DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11545 times:
From the article
Quoting Mariner (Thread starter): For some observers, that suggests double trouble. As one former senior airline executive puts it, “it is like combining two one-legged men. They are not going to be a track star, even if they are ambulatory.”
These are my thoughts exactly. Some consolidation will be nice, but I can't see how US/HP will be a strong performer near-term. It's obvious that in many ways, the merged airline would compete directly with WN in several markets. However, they won't be able to stop WN's growth in the east for some time, WN already has a stronger presence in LAS/PHX, and WN is opperating on much more solid footing. There isn't much of a way to tippie-toe around that chunk of domestic traffic.
Quoting Mariner (Thread starter): Moreover, it will make the first credible order for the A350, as the new company is poised to order 20 of the new mid-sized aircraft.
Now where is that coming from? Seems possible given the Airbus crediting and US A330 preference, but the way the article just drops that line makes it seem like US/HP have already announced plans for new airplanes. Have I missed something??
AirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11520 times:
I hope that no matter what the outcome is, that everyone involved is secure with their jobs. If the merger takes place, I wish all employees the best and hope that the seniority lists are merged in terms of seniority, rather than stapling one list to the bottom of the other. Who knows how this will play out. Let's wish everyone the best.
AlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11321 times:
Interesting that they would choose the A350 because of its purpose to fly long-haul routes. Maybe the A350 will fly for US Airways on their flights to Europe, to places like Madrid, London, Manchester, Barcelona, Venice etc..
And maybe even HP would start long-haul flights once again, or maybe a flight to Hawaii from Phoenix.
WingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11217 times:
I still don't see the advantage of a 9100nm plane on a 5000nm flight. PHX-europe is only about 5500nm and PHX/LAX-to HNL is only 3000nm.....Where is the need for ultra-longrange aircraft. They would be better off getting someones used a330's at a great low trade-in rate than buying new planes.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
Southwest does not come close in Phoenix, and they are edged out in LAS by HP as well. Remember, WN is all mainline carriers, while with HP you have to count in their Mesa carriers who fly as America West Express. Sure those RJs only fly 86 people, but 86 people is 86 people, and that's still 2/3 of a 737. All together HP has about double the flights in and out of Phoenix that WN does.
America West practically owns Phoenix, and LAS is following the same way.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11112 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5): Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
For some observers, that suggests double trouble. As one former senior airline executive puts it, “it is like combining two one-legged men. They are not going to be a track star, even if they are ambulatory.”
Great quote, lets combine one struggling airline and one that has just managed to turn itself around and together they can both flounder together.
TxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11231 times:
>> America West practically owns Phoenix, and LAS is following the same way. <<
Okay. I posted this elsewgere. But people conveniently elected to ignore facts.
The "ownership" of a certain market has more to do with O&D passengers...passengers who either started their journey in Phoenix or have Phoenix as their ultimate destination....than it does how many folks change planes there.
America West's penetration of the Phoenix market is not influenced by how many people get on in Yuma, fly the little Mesa plane to Phoenix, get off, and get on America West headed to Raleigh-Durham. Right now HP has the contract fare for govt travel between El Paso and Seattle....so every single passenger traveling on govt business from El Paso to Seattle flies El Paso to Phoenix, changes planes, and then flies from Phoenix to Seattle.
None of this has anything to do with how much of the Phoenix market America West has or doesn't have.
So, let's look at O&D traffic, shall we? from the last DOT numbers posted on the web.
Summary: There are 68 markets in and out of Phoenix that generate 100 psgrs per day.
Of those 68 markets, WN is the market share leader in 34 of them and HP is the market share leader in 17.
The 34 markets where Southwest is largest generate an average of 740 passengers per day and Southwest has a mean market share of 61.2% These markets average 1080 miles in length with a mean yield of 15.2 cents per mile. In the 17 markets where HP is the market share leader, there are an average of 572.3 passengers per day and HP carries, on average, 45.2% of them. Their average length of haul is 1502 miles at an average yield of 13.5 cents per mile.
>>Southwest does not come close in Phoenix, and they are edged out in LAS by HP as well. <<
I will agree that it isn't close in Phoenix. In terms of actual Phoenix traffic, Southwest has a clear lead.
And Southwest has about 2-1 edge in total passengers in and out of Las Vegas. This article from the LV newspaper during January '05 highlighted traffic stats for Calendar Year 2004:
>>Southwest Airlines was McCarran's busiest carrier last year, serving just under 13 million passengers, a 10.8 percent increase from the 11.7 million in 2003. Southwest also flew just over 1 million passengers in and out of McCarran during December.
America West, the airport's second-busiest airline, increased its passenger count 12.5 percent for the year, shepherding 6.8 million passengers, a jump from 6.1 million in 2003. <<
Listen, friends, I harbor no ill will towards HP although I have made no secret that I prefer WN to all carriers. Nonetheless, I try to post accurate stuff and provide sources for data and information.
Logging on and posting someething to the effect that "HP is #1 at Phoenix and Las Vegas" might be what you want to be true, but posting it on an internet message site and pretending it is true does not make it true.
All that does is confuse people.
Tell the truth, document your sources, and call things like they are, not like you might wish they were. That isn't too much to ask.
Dhefty From United States of America, joined May 2005, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11070 times:
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10): Airbus will be providing financial support.
And I can see why they might try this rescue. Airbus would suffer a number of cancellations if the two carriers fail. On order are the following:
o 15 A318 (AWA)
o 08 A319 (AWA)
o 11 A320 (AWA)
o 06 A320 (USA)
o 13 A321 (USA)
o 10 A330 (USA)
That's about $3-3.5 billion in firm booked orders. I very much doubt if Airbus wants that cash flow to go away, considering the massive drain they are facing in the next few years on the A380 and A350 programs. Airbus, therefore, has a major vested interest in this merger plan. Plus the fact that their cash cow, the A330, is facing huge pressure from the roaring success of the B787 introduction. GE as well, being the supplier of the engines, has a vested interest in a USA/AWA merger. Maybe if the price were right, the A350 might have a chance. On the other hand, the combined carrier would have an Airbus fleet of 216 aircraft (plus the above-mentioned 63 on order, for a total of 279). In addition, it would have 194 active, but generally older Boeing aircraft. A merger might work if GE and Airbus kicked in enough working capital. Long term, who knows? Right now it looks like a gamble.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4429 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10994 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 20): If so they probably made them a better deal then Boeings leasing company, Boeing Capital, that also provides asset-backed leasing and lending services for airlines and governmental customers.
Possibly. If the leasing deal ends up being cheaper than the overall savings through 787 efficiency gains then that very well could be the reason why.