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Oldest Airline In The World.. Very Close..  
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

The oldest airline in the world, KLM and the second, AVIANCA, were really close on the dates they were established and the dates they made their first flights, look at this:

KLM's foundation: October 7, 1919
AVIANCA's foundation:December 5, 1919

KLM's first flight: May 17, 1920
AVIANCA's first flight: September 20, 1920

I thought the differences were more notorious, but it was only a few months of difference.

Also KLM suspended services in two ocasions:
First between December 1920 and April 1921 due to a heavy winter and also between 1944 to 1945 due to WWII, that makes Avianca the most continuously running commercial airline in the world.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArmada From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7691 times:

For what it is worth.....

Chalk's Ocean Airways claims title of world's oldest. It started regular service in Feb., 1919 (between Miami and Bimini), with initial operations starting in 1917 before Mr. Arthur Chalk went off to fight in WWI.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7672 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Thread starter):
KLM's first flight: May 17, 1920

In two days, it will be the 85 anniversary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7663 times:

In fact, the Deutsche Luftreederei (renamed Lufthansa on the 6th Jan 1926) was founded on the 13th Dec 1917 with its first flight on the 5th Feb 1919. This makes LH 86 years and 3 months old. Unfortunately, LH suspended services after WWII until 1st Apr 1955.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

"Papers formally establishing Qantas were signed in the Gresham Hotel, Brisbane, on 16 November 1920. " QF Website

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/history/details2



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Quoting LHB727230Adv (Reply 3):
LH suspended services after WWII until 1st Apr 1955.

Why was LH Operations suspended after WWII? may i ask details . . . .


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7386 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 5):
Why was LH Operations suspended after WWII? may i ask details . . . .

Well, Germany was under the supervision of the allied forces and has not been allowed to fly those days. But as I am not of this generation and furthermore Swiss, maybe a German colleague being more familiar with the subject may pop in and explain in details.


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7360 times:

If you check LB, it was founded in September 1925 and has been operating without interruption ever since. If you look at it that way "without interruption", it could with Chalks´be the oldest continuously operating airline in the world, because as I understand, LH/KL have interrupted operations, although I´m unsure about QF and Avianca.

User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7140 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Thread starter):
The oldest airline in the world, KLM and the second, AVIANCA, were really close on the dates they were established and the dates they made their first flights, look at this:

The battle is between KLM and Chalks Ocean Airways. No one is really sure who is the oldest. KLM says they are. Which I think KLM is the older but not by much.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6793 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

Most people recognize KLM as the world's oldest carrier, but I seem to recall readnig somewhere that Aerolineas Argentina was among the oldest.

I'll have to validate or look into it, but for whatever reason, the name just popped into my head.

I know NW is the oldest American major carrier.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7140 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7330 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 9):
I know NW is the oldest American major carrier

Chalks Ocean Airways is the oldest airline in America.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 8):
The battle is between KLM and Chalks Ocean Airways. No one is really sure who is the oldest. KLM says they are. Which I think KLM is the older but not by much.

The worlds' first airline DELAG was established on October 16, 1909, to carry passengers between German cities by Zeppelin airships.

KLM is the worlds' oldest airline established in 1919 and Avianca the second, established in 1919 as well.

Check what the USA Today says on its last lines of this article:
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/07/10-avianca.htm



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7166 times:

I believe that Chalk's is the oldest as they started several months before KLM. The problem is that they changed names between Chalks to Pan Am Air Bridge and back to Chalks then to Chalks Ocean Airways.

KLM on the other hand did cease ops

Avianca in another thread supposedly did as well.

Of course KLM fans don't like to talk about Chalks as it is small and does not count in their minds.

It is all relative as to what qualifies and what does not.....

But for oldest airline that still exists today its Chalks!


User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Does KLM still count as an airline? Outside of the paint job, I thought they were part of Air France now?

User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 6):
quirrel83 (Reply 5):
Why was LH Operations suspended after WWII? may i ask details . . . .

Well, Germany was under the supervision of the allied forces and has not been allowed to fly those days. But as I am not of this generation and furthermore Swiss, maybe a German colleague being more familiar with the subject may pop in and explain in details.

Well, Germany wasn't allowed to have their own Airservice anymore as well we weren't allowed to have any force. After the allowance to have a force again Lufthansa was allowed to enter service again but wasn't allowed to enter Easr Germany and especially Berlin. I hope this explanation is sufficient enough for you..

Matt



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

This is probably a dumb question, but what does the K, L and M mean in KLM Royal Dutch Airlines?

User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

I thought it was Mexicana?

User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Quoting Junction (Reply 15):
This is probably a dumb question, but what does the K, L and M mean in KLM Royal Dutch Airlines?

There are no dumb questions, only dumb answeres.

Koningklijke / Royal
Luchtvaart / Aviation
Maatschappij / Company

This is a straight translation.



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 2):

In two days, it will be the 85 anniversary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did they stopped during WWII?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 12):
KLM on the other hand did cease ops

I never heard of this, services in the Caribean were continued afaik during those 1940-45.


I think Bristol-Lisbon was also flow during 1944-45.


KLM's European operation was suspended from 1939 to 1945, and some of its aircraft were chartered to the British Government for flights between London and Lisbon. In other parts of the world, KLM continued its pioneering, and by 1945, its network in Central and South America covered 5,761 miles, including 14 cities in 9 countries.

