Rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5141 times:
snip....United is informing business travelers that it has contingency plans to prevent flight disruptions should a strike occur, spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said. "We're telling customers to continue to book with confidence and that we are prepared to take whatever actions that are necessary to prevent disruption of service in case there is a strike," she said.
Travelers should also consider booking flights that depart earlier in the day. If a disruption occurs, customers would have the rest of the day to make alternative flight arrangements. .......end
The company has asked for a 48 hour recess to review the unions offer. I have a feeling that UA will use that time to not to review but to put into place procedures if the Union should walk out. I dont see them taking anything in the language seriously. Tilton has almost acheived what he wanted mostly that being a larger pension,bank account and the notariety that he was the Captian when the ship finally sunk but he'll blame the employees as he like someone else cant admit they have done anything wrong. The only thing left is for him to turn his key in.....that may come this weekend.
If the union does strike I am sure this time that it will erode consumer confidence to the point this time of no return....there are other products out there to take UA's place.
This is what happens when you place the blame and the burden of the troubles that plauge your company soley on the backs of the employees and not yourselves(Managment) A price has to be paid sorely it is the employees who pay most. In UA attempt to bust up the Unions they are going to kill themselves,what dont they(management) get?
Bankruptcy would have been an easy fix had Tilton other VPs shared in the sacrifice by giving back their bonus by placing their pension in the same pot they placed the employees last week. Moral goes a long ways.
Jaybird From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5045 times:
Having worked in the past for a large tour company whose almost entire airlift consisted of United seats to Hawaii, I'm sure United has not waited until now to develop contingency plans. Prior to the pilots strike in 85 (was '85, right?) United briefed us of their plans about 3 weeks prior to the strike date with detailed plans that were in place well before that. It's not like this entire subject has snuck up on them by surprise.
I also don't think the erosion of consumer confidence is an issue - consumers who don't have a vested interest in the company will have short memories. The length of a possible strike and the drain on finances (depending on what type of schedule United is able to operate during a strike) is what will determine the fate of the company once full services are resumed IF there is a strike.
Flightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 4842 times:
Not sure that the couple of million dollars in bonuses by the senior managers would have done much to change the billions in losses.
Also, has not every employee received a "bonus" in the form of on time performance rewards?
I believe UAL has reported in their various filings that bookings remain strong, and load factors so far this year are at historical high levels.
Is there also not some discussion that a union strike as a result of a bankruptcy court decision on the contracts would not be legal? Or would it simply result in the court de-certifying any striking union? Just speculation here....would like to see more facts on this.
Rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 2): Not sure that the couple of million dollars in bonuses by the senior managers would have done much to change the billions in losses.
You Dont get it.....Its called shared sacrifice......UAL talks to its employees with catch phrases like Teamplayer and Family. When Tilton and cronnies keep their bonuses have they really played like a teamplayer,memebers of the family.????If they would have offered that it would have diffused the fire a litttle more.
Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 2): Is there also not some discussion that a union strike as a result of a bankruptcy court decision on the contracts would not be legal? Or would it simply result in the court de-certifying any striking union? Just speculation here....would like to see more facts on this.
Lots of talk but the Union Lawyers have said that a strike would be legal and that the Railroad Act could not be invoked by mr bush because BK Law trumps the Railroad act.
F9HNLPLZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 4407 times:
Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 3): Lots of talk but the Union Lawyers have said that a strike would be legal and that the Railroad Act could not be invoked by mr bush because BK Law trumps the Railroad act.
Of course the union lawyers are going to say that. They are trying to give more credit to the union's point. IMO, the judge is going to rule in a manner that allows UAL to continue to operate and more discussions will be happening. Everyone in this power flexing right now realizes that this will hurt UAL and make the bankruptcy longer.
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
RDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
Quoting Rsmith6621a (Thread starter): This is what happens when you place the blame and the burden of the troubles that plauge your company soley on the backs of the employees and not yourselves(Managment)
Hello...Management has taken pay cuts too.
As far as the bonuses go...well if you want good leadership or even decent leadership, you have to pay for it...less they all jump ship, then you end up paying someone even more to get them to sign on with a carrier obviously in big trouble.
B744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 3278 times:
"Hello...Management has taken pay cuts too."
In proportion to the workers? Taking a pay cut after taking so much in years past plus boosting your portfolio at the companies expense is just a slap in the face to the people who actually do the work. When executives get lower salaries than over hundreds of percentages higher than their workers and stop taking so much in bonuses, options, etc. is when they can sit back and say they lead by example and deserve these salaries. If you make millions and your company looses millions each year, how is that ethical?
