86 people, but 86 people is 86 people, and that's still 2/3 of a 737. All together HP has about double the flights in and out of Phoenix that WN does.

America West practically owns Phoenix, and LAS is following the same way.


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4429 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11137 times:

The only reason that the combined carrier would order A350 is because Airbus would be providing financial help to the merged carrier.

If Airbus were to provide financing, and then HP/US order the 787, it would look like a stab in Airbus' back. It certainly is a smart way for Airbus to win an order for an inferior airplane.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11112 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
For some observers, that suggests double trouble. As one former senior airline executive puts it, “it is like combining two one-legged men. They are not going to be a track star, even if they are ambulatory.”

Great quote, lets combine one struggling airline and one that has just managed to turn itself around and together they can both flounder together.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11231 times:

>> America West practically owns Phoenix, and LAS is following the same way. <<

Okay. I posted this elsewgere. But people conveniently elected to ignore facts.

The "ownership" of a certain market has more to do with O&D passengers...passengers who either started their journey in Phoenix or have Phoenix as their ultimate destination....than it does how many folks change planes there.

America West's penetration of the Phoenix market is not influenced by how many people get on in Yuma, fly the little Mesa plane to Phoenix, get off, and get on America West headed to Raleigh-Durham. Right now HP has the contract fare for govt travel between El Paso and Seattle....so every single passenger traveling on govt business from El Paso to Seattle flies El Paso to Phoenix, changes planes, and then flies from Phoenix to Seattle.

None of this has anything to do with how much of the Phoenix market America West has or doesn't have.

So, let's look at O&D traffic, shall we? from the last DOT numbers posted on the web.

Summary: There are 68 markets in and out of Phoenix that generate 100 psgrs per day.

Of those 68 markets, WN is the market share leader in 34 of them and HP is the market share leader in 17.

The 34 markets where Southwest is largest generate an average of 740 passengers per day and Southwest has a mean market share of 61.2% These markets average 1080 miles in length with a mean yield of 15.2 cents per mile. In the 17 markets where HP is the market share leader, there are an average of 572.3 passengers per day and HP carries, on average, 45.2% of them. Their average length of haul is 1502 miles at an average yield of 13.5 cents per mile.

