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Turboprop Business Aircraft  
User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

Out of curiousity, what are some of the popular turboprop biz'props' out there. I'm familiar with Pilatus, but are there other ones out there with decent ranges. Looking for 4-8 people and pressurized cabin of course.

What is the longest range turboprop biz aircraft?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7810 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

The most popular would be the Beechcraft King Air line. Its been in production in various versions since the mid 1960s. And from what I hear the Super King 350 has some pretty long legs and can carry an impressive load.

Both Cessna and Piper made turboprop twin versions of their large cabin class twins. The C-425/441 Conquest at Cessna and the Cheyenne at Piper. Rockwell (or was it Grumman) had the Turbo Commander series, again some versions were piston powered. They are pretty distinctive looking with their high mounted wings.

But other than the King Air, Pilatus PC-12, the only other business turboprop in production that I know of off hand is the Socota TBM-700, single engined turboprop about the size of a King Air C90.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSanjet From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7036 times:

The king air is one of the most popular business turbo props I've heard. Don't know the range but I heard it's really good, specially the king air 350.


Will Fly For Food!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Yup.... one of the best sellers of all time....


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"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7016 times:

One of the most popular is the Beech King Air, with it's last version, the King Air 350 still in production and just updated with Collins Proline 21 avionics. Socata is a competitor in the single engine market with it's TBM 700, a small 6 seater they guarantee you 300 knots cruise. I real hot bird is the Piaggio which is a kind of "semi - canard" design, powered by 2 PT6 turbines, driving two push-props. The Piaggio is real fast (395 knots true airspeed) and has a very roomy cabin.
For sure, there are many models which are now more produced like Conquests from Cessna, AC690 ties made by Rockwell or Piper's Cheyenne's.
Manly the smaller Jet's like Ciation's and now lately Citation Jets or also called "CJ's" drove the turboprobs more and more out of market as those jets are normally cheaper to operate. There is still a small market which is basically served by Beech with the King Air. Piaggio is more a competitor to the small jets, as their plane is even faster than a CJ but has a roomier cabin. Pilatus with it's PC12 and Socata with the TBM 700 do actually more serve the people which owned before the big piston twins like "Golden Eagle's" or Navajo's.
But the market keeps interesting as there are many so called "Very Light Jet's" in development. Those aircrafts will be in a price range from 1 to 2,5 Mio $ and offer 4 to 6 seats, mainly designed for the owner pilot, a market also the PC12 and the TBM700 are serving.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Either the Pilatus PC-12 or Piaggio Avanti are the fastest turboprops out right now. Can't remember which.

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6993 times:


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The Piaggio p-180's are making a comeback as a business aircraft. Quick aircraft and high altitude are a plus in this aircraft.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Either the Pilatus PC-12 or Piaggio Avanti are the fastest turboprops out right now. Can't remember which.

Well, the PC12 is not that fast. It does about 260 honest knots, meanwhile the Avanti goes real close to 400 and is probably one of the fastest propeller drivens. The PC12 is more like a "flying SUV" multipurpose plane, offering a comfortable pressurized cabin, taking somewhat up to 11 people as commuter or offering real utility trough it's hugh aft cargo door. The one Pilatus that's real fast is the PC21. This plane is a tandem military trainer just in the last stage of the certification process. It is a single engine tandem plane, equipped by a PT6 turbine that drives a 5 blade prop and giving the plane up to Mach 0.7 cruising speed. But this is plane is not developed for the civil market and so may not really be of your interest.


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1010 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

I'm pretty sure that the TBM-700 is faster than the PC-12 anyday. I had the chance to take one up last week here in YYC and we were making about 280 indicated at 24,000'.

User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 8):
I'm pretty sure that the TBM-700 is faster than the PC-12 anyday. I had the chance to take one up last week here in YYC and we were making about 280 indicated at 24,000'.

This is for sure and you didn't go max speed then, the TBM700 goes even faster. But that's what I've listed above, giving a quick overview. The TBM700 is the BMW, the PC12 the luxury van  Wink


User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Beech turboprops currently in production are the C90A, B200 and B300 King Airs. Over 5000 of the series have been built. The B300, aka Super King Air 350 is in service with the Royal Australian Air Force here. It can easily fly with a decent load non-stop from East Sale RAAF Base to Darwin, which is around 1800nm. Drawback is the cost, I think it is about $6m USD new. It is far more capable than any of the light jets however.

The TBM700 and the Piper Meridian are single-engine six-seaters aimed at the flying doctors and dentists. The Piper especially is quite small. You could also get yourself a piston-engined Piper Malibu and re-engine it with a PT-6.

The Pilatus PC-12 has the same size cabin as a King Air 200, it has a big side cargo door so is a very useful aeroplane.

Don't know much about the Piaggio other than it's fast and very sexy.

Out-of production a/c include the Piper Cheyenne, the 400LS model with the Garrett TPE331 engines is good for 400MPH and FL400. There is also the Mitsubishi MU-2 series, a very unforgiving aircraft but some models are also very good performers, also reaching FL400 and over 300kts. They can be quite cheap to buy, due both to their reputation and because they are getting a bit old now. You could probably buy two or even three MU-2s for the price of one Cessna 441 Conquest.

