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Garuda In Talks With Boeing For 24 Aircraft  
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10521 times:

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2005/05/17/afx2032943.html

is this old news? sorry if is, but i haven't heard of this before.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10427 times:

Nothing new here, this is all part of ongoing talks between Garuda Indonesia and Boeing, that have been dragging on for years now. Garuda is in dire need of additional widebody equipment, as the widebody fleet is down to 9 airframes only (6 A333 and 3 B744), so the addition of the T7 airframes would be a welcome relief in order to restart or open up new longhaul routes and alleviate the workload of the A333 fleet, which is currently running at close to 15 hours of average daily utilization, a number which is quite formidable for an aircraft deployed on mainly regional routes.

The key for Garuda in order to secure the deal will be the financing. The company is still heavily in debts, and potential financers may not be lining up to provide the necessary backing. However, the new guys at the helm of the company are mainly experienced bankers, so I would vouch that a deal could be sealed in the medium term. Around 2 months ago, a high level Boeing team was in town to further the talks, and there have been frequent follow up contacts. It is hoped that an agreement could be reached later this year.


User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10410 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
9 airframes only (6 A333

so they are "abusing" the A333 using them as A300 for high density regional flights?.
I am surprised they are going Boeing when they already have the A333.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10368 times:

I think it has already been discussed in another thread some weeks or month ago , but can someone confirm if they plan to reopen Europeans routes with these T7s.
If so , surely SPL will be the first.
But what about LHR , CDG , FRA they used to fly in the past.
It will be nice to see them again in the European sky.
I remember the time they flew to LBG with the old good DC8s.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10370 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
so they are "abusing" the A333 using them as A300 for high density regional flights?

The A333s are currently deployed on the following routes:

CGK-SIN-PEK
CGK-SIN-PVG
CGK-CAN
CGK-HKG
DPS-SIN
DPS-BNE(-AKL)
DPS-SYD
DPS-MEL(-ADL)
DPS-KIX
DPS-NGO
DPS-FUK

as well as a couple of CGK-DPS domestic runs. I wouldn't call the operation an abuse of the A333. I think the aircraft is quite suitable for this kind of work.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
I am surprised they are going Boeing when they already have the A333.

Garuda is also in talks for up to 3 additional A333 airframes. The T7 talks focus on longhaul capacity, whereas the A333 is really Garuda's high density regional aircraft for flights up to 7 hours or so.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10336 times:

Quoting FCKC (Reply 3):
can someone confirm if they plan to reopen Europeans routes with these T7s.
If so , surely SPL will be the first.
But what about LHR , CDG , FRA they used to fly in the past.

That is just one of the possibilities, but nothing is clear about the exact future longhaul plans as per yet. A lot will also depend on the future of the B744 at Garuda. The aircraft is really too big for an airline like GA and if and when the B772 arrives, the B744 might very well be phased out.

A return to Europe is obviously one of the possibilities as is a return to the US, but, as for Europe, it is highly unlikely that Garuda will ever return to more than one ore two European destinations.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6844 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10288 times:

"so they are "abusing" the A333 using them as A300 for high density regional flights?"

They also won the Airbus best reliability A330 operator award in 2003...

No more A300s... The reason they're going 777s (ERs) is because the board of 98-2003 decided it was futile to re-enter Europe (apart from the remaining network they had) using 747s and that the 777s was a better equipment for such long routes than the 777s. Now, how did the pre-98 board came up with the order in 96 remains as a "mystery".

The plan in 2003 was to use the 777s to recover Europe, and use them to Japan. The 744 was to remain on AMS and FRA only. However, since they were focused on maintaining their cashflow, there was a last minute request by GA to GECAS to delay the 777s as it would make more sense for GA to get more 737s do maintain domestic dominance. So the 777 delay fees were paid by GA in terms of 16 737s from GECAS (now delivered... GZ* and GH*).

The T7 plans were also delayed pending the outcome of the plans for Medan Airport and the cooperation with MH. The previous board have mentioned that Medan was to be the stop for Europe... and GA's 737s would provide feeds to SIN, KUL, PEN and the rest of Indonesia... These T7 flights would "bank" in Medan, then go onto SIN, CGK, DPS... from DPS, the A333 takes over to continue the pax to Australia. Now that's all gone into thin air as the new Medan Airport plans are in limbo and it looks like they're just going to expand the current airport.