CITY CITY DIST PSGRS AVG FARE LGST AL MKTSH
CHI PHX 1444 3185 $123 UA 23.5
LAS PHX 256 2552 $72 WN 78.0
PHX SAN 304 2228 $74 WN 77.0
LAX PHX 370 2114 $74 WN 72.1
NYC PHX 2153 1965 $179 HP 38.7
DEN PHX 602 1668 $134 HP 34.6
PHX SEA 1107 1649 $136 AS 40.8
PHX SNA 338 1615 $79 WN 48.5
ABQ PHX 328 1262 $71 WN 85.7
OAK PHX 646 1248 $114 WN 70.5
BUR PHX 369 1230 $75 WN 72.6
MSP PHX 1276 1219 $150 NW 47.7
PHX SLC 507 1168 $104 WN 57.2
ONT PHX 325 1142 $75 WN 84.0
PHX SJC 621 1139 $116 WN 60.2
PHX PDX 1009 1131 $133 AS 35.2
DTW PHX 1671 1044 $151 NW 46.2
PHX SMF 647 992 $114 WN 63.2
DFW PHX 879 959 $220 AA 48.5
PHL PHX 2075 936 $153 HP 34.7
PHX SFO 651 912 $115 UA 50.2
BWI PHX 1998 858 $156 WN 46.9
HOU PHX 1028 727 $163 WN 38.4
MCI PHX 1044 713 $123 WN 59.4
IND PHX 1489 688 $118 HP 32.5
BOS PHX 2300 647 $175 HP 26.2
PHX STL 1262 643 $147 WN 58.0
PHX WAS 1979 632 $213 HP 48.4
ATL PHX 1587 564 $251 DL 50.3
PHX RNO 601 542 $108 WN 52.8
OMA PHX 1037 518 $127 WN 46.0
ELP PHX 347 512 $70 WN 83.5
MCO PHX 1848 500 $159 HP 34.7
CMH PHX 1671 474 $154 HP 38.7
CLE PHX 1737 461 $165 HP 37.9
AUS PHX 872 438 $145 WN 50.6
MKE PHX 1460 423 $162 YX 42.6
PHX RDU 1891 402 $140 WN 42.1
BDL PHX 2213 357 $154 HP 24.4
PHX TPA 1788 351 $159 WN 41.1
PHX SAT 843 345 $145 WN 54.6
PHX PVD 2277 331 $154 WN 68.8
FLL PHX 1972 326 $167 HP 31.3
PHX PIT 1813 305 $180 US 51.7
BNA PHX 1448 301 $172 WN 73.9
PHX GEG 1020 275 $156 HP 64.8
BUF PHX 1912 255 $149 WN 48.9
MSY PHX 1301 241 $155 WN 44.6
DSM PHX 1149 239 $149 NW 28.4
BOI PHX 735 225 $138 HP 54.5
OKC PHX 833 218 $159 WN 77.8
CLT PHX 1774 216 $223 US 42.7
PHX TUL 935 209 $149 WN 85.4
MHT PHX 2279 176 $167 WN 37.6
MIA PHX 1972 175 $185 HP 35.9
SDF PHX 1506 175 $154 WN 62.4
LGB PHX 355 165 $88 HP 99.1
ORF PHX 2029 147 $180 WN 20.3
ALB PHX 2159 141 $174 US 22.8
ISP PHX 2189 131 $161 WN 90.8
COS PHX 551 131 $194 HP 89.3
GRR PHX 1574 129 $154 NW 53.3
BHM PHX 1455 124 $164 WN 56.7
CVG PHX 1569 122 $244 DL 83.3
LIT PHX 1136 121 $159 WN 73.4
MEM PHX 1263 118 $216 NW 42.7
JAX PHX 1786 108 $194 DL 30.5
PHX ICT 870 102 $173 HP 43.1

>>Southwest does not come close in Phoenix, and they are edged out in LAS by HP as well. <<

I will agree that it isn't close in Phoenix. In terms of actual Phoenix traffic, Southwest has a clear lead.

And Southwest has about 2-1 edge in total passengers in and out of Las Vegas. This article from the LV newspaper during January '05 highlighted traffic stats for Calendar Year 2004:

>>Southwest Airlines was McCarran's busiest carrier last year, serving just under 13 million passengers, a 10.8 percent increase from the 11.7 million in 2003. Southwest also flew just over 1 million passengers in and out of McCarran during December.

America West, the airport's second-busiest airline, increased its passenger count 12.5 percent for the year, shepherding 6.8 million passengers, a jump from 6.1 million in 2003. <<

Listen, friends, I harbor no ill will towards HP although I have made no secret that I prefer WN to all carriers. Nonetheless, I try to post accurate stuff and provide sources for data and information.

Logging on and posting someething to the effect that "HP is #1 at Phoenix and Las Vegas" might be what you want to be true, but posting it on an internet message site and pretending it is true does not make it true.

All that does is confuse people.

Tell the truth, document your sources, and call things like they are, not like you might wish they were. That isn't too much to ask.


User currently offlineDhefty From United States of America, joined May 2005, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11070 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
Airbus will be providing financial support.

