Sndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2 Posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1330 times:
This forum seems to have very great interest in big aircraft, as we can see at the reactions about the customers for the A3XX. But what about the smaller aircraft. Which airlines are, according to you, the following to order the B717, still having just a few customers, the B757-300, a slow seller until now and the B767-400(ERX), with almost the same problem. What airlines do you think are needing aircraft in this category and do you think they will opt for the Airbus counterpart (if there is one)? And what about the A318, A330-100X and A340-500/-600, which still have to be launched or haven't gained a lot of customers lately?
So what airlines are possible buyers within this and five years for the
and how much of them will they buy? Maybe difficult to answer, as none of us is Madama Soleille, but between al these great aviation specialists here, some should have (or think to have) an idea about this, not?
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 59 Reply 3, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1023 times:
Expect both Qantas and Air NZ to look at A340NG or 777NG, with both more than likely going Boeing. I will probably draw some criticism here, but I don't see too many future sales of the A340-500/600. Simply because the market isn't supposed to be that large (500 planes max) and the airlines that would order this plane (previous Airbus widebody operators) already have. Certainly expect follow-up orders from Lufthansa, Swissair, Virgin, but I expect most of the upcoming orders in this category will go to Boeing, simply because the airlines (Thai, ANA, American, Air France) already operate 777s, and an engine switch is more economical than an airframe switch.
Flying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 5, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1024 times:
I do believe that the 717 will mostly be ordered by carriers which are first time entries into the jet business, I here recall the Regional Airlines (Spain) 717-200 order, maybe Olympic Aviation, too. I guess Jersey European might be one of it although I suppose a 115-seat version of the ARJX, "ARJX-115 called" (when the ARJ family was launched a 115-seater was offered, the RJ-115) would suit them more.
The A318 is more likely for carriers which already have an A32X fleet, I guess LH, UA, NW and US will order it.
The 767-400 will probably don´t gain much orders. Most of them will come from US carriers, I think Delta and Continental (have already ordered it), maybe TWA once their financial status recovers. Some smaller carriers, VARIG possbily. The A330-200 will get most of these orders, it offers a better performance compared to the B764 and has already gaind a lot of orders. My bets go for LOT, RAM, Tunisair, Britannia, NW, UA and Lauda Air.
The 757-300 is a problem for Boeing. Although I might be a bit too pessimistic I think its the wrong plane at the wrong time. Onyl few carriers (Condor, Arkia, JMC, Icelandair) have ordered a few and no customers are in sight at the moment. The only one I can think about is TWA but see above.
Now to the most interesting point: the A340NG (-500/-600). I think Cathay, Malaysian and Thai will place orders for it, maybe even Korean. Airbus will sell them in package deals with the A3XX I guess. The same what Boeing did with 777 and 747 deals. Just wanted to mention it so that nobody can say Airbus is doing something unfair. I can think about some deals here: United launched the 777 and got some 747-400 very cheap, Malaysian signed a huge 777/744 deal.
Jet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1012 times:
Britannia are now very unlikely to order the A330, they are severely trimming longh-haul flying - all Australia, New Zealand and Canada flights have ended permanently, and most Caribbean flights will be stopped.
As for the 767-400ER, it doesn't have the range for Lauda or Britannia, neither has expressed any interest in the 767-400ERX
Lauda operating an all Boeing fleet of 737NG/767/777 won't order the A330 - parent Austrian already operates it - there is no need for both airlines to!
Flying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 7, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 987 times:
You mean Austrian might give some of its A332s to Lauda? Quite unlikely I think although it might be possible. Just a few weeks ago Flight International had an article saying that Lauda Air is interested in either 8 A332 or B764. I suppose that they go for Airbus, here the cost saving effects with Austrian should be big enough to do such a move. And to my understanding the 764 has a flightdeck which hasn´t much in common with the 763ER flight deck. Last thing I heard about Lauda that they probably wanted to get rid of their 772ER but as said, it was only a rumour.
I think to say anything about Air France is a bit difficult. The operate a GE90-powered 772 fleet, yes, but they also have a A330/340 and building it still up so I wouldn´t rule out an A340-600 order completly. I THINK they will go for the 777-300ER but Air France has surprised us more then once.
Sndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 985 times:
I do not quite understand why Lauda woudn't order the A330 because Austrian has already got these planes. It would be fleet commonality within the Austrian Airlines Group. The fact that Lauda operates an all Boeing fleet seems a stronger argument although if the 767-400 doesn't suite them .... Maybe they will order additional 777 or maybe they are waiting for the 777-100X.
UK-TWA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 968 times:
The next order, or better, leasing announcement will most likely come from TWA: 10 B717 from Pembroke (in addition to the 50 firm orders and 50 purchase options). TWA is probably also one of the next airlines ordering the B757-300. American is also considering it. Hopefully TW places the order first, since the price will almost certainly go up, once AA has "endorsed" the B753.
AA737-800 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 963 times:
In regards to 757-300 orders, don't they have a less than desirable turnaround time? It seems it would take forever to get everyone off that aircraft without two boarding bridges. Why not just order a 767? Higher operating costs. But, the less time on the ground, the more flights, which could possibly offset the higher operating costs. I think Boeing made a mistake by introducing the 757-300 before major airlines had seriously endorsed it.
Sndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 965 times:
Just to summarise what is already been said (or what I remember from it, I have been reading them during the day, not all just a minute ago).
Most importantly there seem to be a lot of rumours out there about what Lauda Air is going to do. According to me, Niki Lauda himself is a great Boeing fan, het likes those airplanes a lot but I also think that Lauda will go to Airbusses, like mothercompany Austrian and partners LH, BM and SAS. But that is just my opinion. I expect them to order A330's but keep 777 and 737's.
Next important thing seems to be the order from TWA and AA for B757-300's, which some expect to come.
Some guessing also with AF which is now indeed building it's fleet around the A330/A340 as they will replace the B767's. But they also have got some 777 so question is with what will they replace their older 747's? Triple sevens or Airbusses?
Still a lot of questions, more comments on this topic are welcome, thank you for all those who have already reacted on my initial message.
Jet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 965 times:
Yes, Sorry you were right - Lauda have expressed an interest in the 767-400ERX, you reminded me of the article in Flight International
As for Austrian leasing A330s to Lauda - I didn't explain myself well. I meant Lauda won't order the A330 because Austrian already have it, if there is a route ideally suited to the A330, Austrian will fly it - If the 767/777 would be better - Lauda can fly it.
Both airlines will be the most efficient if Austrian is all-Airbus and Lauda is all-Boeing
F4N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 959 times:
To all: The orders website indicates that UA is to make a decision this year between the 764 or A332. Would not their currently large fleet of 757/767 make UA a logical candidate for the 764? How about AA? Any interest on their part in the 764?
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 59 Reply 22, posted (13 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 934 times:
Lauda Air will probably order 764s when the 'enhanced version' is available around 2004. Remember, these aircraft have a very similar cockpit to the 777 and 738 already in Lauda's fleet. Add to that that Mr. Lauda himself is rated to fly these aircraft, and you have a pretty good argument for Boeing
As for Air France, I can't say one way or another. What I can tell you is that according to AF's representive in the Everett plant, they are EXTREMELY happy with their 777s. That is why I said earlier that I expect them to continue ordering 777s, while they will probably order more A332s to completely replace the combined 767/A310 (15 aircraft) fleet.