However, many things have happened since 2003 in GA... *it's called Indra Setiawan's disaster at the helm!* and GA may never be able achieve those ambitions now thanks to 2003-2005...

mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4772 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10220 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
CGK-SIN-PEK
CGK-SIN-PVG
CGK-CAN

If CAN can support an A 333 flight on its own from CGK, Im pretty sure that PEK and PVG would do so too more easily via a nonstop flight which would also be beneficial cost wise to GA. From SIN, it faces heavy competition from SQ and the Chinese airlines on the core SIN-PEK and SIN-PVG routes.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6844 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10187 times:

Well, ppl going to CAN just want to go to CAN... the ones going to PEK and PVG do like the stopovers... just the demand behaviour I think...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10191 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 7):
If CAN can support an A 333 flight on its own from CGK, Im pretty sure that PEK and PVG would do so too more easily via a nonstop flight which would also be beneficial cost wise to GA. From SIN, it faces heavy competition from SQ and the Chinese airlines on the core SIN-PEK and SIN-PVG routes.

As a matter of fact, Garuda just changed its nonstop CGK-PEK connection into a CGK-SIN-PEK connection, because it believes loads will improve with an additional SIN stop. CAN on the other hand is a strong performer because there are strong trade ties, resulting in good cargo revenue on the route. Furthermore, Garuda operates the CGK-CAN route in codeshare with China Southern and has a limited interline agreement in place with CZ.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10120 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Could Boeing take Garuda's A333s as part of the deal to win the order?

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 6):
The plan in 2003 was to use the 777s to recover Europe, and use them to Japan. The 744 was to remain on AMS and FRA only.

The T7 plans were also delayed pending the outcome of the plans for Medan Airport and the cooperation with MH. The previous board have mentioned that Medan was to be the stop for Europe...

With or without a new airport in Medan, the plans for a big return in Europe are definitely of the table. If and when the T7s arrive the question will be whether the B744s will stay of leave. If the 744s leave, then 3 of the T7s are immediately tied up in maintaining Gaurda's NRT and Middle Eastern operations, leaving another 3 T7s for a possible return to Europe and/or the US. If Garuda decides to hold on to the B744s, then there's more room for expansion on the horizon.

I personally believe that Garuda will return to Amsterdam and London. From what I know, a daily flight to Amsterdam is envisaged, to be complemented with a London connection with a reduced frequency. Amsterdam might well be served nonstop, and such a flight is hoped to be supported by a cooperation with KLM for connections within Europe. Right now, I don't see the point of a return to London, where Garuda will once again be forced to heavily discount in order to gain some low yielding 6th freedom traffic.

However, as with so many issues in Indonesian aviation, this discussion is painfully premature, as there is by no means a guarantee that the T7s will actually arrive. I do believe, however, that the current management has a much greater credibility than the guys before in its efforts to reposition Garuda's position in the international aviation scene.


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10104 times:

777ER, what crap are you talking? The Boeing orders have long been placed, but are delayed, delayed, delayed... there is nothing to "win" for Boeing, but rather to fulfill an old order in the books - and that should have been more than obvious when you would have read the whole threat. And using the A333s as part of a payment for the Boeing order - GA wouldn't win anything because they would simply exchange cheap capacity against way more expensive capacity for the mission required.


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Could Boeing take Garuda's A333s as part of the deal to win the order?

Highly unlikely, Garuda needs the extra capacity, and the A333s are very well suited for Garuda's regional network in Asia and the Pacific. The A333s serve very different purposes from the envisaged T7s, and Garuda is planning to add A333 frames for a proposed return to India and the Philipines.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Perhaps GA could switch their 777 order to 777-200LR to get an aicraft with more range and more easily fly nonstop to Europe and even the US ? I know that they ordered GE90 engines so switching to -200LRs wouldn't be too difficult although it would cost more. I think GA could get a lot of premium traffic that now flies via SIN to Indonesia if they started nonstop flights to AMS and LAX.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineSeamefly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

I sometimes don't understand how can't GA make money on European flights? Take a look at all the Kangaroo routes flown by many airlines (SQ, QF, BA, MH, etc). With final destinations to Australia/NZ. All the other airlines claim that this route is the most lucrative money making for them.

GA should offer Bali - Europe/US non-stop flights similar to the new trend that SQ and TG are now offering with only Business class and premium economy. Time the flight properly to have as minimum ground time as possible in Bali to connect to other flights to/from Australia/SE Asia and other parts of Indonesia.