And I can see why they might try this rescue. Airbus would suffer a number of cancellations if the two carriers fail. On order are the following:

o 15 A318 (AWA)
o 08 A319 (AWA)
o 11 A320 (AWA)
o 06 A320 (USA)
o 13 A321 (USA)
o 10 A330 (USA)

That's about $3-3.5 billion in firm booked orders. I very much doubt if Airbus wants that cash flow to go away, considering the massive drain they are facing in the next few years on the A380 and A350 programs. Airbus, therefore, has a major vested interest in this merger plan. Plus the fact that their cash cow, the A330, is facing huge pressure from the roaring success of the B787 introduction. GE as well, being the supplier of the engines, has a vested interest in a USA/AWA merger. Maybe if the price were right, the A350 might have a chance. On the other hand, the combined carrier would have an Airbus fleet of 216 aircraft (plus the above-mentioned 63 on order, for a total of 279). In addition, it would have 194 active, but generally older Boeing aircraft. A merger might work if GE and Airbus kicked in enough working capital. Long term, who knows? Right now it looks like a gamble.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11055 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 16):
The only reason that the combined carrier would order A350 is because Airbus would be providing financial help to the merged carrier.

 bored 

If so they probably made them a better deal then Boeings leasing company, Boeing Capital, that also provides asset-backed leasing and lending services for airlines and governmental customers.


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1907 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11038 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 16):
It certainly is a smart way for Airbus to win an order for an inferior airplane.

Brace yourselves!! You've shouted the I-word...  duck 

BTW, how can you know if a plane is inferior if it hasn't even flown... Read the article in Flight International...

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4429 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10994 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 20):
If so they probably made them a better deal then Boeings leasing company, Boeing Capital, that also provides asset-backed leasing and lending services for airlines and governmental customers.

Possibly. If the leasing deal ends up being cheaper than the overall savings through 787 efficiency gains then that very well could be the reason why.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10979 times:
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I don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and so won't link it, but here is a summary of what they are saying:

http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_...d=dji-00012120050515&date=20050515

Noting the possible/potential involvement of Air Canada.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10974 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3):
go bankrupt and then wait a couple of years

It is an American Ideal! Donald Trump, Continental Airlines, United Airlines, Eastern Airlines, TWA and so on!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
just what a HP/US needs, another 20 new aircraft

Yes, for a thing called expansion!