I was just saying to keep Sr. Leadership in place, you gotta keep them paid. There aren't too many people out there that can come into UA's current situation and turn it around...and the ones that are out there probably already work for someone else
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
1millionflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 1894 times:
Quoting Rsmith6621a (Thread starter): Bankruptcy would have been an easy fix had Tilton other VPs shared in the sacrifice by giving back their bonus by placing their pension in the same pot they placed the employees last week. Moral goes a long ways.
United has lost Billions, the management have taken 30% pay cuts and the bonuses have been gone for over a year, the whole airline is screwed no use in pointing fingers.
Rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 1728 times:
Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 12): United has lost Billions, the management have taken 30% pay cuts and the bonuses have been gone for over a year, the whole airline is screwed no use in pointing fingers.
Quote.........Nevertheless, United Chief Executive Glen Tilton, who angered many employees by taking a US$366,000 bonus that made his pay last year one of the airline industry's highest, said the airline was turning the corner.
Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 14): If a strike does occur, which pray it dosen't, will UA try to rebook their customers on US flights?
Boy you make that sound so simple.......QUESTION.....Have you flown lately????.....everyone elses flights are full....UAL customers will be just PLANE out of luck........OH!!!!!....Lets not forget that 7 other airlines Unions have agreed to support UA by walking themselves,one day of that alone ought to mess thinkgs up for at least a week if not longer. The 7 others can be ordered back to work under the Railroad act.....NOT UA.
FA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 1400 times:
Flightopsguy WELCOME TO MY RESPECTED USERS LIST!
Well said in post number 2.
I think it's important to look at both sides of the coin RSmith. Don't forget to take a step back when scolding management and review the business environment and market realities we're in right now. Our executives are some of the lowest paid in the Fortune 200 companies. For a firm like UA which generates nearly $2 billion in revenue a month, our top brass isn't making crap. Relative to corporate America, our people are getting paid towards the bottom which seems just, considering that we're still posting losses. Additionally to have management jump ship right now would be disastrous on so many levels, most importantly to firms looking to invest for our emergence from Chapter 11.
We can only hope that the IAM and UA come to an agreement soon. My gut feeling is there will be no strike regardless and that the judge or even the President will one way or another keep people working until everything is ironed out. At the end of the day... Saber rattling.
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
JayBird From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 1186 times:
Contingency plans for ticket acceptance are not publicly announced until a strike actually occurs .. agreements with other carriers for revenue tickets in all classes are generally covered .. zero value tickets (mileage tickets, pass tickets, etc.) generally are not covered .. the first couple of days are hell .. actually every day is hell but the first few days are worse .. you can expect LONG hold times getting into reservations at all airlines .. and LONG waits at the airport .. and depending on your destination available seats on other carriers will be hard to come by .. back in '85 there was no online booking system - so it will be interesting to see if some type of rebooking system will be allowed on united.com .. check-in during the '85 strike took hours since united required having passengers check-in with them first - obtaining a "fim" (flight interruption manifest) and THEN checking in with the operating airline .. throw in security screening, luggage and body searches and it won't be a pretty picture .. even those passengers who were originally ticketed for travel on other airlines will feel it ..
no matter what your "political" feeling is about the situation (union vs company, etc) everyone looses during a strike .. and it does nothing to "better" the situation - the after affects between employees and the company are felt for a long time after the strike is over .. I personally hope it doesn't happen ..
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 1175 times:
every us airline has to accept uals tickets....when vanguard,west pac and acessair went tango uniform ual had absorb the pax with only a crude type of info that they were "HK" on those airlines...i believe it was some type of law that protected the passengers off of airlines that went out of biz....and if the iam goes out at ual there will only be a ch7 no more ch11
Jaybird From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 1158 times:
the "law" (I believe) states that airlines must carry you on a stand-by basis .. that's not what I was referring to .. flying standby during a strike situation when it's united on strike is not insurance - you can't compare the millions of passengers united carries every month with vanguard, western pacific and acessair (who the heck is that?) ..
Contingency plans for covering revenue passengers on a CONFIRMED basis is only by agreement between the carrier on strike and those carriers still operating .. if an operating carrier decides it will not accept any revenue passengers on a confirmed basis it does not have to .. the carrier on strike releases a matrix which details which class of service passengers must be rebooked into on which airlines, etc .. and if those seats are not available - you fly standby .. and the agreements can (and do) change at any time ..