I think a Bali stopover would be more attractive than a Singapore stopover offers by SQ.

This would be a great addition to SkyTeam alliance (specially NW worldperks' members) should GA decides to join them. At the present time, only KE offers connections to/from US/Europe to Australia/NZ.

To make money they just have to invest first.

Lastly, why can't they look for a 2nd hand 777 aircrafts instead of new ones? Would a 2nd hand a/c's be a lot cheaper?


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5752 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9559 times:

Quoting Seamefly (Reply 15):
Lastly, why can't they look for a 2nd hand 777 aircrafts instead of new ones? Would a 2nd hand a/c's be a lot cheaper?

There aren't any 2nd hand 777s in te hmarket. There were 8 parked in the desert but htey've all been taken up on lease due to the upturn in international traffic. In fact I believe it's very hard to get any high capacity long haul jets currently. With India booming (as well as the rest of Asia) getting large long haulers is getting more and more difficult. That's why we're all seeing a large upturn in new orders at both manufacturers. If GA is serious then they would be well advised to close the deal with Boeing and secure the earliest production spots available.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8445 times:

HB-IWC,

One of the hinderances to resuming flights to LAX, was the stopover
point. Back when I used to work for them, we had discussion at one
point of using the MD11 on a DPS-AKL-LAX routing as New Zealand held
beyond rights from DPS and their was open skies between NZ and the US.
Has anyone considered this route with the B777?? It would seem to make
a valid routing as it is well within the range limits. 5th freedom DPS-AKL
and AKL-LAX would allow for full flights on a year round basis, rather than
the cyclical nature of the Indonesia/LAX flights.
There was also talk about a year ago or so of GA getting a couple of
B747Fs and restarting the LAX route as cargo only. Have you ever heard
if this came close to realization?
Also, you wouldnt happen to know Jack Hanna, who is now working at CGK.
He used to be the station manager at LAX.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7711 times:

So what's new. GA has been in talks with Airbus & Boeing for the past five years on aircraft. So what's come out of it. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, other than a bunch of second hand 737s.

Even if ink is on the paper, I will believe it when an aircraft on the production line at Toulouse or Everett has "bound for Garuda" on it.

Boeing & Airbus should to no avail discount their aircraft as there are plenty of other first-class airlines out there.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6844 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7514 times:

Carpethead,
They've ordered the planes (6 777-200ER(GE) and about 16 or so 737-700/800) years back... Garuda's not asking for a discount but trying to buy time until their cashflow improves or find the necessary financing to get those planes made for them.

The 97-98 financial crisis resulted in massive change at GA (which thanks to the crisis is now actually a business (apart from 2003-2004 when it was run under the previous "temporary board"). In 2002 GA requested at last minute to delay the 777... as a result, the current PK-GZ* (734) and PK-GH* (733) series were leased in part as a payment to the delay fines... and at the time, GA needed the 737s a lot more than the 777s...

Now Boeing and Airbus is better off trying to accomodate Garuda with it's needs (the 73G/8 and 777 orders pending construction plus the 3 A333s on option) rather than chase a "60 aircraft purchase" and giving discounts for Lion Air which is discussed in Lion Air Close To A 60 Aircraft Order! (by Intothinair May 17 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

I sometimes don't understand how can't GA make money on European flights? Take a look at all the Kangaroo routes flown by many airlines (SQ, QF, BA, MH, etc). With final destinations to Australia/NZ. All the other airlines claim that this route is the most lucrative money making for them.

That is one uphill challenge for GA, making their brand known in the European market. Airlines like you mentioned all have a strong foothold on the premium traffic (namely PCL and JCL pax) from Europe to Australia and they have the product and award winning service to back them up.

SQ, QF and BA all have lie flats in P/JCL. MH is new to the "lie-flat" family but one must not discount their loyal followers and their award winning service (how many years in a row now? I lost count).

While MH's Golden Club seats were the only one among the "biggies" mentioned not lie-flat (hey, they were comfy!), GA's premium seats were a step back in time. They were the old First Class seats that had no standard adjustable headrests and lumbar support (which seems to be the bare minimum nowadays). So it seems that GA had not kept up with the pace of development in the game. Meanwhile, the "actual" Business Class seats were re-configured into Premium Economy. A smart move in my opinion, but once again, poor marketing was their failing point.