Another one is the Swearingen/Fairchild Merlin series, you have a choice of either the original short fuselage a/c or what is pretty much a Metro. Someone showed me an Amway brochure once, with bios of all the Amway success stories. A lot of those guys had Merlin/Metro a/c. There are also the F90 and 100 series King Airs, they are pretty old now as well. Don't forget the Gulfstream G1 either, but that is in a different league altogether.



Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
User currently offlineFlapsDown20 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6817 times:

The Piaggio 180 Avanti is by far the most attractive biz prop in existence and quite a speed queen at that. The Avanti has been spotted here at MKC several times in the past few years and the last time I got a price quote they were asking 2.1 million for the beauty parked at Executive Beechcraft. Had I 2.1 million, I'd take a bite on that lovely work of art. The King Airs are a dime a dozen, mundane, pedestrian aircraft for the bizman golfer headed to Bay

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

Did anybody mention the Cessna Caravan??

..and don't forget that the NASCAR teams like those used speedy Saab 2000's

Jimbo

[Edited 2005-05-18 15:21:39]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

I am surprised that no one mentioned the New Piper PA-41-500T Malibu Meridian. It is a six seater based loosely on the Malibu Mirage..... Looks allot like a TBM-700. There are also the occasional corporate Merlin/Metro and Jetstream.


KBFIspotter



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineNightFlier From United States of America, joined May 2004, 284 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

The KingAir is the most popular but sucks to fuel. By one self it can take up to 30 minutes if it needs a topoff on all 4 tanks.

The Piaggio is quiet, cool looking, and easy to fuel.  trophy 

The grand Caravan is the worst out of them all, especially the amphibian. I can only imagine trying to fuel that thing when the waves near the dock are splashing up against it. To fuel that plane you need a very tall latter, airstairs, or you can stand on the back of the jet truck if it is tall enough sarcastic 

Most people dont care when they buy one of these planes because they wont be fueling it. But test have shown that an aircraft with a Single point refueling set up is less likely to have contamination of the fuel during the refueling procedure, then an over wing aircraft.

 psst  I would go with the Piaggio



Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Quoting NightFlier (Reply 14):
The grand Caravan is the worst out of them all, especially the amphibian. I can only imagine trying to fuel that thing when the waves near the dock are splashing up against it. To fuel that plane you need a very tall latter, airstairs, or you can stand on the back of the jet truck if it is tall enough

I can testify to that. I had an amphib 208B come in during the middle of the night a few weeks ago and I had to set up a ladder on top of the jet fuel truck to get to the tanks. Those suckers are HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!

I will agree, single point rules! I love the Piaggio.

Long Live the Flying Pickle!!!!!


KBFIspotter



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

Quoting NightFlier (Reply 14):
I would go with the Piaggio

Well, the question here is how much you want to spend and what the use for this aircraft will be.
I absolutely do agree with you that a single point refueling is really cool and the most convenient way to fill it. BUT....... I guess nobody looking fro an Avanti is really going for a Caravan or vice versa. Could you imagine going on floats with an Avanti or landing in front of your farm? A Caravan does it easily. On the other hand if you prefer it real fast with a nice big cabin, enjoying pressurized flying above the weather, well then you should go for the Avanti. The thing is, the Caravan is a competitor for planes like a PC6, the Avanti on the other hand is mostly in competition with the light jets. It's like a van, it does not really compete a luxury limousine either.


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6510 times:

You all forget the MU-2. A fast twin turboprop that was quite popular 20 years ago.

User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

There is a jetprop conversion available for the Cessna 210. Just about any jetprop airliner serves in the corporate roll such as the Fairchild/Dornier 328, the EMB-110 and 120, the Beech 1900, etc...

User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6460 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 13):
am surprised that no one mentioned the New Piper PA-41-500T Malibu Meridian. It is a six seater based loosely on the Malibu Mirage..... Looks allot like a TBM-700. There are also the occasional corporate Merlin/Metro



Quoting Milesrich (Reply 17):
You all forget the MU-2. A fast twin turboprop that was quite popular 20 years ago.

I mentioned all of those types previously. Hmmm..... no smiley for "blowing my own trumpet". Hmmm..... no smiley for "smartarse" either.  razz  The Meridian is a lot smaller than the TBM 700, it really is a PT-6 Malibu. BTW a guy I know who had his Malibu re-engined with a PT-6 says it performs better than the Meridian due to having a more powerful engine.

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 15):
can testify to that. I had an amphib 208B come in during the middle of the night a few weeks ago and I had to set up a ladder on top of the jet fuel truck to get to the tanks. Those suckers are HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!

I will agree, single point rules!

Single point refuelling is available for the Cessna Caravan, IIRC as an S.B. Kit. The refuelling point is located in one of the fuselage strut fairings.



Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2503 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Turbine conversion also available for the Beech Bonanza.

Beech Bonanza w/ turbine conversion:

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Meridian:

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TBM700

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Pilatus PC-12

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Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

There are also some NEW turboprops out there:

The Czech IBIS Ae270 and the Epic LT - both flying at least prototype versions!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6411 times:

My favourite...