Regards - Kahala777


25 Dutchjet : I disagree, its not about expansion, what does US/HP need A350s for, the very popular Phoenix-Venice or Las Vegas-Copenhagen routes? This deal is all
26 Atmx2000 : More likely it is an attempt to ensure that Airbus retains a foothold in the American market and doesn't lose customers that seem to be moving in an
27 Kahala777 : In the works. America West is getting the 757-200 prepared for service to Hawai'i. America West, has wanted South America for a very long time. Ameri
28 Dhefty : - Because the merged carrier would become their largest US customer, - Because they would prevent a flood of used Airbus aircraft, - Because they nee
29 AirFrnt : Airbus has a huge set of fiscal exposures with the possibilitity of HP or US going away. They not only have planes to be delivered to US, but they are
30 Kahala777 : In your little article. You seem to have forgotten the pax numbers of America West Airlines for service to: International: MEX/ACA/ZIH/CUN/PVR/MZT/SJ
31 PHXinterrupted : Jesus, if this report is true, it's a hell of a way for Airbus to sell planes. This is a doomed merger, and I think Airbus should just cut its losses
32 DfwRevolution : Look again... many of those are on the list of PHX markets with over 100 passengers a day. MSP PHX 1276 1219 $150 NW 47.7 BOS PHX 2300 647 $175 HP 26
33 TxAgKuwait : >>In your little article. You seem to have forgotten the pax numbers of America West Airlines for service to:
34 Flyboyaz : Yes and I'm sure everyone is tripping over themselves to read your posts...maybe he didn't see it. I looks like a dizzying mess if you ask me, I didn
35 Aloha717200 : I agree completely. The 787 is the superior product when matched against the A350, based on most of what we've seen so far in commentary from airline
36 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : By the way, if you dispute the city pair numbers posted, the percentages posted, and/or the reasoning behind them, then please share your data. A wel
37 DfwRevolution : Suit yourself... just don't bitch if you're proven wrong.
38 Kahala777 : More than United Airlines... Americas Bankrupt Black Eye? Regards - Kahala777
39 HZ747300 : Well said. How can UA be floating rumors about a 7E7 order with the self-inflicted mess they put themselves in???
40 Flyboyaz : Gasp...how rude! I thought Texans was supposed to be friendly...LOL. I didn't make the claim either so I wasn't proven wrong. It's called information
41 PlanesNTrains : I'm reminded of a post in another thread by Mariner where he basically says that pointing at the competition's bad condition doesn't really change th
42 PlanesNTrains : Well, it seems on A.net that if you don't post your facts, ten people will post a "What is your source?" or "Prove it!" response. At least he spared
43 Post contains links DfwRevolution : You're being rediculous: he proved a point, and when you are asserting a claim, you typically provide evidence to back your assertion. What bullshit
44 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : You have to wonder about the validity of an article that includes misspelled words. If By Caroline Daniel in Chicago won't take the time to use spell
45 RipleyD : Airbus bankrolling the A350s could be a strategic move, in part, to keep a presence in the 200-300 seat airplane segment of the North American market.
46 Post contains links Flyboyaz : No silly, I was referring to the article that this thread is supposed to be about. LOL America West is the largest carrier in PHX. We have the most d
47 Mark777300 : I'm sorry but I would have to question this whole thing from the begining. Why in the world would Airbus invest money into this merger? Do we all beli
48 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Unfortunately there is a long time to go for the EIS of the A350. A lot can happen, and Airbus might be taking a large gamble here to preserve their
49 Mariner : Um - Airbus is not the only one involved in this., Not one word about GECAS, the supposed prime movers. They do know a thing or three about aircraft f
50 Art : I don't think it is smart to build an inferior plane. Going to extraordinary lengths to procure such an order is not smart either. Financing the purc
51 ConcordeBoy : No plane in service is.... and that includes the (crappy) A345. The 772LR will have 9420nm range, if ordered to its maximum performance capability ho
52 Flyboyaz : Wow...that is really amazing. The only problem I would have is being on a flight that would take up all that range!! hehe
53 Starrion : It makes sense for Airbus because it prevents the dumping of large numbers of US aircraft on the market, keeps the US orderbook active and gives a cre
54 AirbusDriver : How do you know?
55 PhilSquares : The only problem is neither HP nor US has any route authority to either Asia or Australia. I don't see NW selling back the route authority they bough
56 DfwRevolution : While neither here nor there... the A340-500 is far from a stellar long-haul aircraft. Performance wise, it is thoroughly owned by the 772LR.
57 Commavia : Agreed. Airbus providing financing to any merged HP-US airline is purely strategic. They know that they have completely struck out with the A350 worl