So how do you attract customers to fly your airline? Let alone high yielding ones?

So where does GA come in? While the conversion to "lie-flats" was becoming the rage, Indonesia was in the midst of a political upheaval (97-98 crisis) which let to the dramatic tumble of the Indonesian Rupiah, double whammy coupled with the Asian Economic meltdown during the same period. Suddenly the airline that had its network touch far afield had to downsize in its size which also let to the reduction in its fleet by up to half.

With a reduced fleet, there was no way they could fly daily to Europe (actually, by then they were only flying to AMS). With a reduction in frequencies, your competitive edge is immediately eroded because your closest rival now flies daily and direct.

While there was a brief respite from all these problems with a return to the black in the beginning of 2000, it has recently sunk back into the red again with its incapable management. And then there was the de-regulation which saw the domestic market flooded with many 2nd-rate carriers with questionable modus operandi, threatening to undercut GA. So the problems seem never ending.

So does it seem surprising that GA is in its current state today? No. All they need is for an excellent marketing drive to take them back to their previous days of glory... something like how MAS managed to turn around after the doldrum years between 1974-1990.

But with their foundations already weakened by the previous management and a host of other aviation calamities on the domestic front, one can only keep their fingers crossed that the funding doesn't run out because GA remains the most reliable carrier when flying in Indonesia (TRUST ME ON THAT ONE!) and they are not as bad as everyone make them out to be.

In fact, I think they are the undiscovered jewel when it comes to in-flight service. If only, now if only that was made known to the rest of the world...



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6844 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7372 times:

To add to Ryanair's reply...

When your airline is in financial trouble, get bankers to run it... Not the financial gizmotry experts or accountants... real bankers... This is what happened to Garuda in 98... The government appointed some top end bankers to go and overhaul GA's finances. Lo and behold, they being bankers first cut off all the slack (something expected from those kinds of people... cutting a huge portion of GA's workforce), then rationalise the network and fleet.

The effect was that by the end of their directorship term, GA was profitable... How did it achieve that? Of all things, they threw expansion down the vacuum toilet and their technocratic managers egos onto a running JT9D-7Q and focused on efficiency to cut costs, and to provide what the pax want... Which is reliability, flexibility and a good service. GA's notorious "unexplained" or illogical delays were gone... staff trying to extort money for rebooking were a thing of the past... and good service? Hell yeah! They called me by name while flying economy on a 1hr flight, remembered my name again when they came around for service...

One thing that former CEO then Chairman then I dunno what position he holds now with the current board of directors and commissioners is... "If you can't get your nationals wanting to fly you, then you're not going to make money!" So they did... and it worked. In those days I ran a travel agency and my customers put GA on top of their preference list... even for Long Haul... (GA's historically legendary lousy service must have been a factor in SQ's success in Indonesia's long haul market).

Unfortunately, the 2003-2005 term of Indra Setiawan's board happened. They were caretakers, originally only to hold the helm for a couple of months... Nothing happened during those years... Apart from Citilink, which was probably the only good thing in GA's product strategy (which interestingly started as a mere experiment)... Fleet plans went haywire, Hajj flight payments became so bad that GA is no longer one of the top airlines to provide hajj flights for and infact, one of the top on the to "avoid" list. Then you got the pre-98 "let's throw some planes around the network on routes that don't suit them just for the hell of it" habit... Then they tried to do what the previous board did by selling the 742s and leasing it back.. guess what, they decided to sell the seemingly with a hope that they can still use it... because there were no replacements... in the end, the 742 sale was a disaster. Oh, and they retired and reactivated the F28 countless times. F28 pilots would be thrown off to 737s and then when the fleet got reactivated, instead of moving the ex F28 crew back on multi type ratings, they decided to give other guys some F28 experience... Madness....

Now, with the previous board, the fleet plans were logical, postponement of the 777 and 73G deliveries were explained... Indra Setiawan's board decided to play "let them guess"... well, creditor's don't like that... especially when you give them "we did it within the deadline but in Indonesian, therefore it still needs to be translated to English" excuse...

This so called talks with Boeing is most likely to rebuild trust in Garuda by Boeing and I'm sure other stakeholders are getting the same treatment by the new board. Good integrated management is a relatively new thing for GA... and the same team introducing it is now back at the helm... About Bloody Time!