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Like OZlame said, a different league altogether, and the forerunner to the G159 sereies of bizjets.



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 19):
Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 13):
am surprised that no one mentioned the New Piper PA-41-500T Malibu Meridian. It is a six seater based loosely on the Malibu Mirage..... Looks allot like a TBM-700. There are also the occasional corporate Merlin/Metro



Quoting Milesrich (Reply 17):
You all forget the MU-2. A fast twin turboprop that was quite popular 20 years ago.

I mentioned all of those types previously. Hmmm..... no smiley for "blowing my own trumpet". Hmmm..... no smiley for "smartarse" either. The Meridian is a lot smaller than the TBM 700, it really is a PT-6 Malibu. BTW a guy I know who had his Malibu re-engined with a PT-6 says it performs better than the Meridian due to having a more powerful engine.

Sorry about that.... I missed your post when I originally read the thread......... banghead 
The Malibu Meridian is not just a Malibu Mirage with a PT-6 bolted on like mentioned above. Piper basically redesigned the wing and tail surface to accomadate the more powerfull turboprop. As a result, you have increased wing area, tail area, and slightly redesigned fuselage.

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 19):
Single point refuelling is available for the Cessna Caravan, IIRC as an S.B. Kit. The refuelling point is located in one of the fuselage strut fairings.

How long has this been offered? I have never heard of it before. It would be a welcome feature to have as standard to the amphibs.  Wow!



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 19):
it really is a PT-6 Malibu. BTW a guy I know who had his Malibu re-engined with a PT-6 says it performs better than the Meridian due to having a more powerful engine.

There are actually two versions of PT6 powered Malibus around. The one is the Meridian which is as KBFIspotter correctly say in the previous message a basically new aircraft that was developed on the base of the Malibu Mirage.
The other one is called X-prop conversion. If I remember right it's done in Tacoma or Seattle. What many people do, they take their original Piston Malibu there and let it refit with the PT6 engine.
One of the real strong parts of either version with the turbine on, compared to the piston one is everything related with climb and descend. The Malibu suffers from thermic problems. With it's original 350hp engine it is not so much powered for the weight of the plane. For sure it climbs much better with the turbine. But the real issue is the descend. Imagine, just idling this turbocharged-piston engine will completely shockcool it. Many engines needed to be replaced very early. You also get problems with the pressurization, just going into idle. The compressor won't be able any more to keep the cabin pressurized and it will start to climb. This can be very uncomfortable. Very often it is for that very difficult to comply with ATC's requests in IFR flying as they expect you to descend with 1000' to 2000 feet per minute and you might be able doing 600-700' and will already come close to the speed limit as the plane is very aerodynamic. So Piper gave you the option to lower the gear at 170 knots and then again to increase the speed. But how wants to lower the gear half an hour before landing? All those worries are gone with the PT6 conversion. There is no risk of shockcooling, it perfecly provides bleedair for the cabin and you can descend real steep as a propeller of a turboprop in idle is a great speedbrake.For sure it is expensive to put on but for an aircraft that is flown frequently, I think it pays. Also as you can operate it then by much cheaper jetfuel.


25 KBFIspotter : Close. The X-Prop converion is done by JetpropDLX in Spokane. KBFIspotter
26 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Actually, sorry to nit pick, but the PC-12's cabin is actually a little bigger than the King Air 200/300. Not by much, but a little. It's an awesome
27 Legacy135 : I can tell you that a couple of years ago was a project of putting two Williams Engines (as used on Cessnas CJ's) on top of the PC-12's wings, simila
28 OzLAME : I'm nitpicking now; one of the primary differences between the B200 and B300 King Air is that the 300 has a significantly longer cabin. I am happy to
29 Legacy135 : The cabin of the B200 and the B300 are identical. The one of the B350 is streched by "one window", let's say maybe 50 cm or 2 feet. The difference be
30 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Ooo, sorry, IMO, I think that would look hidious. The speed increase would be awesome though.
31 Sacflyer : Actually, according to the respective websites, the Pilatus' cabin is 330 cubic feet while the King Air B200's is 388 cubic feet.
32 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Actually, LOL - just kidding. In reality though, in a brochure for a Pilatus PC-12, they list cabin volume not excluding the cockpit as 330 cu. ft. T
33 Sacflyer : It seems you are correct. I rechecked the specifications on the Pilatus web-site and it does state that the cabin volume of 330 cu. ft. is from the c
34 Boeing Nut : So which one would you have Sacflyer? Just curious.
35 Post contains images OzLAME : I think you are confusing Model designations (which I was using) and aircraft names. The various Models of T-tail King Airs are F90 and F90-1; 200 an
36 Post contains images Texan : Not that this should have any bearing on which aircraft someone buys, but the line guys and people who work anywhere in the general vicinity of a GA r
37 Post contains images MD-90 : I'd be hard pressed to call 260 knots in a turboprop slow. And who can forget all those years of Pilatus ads touting the size of the PC-12's cabin. P
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