58 JBirdAV8r : "Haemorrhaged" is correct as well. "AE" or "ae" is a ligature, which aren't very common in American English.[Edited 2005-05-16 04:27:13]
59 HPRamper : I disagree, it is risky but I smell an educated gamble, not desperate scrabbling.
60 RJ111 : True, in reality though, i doubt they actually envisioned it flying 9100nm long routes. And for now it seems QF agree.[Edited 2005-05-16 04:28:22]
61 Ken777 : I think Airbus and others are trying to put something together that works. It would work for GE in that they can reduce their risk and also sell engin
62 Post contains images Kahala777 : Any airline can enter New Zealand/Australia market! ?????? You mean Northwest Airlines, former mess made in Australia is laughable at best and a smea
63 LegendDC9 : With all the discussions and speculations that have been going on over the past month or so, no-one has ever mentioned the possibility of Airbus comin
64 AirbusDriver : Well you think whatever you want but I think it's I think it's a great airplane and would take it over the 777LR any day to fly over water...
65 Galapagapop : Even current US needs more planes for long haul they really could use 10 332/333's right now to help out in Europe out of PHL. A merged carrier has a
66 Rj777 : I thought the A318s were already cancelled!?
67 Flyboyaz : NW purchased (or whatever they do) HP's HNL-NGO route when we dumped it after the bankruptcy.
68 PhilSquares : Last time I looked those markets had capacity controls. They're called bilateral agreements. I am not sure about the NZ market, but there is only ope
69 United737522 : I don't get it, why would Airbus spend millions to develop an aircraft that only one group of people MAY want to order and still faces fierce competit
70 Bridogger6 : They are... well changed into A319's anyway.
71 BlackKnight : 1- The 787's are selling like hot cakes. 2- Boeing does not have to give the airlines money advances to sell the 787. 3- Maintenance costs of the A35
72 M27 : If the details of this rumor are essentially true, what I'm wondering then is how other airlines are going to regard this? If Airbus is going to becom
73 PlanesNTrains : Well, I actually agree with you. But I guess I interpret a gamble as being somewhat desperate. Afterall, why gamble with all that is at stake unless
74 Post contains links Mariner : My reaction would be similar if it were Boeing or Airbus - which is that (i) I don't know what is actually happening and (ii) it seems to me to be bu
75 EA CO AS : Quoting HPRamper (Reply 59): I disagree, it is risky but I smell an educated gamble, not desperate scrabbling. Well, I actually agree with you. But I
76 Mariner : And GECAS are trying to relieve themselves of about $1 billion of exposure to US Airways. No desperation there? cheers mariner
77 PlanesNTrains : I understand your point, but I guess we'll have to wait to see the details. All along I've kinda thought the merger/financing would include some new
78 Dhefty : No. If you look at the latest orders list (March 2005, pp. 1) on the Airbus website, the 15 A318's for AWA are still listed as firm orders. If you go
79 M27 : Mariner: Thanks for your response. I agree, we don't know enough to make any conclusions yet. You will note I did start with if. I agree with this. GE
80 Atmx2000 : Of course there is. GECAS is keeping US alive to avoid having to deal with financial repercussions of it going under. I can understand Airbus trying
81 Mariner : But if the Arizona Republic is to be believed, then it isn't Airbus trying to bail US out - any more than Air Wisconsin, say, or Republic. Nor do we
82 Atmx2000 : Probably because there is no explanation for how this is going to help either airline.
83 Mariner : But - as I said - the tone has changed. The financial boards are now more upbeat, since the FT story. cheers mariner
84 UAL-Fan : Colleen Barrett was right......they are on drugs!
85 DeltaA380 : Do we have the final numbers for what the A350 will be capable of or is this still in the works? Isn't Airbus working to improve on the 787's competi
86 PM : I'm not sure they've ever said that they "need" it. But if there are cheap loans on offer, which company wouldn't take them? They'd be mad not to. In
87 Sydscott : Well that's not quite how it went by why argue the semantics. NW tried to pick up Japanese passengers when they were restricted to at least 50% of pa
88 SN-A330 : Hi all, This thread has gone off topic and will be archived. Regards SN-A330 forum moderator
89 Revelation : I think the other way of looking at it is HP is a relatively healthy (by US airlines standards) entity whereas US is obviously not, and by merging th
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China LoI 20 A350-XWB, "To Buy 150 A320" posted Thu Oct 26 2006 05:37:08 by PanAm_DC10
HP/US Realignment Of A/C Through Merger posted Mon Sep 11 2006 22:38:46 by Flyboy7974
SQ Order 20 X A350-900XWB & 9 X A380s posted Fri Jul 21 2006 11:49:20 by PanAm_DC10
HP/US Into ATL posted Sat May 27 2006 01:09:58 by ATLAaron
Why US Airways Ordered A350? posted Wed May 24 2006 18:58:18 by Scoljet
HP/US Fleet Merger posted Tue May 23 2006 22:09:21 by Tzadik
HP/US Bankruptcy History posted Sun May 7 2006 23:29:21 by AirframeAS
Is HP/US Keeping Special Livery 757's posted Sun Apr 30 2006 09:22:59 by Jacks757