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

It is really hard to point at one single element as the cause of some of the trouble Garuda finds itself in. The pitcture is really not that simple and sorting things out will take a lot of effort and even more courage of the new management. We'll have to wait and see whether they really will display this courage and take the hard and unpopular measures that are necessary to start rebuilding this airline. And, even more important, we'll have to wait and see whether the powers that be in country and government will let the new guys at the helm take these measures.

A lot has to be done, because it becomes clearer by the day that the 2003-2005 management has left the airline in a dramatic state. Even the creation of Citilink, which has been praised by many as one of the best decisions of the previous management, has turned out the be a disaster, which is currently weighing heavy on Garuda's bottom line. As it turns out, the decision to replace the owned fleet of F28s by a leased in fleet of B733s has had cataclysmic effects on Citilink's financial performance, to the extent that Citilink is now regarded as a liability for Garuda. The new management has made it clear that Citilink will be spun off as soon as possible. It is unclear whether the LCC will be able to survive under current market conditions.

Going back to the topic of the addition of 24 airframes at Garuda mainline, it is premature to say the least what the future course of Garuda is going to be. The new management has been in place for less than 3 months, and is still discovering some of the engagements of the past. A first number of operational and commercial measures have been taken with schedule and route changes as well as a modified domestic fare structure as from June 1. A more comprehensive review of the airline's performance is currently under way, and as far as my input in this is concerned, here are some of the more radical propositions I have been writing about:


  • Abolition of the dual hub system and creation of a single hub network that is firmly centered around Jakarta. The Bali hub is attracting low yielding traffic, which can as well be routed through Jakarta.
  • A single hub operation is to be suppported by a high frequency shuttle operation to key domestic destinations, meaning reinforced frequencies to Denpasar (hourly), Surabaya (up to 24 daily), Semarang, Balikpapan and Medan.
  • Firmer control of the airport organization at the Jakarta hub, with a greater number of fixed gates and full control over gate assignments. Increased presence Garuda staff at the airport and reduced importance of subcontracted tasks.
  • A complete overhaul of the international operation after a through route performance analysis. Focus on key destinations and eliminations of certain underperforming secondary international destinations. Key destinations to be served daily from the Jakarta hub and interline/codeshare agreement to be put in place with partner airlines at outstations.
  • Increased utilization of the B737 fleet by introduction of regional red eye operations to destinations within a four-hour radius.
  • Schedule optimization in order Jakarta into a veritable hub airport with reduced connecting times. Introduction of a Quick Transit Center for connecting passengers at Jakarta.


As said, some of these ideas are rather radical, as they would entail a completely different approach as the the airline's operational organization thus far. But it is clear that some of these measure have the potential to save the airline a lot of money and tap into additional revenue sources. Let's wait and see what comes of it. The next couple of months are supposed to be crucial in setting out the contours of the new Garuda Indonesia.


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7199 times:

Abolition of the dual hub system and creation of a single hub network that is firmly centered around Jakarta. The Bali hub is attracting low yielding traffic, which can as well be routed through Jakarta.


Somehow, I have a feeling that GA will still keep DPS as a hub together with JKT. While hubbing thru JKT is great for consolidation, the traffic into DPS is still rather heavy. If you look at GA's international network, a HUGE amount of international flights stop in DPS, and then go on to JKT. While it is low yielding, passengers heading to Bali won't like the stop in JKT now as they would probably have "risked" their asses by flying a lesser known carrier (in the western world's opinion), to top it off, the flight is not direct?

Additonally, there will be other carriers offering direct flights to the island like SQ, AO/QF, JL, CI etc...

Unfortunately, JKT is more of a business destination than a tourist one in itself (unlike BKK) and the Indonesian tourism board would have to work hand in hand with GA should the latter decide to really make JKT into a hub. This would encourage passengers to stop over in the capital, something like what TG does with pax going to their network destinations via BKK.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6844 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

HB-IWC,
Citilink is the only "real" LCC so far in Indonesia in terms of the customer side of things... but its financial viability is of course questioned... on that side it's no more than an experiment for GA for a "direct passenger to airline payment channel". Which is why they started with the F28... Citilink's utilitisation needs to go much higher if it is to spin off... They're now doing what? <10 flight hours and 7 cycles a day per plane?