Source http://www.lib.uwo.ca/business/cr-klm.htm

The US carrier Chalk's Ocean Airways was founded in 1919 (date?) changed owners and names many times and came out of bankruptsy in 1999. http://www.chalksoceanairways.com/history/airline.htm>


User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

Quoting Morvious (Reply 17):
Koningklijke / Royal
Luchtvaart / Aviation
Maatschappij / Company

This is a straight translation.

Thanks for the info...I didn't see this even on the KL web site in the history section.


User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

Quoting Junction (Reply 15):
This is probably a dumb question, but what does the K, L and M mean in KLM Royal Dutch Airlines?



Quoting Morvious (Reply 17):
Koningklijke / Royal

Koninklijke (without g) Luchtvaart Maatschappij
translation is correct

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 13):
Does KLM still count as an airline? Outside of the paint job, I thought they were part of Air France now?

AF/KL is a holding with two different brands (AF and KL) both operating under their own licences. So KL does still count as world's oldest airline continuously operating under the same name.


User currently offlineTheredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2206 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

Mexicana founded on July 12 1921 pretty close.....

https://www.mexicana.com/main/



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineSonicZoom87 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6221 times:

KLM - 1919
Florida's "Chalk's Ocean Airways" - 1919 (this one only flies a handful of small seaplanes)
Avianca - 1919
Qantas - 1920 (So far not a single airplane accident ever reported; Record!!!)
Mexicana - 1921
Bolivia's "LAB" - 1925
In the United States the oldest airline is "Northwest" - 1926 (Northwest's pilot uniforms toast their airline's origins as a postal service contractor with the words "U.S. Mail" in the center of their emblems.)

I give credit for the facts posted to Patrick Smith, author of the great book named "Ask the Pilot". Personally I recommend it for all aviator's enthusiasts!


User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting SonicZoom87 (Reply 23):
Qantas - 1920 (So far not a single airplane accident ever reported; Record!!!)

Not true I'm afraid. Plenty of fatal accidents prior to and during WWII, last fatal accident in I think 1950, seven dead in a de Havilland Australia DHA-3 Drover off Lae in PNG. Lost a Connie off the end of the runway in Mauritius and of course there was the 747 at BKK a few years ago. Still an impressive record for an airline of QANTAS' size and age.



Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
25 SonicZoom87 : OzLAME thanks for correcting me is true I checked a couple of websites and Quantas has not had a fatal accident in some 30 years or so but they have h
26 OzLAME : Don't sweat it SonicZoom, and welcome to a.net!
27 Post contains images QantasPilot : Please spell it as "Qantas". Q = Queensland A = And N = Northern T = Territory A = Aerial S = Services Thanks, Blake / QantasPilot
28 HAL : Hawaiian Airlines: Founded January 30th, 1929. Has been operating continuously since then. No mergers with or by other airlines - has stood on its own
29 DouglasDC10 : Keesje, as far as I know, there was also a route from the UK to Gibraltar operated by KLM. But I don't know, if this route was operated in the whole t
30 OzGlobal : In fact, it's "No fatalities in the Jet Era". Fatal accidents were all in smaller prop. planes during or before WWII, i.e. nothing in the last 60 yea
31 RICARIZA : This is a nice summary.. Thanks SonicZoom87 and Welcome!
32 123 : Ajá, so LAB made it on the top 6 list! You see, LAB might be a small airline but without it, Bolivia would not have progressed due to it´s topograph
33 TACAA320 : TA was also an old one. Was found back in 1931 in Honduras by a New Zealand's citizen entrepreneur.
34 Flymia : Well since Chalks Ocean Airways is in Florida I would imagine Chalks would be the United States oldest airline. Do you mean major airline?
35 SonicZoom87 : Yes indeed Northwest is the oldest American Major Airline. Now it could have started earlier as a postal service contractor before Chalk's Ocean Airw
36 RCS763AV : AR are only 55 years old...
37 TACAA320 : KLM was documented as the oldest airline, founded on 7 October 1919 and beginning service 17 May 1920. Avianca of Colombia is listed as the oldest in
38 Jeb94 : Lufthansa was a major player in developing the Luftwaffe of the Third Reich. Many, in fact most, of its aircraft were bombers disguised to look like a
39 FlyMIA : Chalks is considered the 2nd oldest airline in the world and oldest in the Americas. Just because it is a small airline does not mean it does not cou
40 Waterpolodan : Just curious, anyone else ever flown on Chalks? I took a flight from Miami to bimini to Nassau on one of their Grumman mallards about 8 years ago or s
41 Adriaticus : (1) KLM (Koninklijke luchtvaartmaatschappij), founded October 7, 1919; (2) Avianca, founded as SCADTA (Sociedad Colombo-Alemana de Transporte Aéreo)
42 Flymia : Yea I flown them a couple of times. Very convient airline to use, and lots of fun the water landing and takeoffs and be able to look in the cockpit t
43 RICARIZA : Good Point Adriaticus!
44 Post contains links TANS : It might be interesting to note that CSA Czech Airlines started operating in 1923 (on the 23rd of October to be precise). They first flew on an Aero A
45 JHSfan : Adriaticus - thank you for your list. I have to add a (0) to the list! Det Danske Luftfartselskab (DDL) was founded on October 29th 1918. Almost one y
46 NWADC9 : NWA (then NorthWest Airways, Inc.) started out in 1926 flying two rented open-air bi-planes between MSP and Chigago with stops in Wisconsin for fuel.
47 AMSSFO : would only count if it is still flying under its own name or at least under its licenses. Merger etc do not count; otherwise there are many companies
48 Post contains images MCOtoATL : And here's another piece of trivia. KLM's original fleet (circa 1920) consisted of several DC-9s that still fly with Northwest!!!!!
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