*ARMCHAIR CEO MODE=ON*  Smile

Add
"Abolition of the dual hub system and creation of a single hub network that is firmly centered around Jakarta. The Bali hub is attracting low yielding traffic, which can as well be routed through Jakarta."

with

"Increased utilization of the B737 fleet by introduction of regional red eye operations to destinations within a four-hour radius."

Would this see the end of domestic flights out of Bali? (Timika for example?) Currently the domestic hubbing system needs a look... Apart from the technical issues... having flights to stopover at UPG at unGodly hours to go to Papua doesn't look at pax comfort. They should go direct to say Timika for a stopover... The heavier 734s in GA's fleet should be able to cater for this no?

Surabaya needs better domestic connections than currently IMHO.

"A single hub operation is to be suppported by a high frequency shuttle operation to key domestic destinations, meaning reinforced frequencies to Denpasar (hourly), Surabaya (up to 24 daily), Semarang, Balikpapan and Medan."

FINALLY!!!!!!

"Firmer control of the airport organization at the Jakarta hub, with a greater number of fixed gates and full control over gate assignments. Increased presence Garuda staff at the airport and reduced importance of subcontracted tasks."

and

""Schedule optimization in order Jakarta into a veritable hub airport with reduced connecting times. Introduction of a Quick Transit Center for connecting passengers at Jakarta."

Yeah, throw that half airline (or the flying intercity buses if you put it that way) out of T2F! Being at T2F gives the advantage of faster international/domestic connections... GA should capitalize on this.

*ARMCHAIR CEO MODE=OFF*

Yes, this is "radical" for GA, but it's required... GA is stuck 75% of the way from the "old school of operations" towards proper operations while most of the competitors don't even make it half way... with the domestic competitors now smartening up their strategies, GA needs to go to the 100% level and dump the old school of thought quickly!

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
25 Laxintl : Garuda has looked at the lease of both B747 Classic and -400 freighters over the last couple of years. Garuda primarily considered operating on a CGK
26 6thfreedom : This would be a little difficult from Australia, as I dont think overflying DPS to get to CGK and then backtrack would go down well.. If GA did this,
27 Post contains images Mandala499 : A 4 hr redeye would be a nice midnight departure from Jakarta to arrive in Timika at sunrise 0001Z+7 depart, 0600Z+9 Don't make that stop in UPG, coz
28 HB-IWC : As a matter of fact, Citilinks 4 B733s have the highest utilization of the entire fleet. Since the schedule update of May 1st, Citiling operates 32 s
29 HB-IWC : Actually, there is only one daily international sector that continues in the domestic network, which is GA880 DPS-CGK-NRT. All other international fl
30 Mandala499 : HB-IWC, Thanks for the update... Night Ops available in: BTJ, MES, PDG, PKU, BTH, PLM, CGK, PNK, SRG, JOG, SUB, DPS, BPN, BDJ, PLW, UPG, KDI, MDC, TIM
31 GARUDAROD : LAXIntl- The cargo market ex-Indonesia is very strong. You have Nike and Mattel that have a huge presence there as well as the garment, furniture and
32 Post contains images Mandala499 : GARUDAROD... U could send me a copy Mandala499
33 Calvin99 : Thanks HBIWC and Mandala499 for the analysis on Garuda. I am a frequent traveller between Hong Kong and Indonesia, mainly Surabaya, and I tend to shy
34 HB-IWC : Not really. For about HK$100 more, Garuda will fly you from CGK to DPS or SUB, i.e. offer you two extra sectors CGK-DPS-CGK and therefore incur extra
35 Calvin99 : You might have misunderstand me. I am talking about the yield for CX, in which CX is able to make SUB and DPS higher yield as oppose to CGK. The pric
36 HB-IWC : You probably looked at fares for a date or combination of dates for which only higher booking classes were still available on CX flights to SUB and D
37 HB-IWC : That would be an inevitable result of centralization of the operation at Jakarta, as I have discussed above. Nothing has been decided, though, but, a
38 6thfreedom : If this is the case, I seriously suggest GA look at the traffic level India-Australia. While QF offers SYD-BOM, to travel from any other Australian p
39 HB-IWC : I am most certainly aware of that and so is Garuda, but with a multi-hub-and-spoke system, like the one currently in place, Garuda wouldn't have much
40 GARUDAROD : HB-IWC, Mandala499 Send me your email addresses and I will be glad to show you what Ive got. You can use the contact on my profile. HBIWC, Having work
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