Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Plane Crash In The Philippines  
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Posted (14 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

AP reports that there has been a plane crash in the Philippines today. Reports have it that the entire complement of 120 aboard the Air Philippines flight are feared dead. No info on plane type or cause.

Hmmmm...


An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJubilee777 From Singapore, joined May 1999, 528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (14 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

It was a B737-200.
The wreckage has reportedly been found.
 

J777


User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

This is the nation's worst plane crash since the DC-9 crash that killed all 104 people when it crashed into a mountain a few years back. I don't know the name of the airline but I think it was a charter and probably belonged to the Philippines.


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

Could the rudder be the culprit in this crash?

User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

If all aboard are dead as fered, this will be the Philippines' worst crash ever. The DC-9 crash there was Cebu Pacific Air, and occured February 2, 1998.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (14 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Just watching the GMTV morning news here in the UK and it is confirmed that all 131 on board (tragically including 6 babies) were killed; footage showed that there were very few pieces of identifiable wreckage - I could only see the engine.

Looking at the JP, Air Philippines has an extremely old 737 fleet; of its 9 737-200s, seven are ex United, ALL of which are over 30 years old (LN 42 was built in 1967). The other two are both 78/9 build. Rudder failure is indeed a possibility as the aircraft was circling, but do also bear in mind that corrosion and fatigue could be a factor. Weather was not mentioned as a factor and seemed fine in the footage shown.


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5036 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (14 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Can you say "rudder problem" ?


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (14 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

What about #6, delivered 9/9/67? (RPC2021).


The only ones less than 30 years old are the ex Southwest planes, which are only in their early 20's. CNN says that the plane has been in service for 22 years, which means that it WAS an ex Southwest plane (former N50SW-N53SW).


Right now we know that it was an Air Philippenes 737-200, flight 541 from Manilla to Davo



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

As a spotter that has visited the Philippines on many different trips I feel very sorry to hear this news. I have been on the Ramp at Manila and taken most of their fleet. Nice photos of the 737-200's and YS-11's

Very, Very Sad.

Daryl


User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

I just love you guys. Why not quote the whole thing before you start blaming the rudder. The plane was CIRCLING to LAND. If it was an A320 and not a 737 would you guys be so quick to jump to a conclusion about the rudder?

PANMAN


User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (14 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Panman is right.... at least wait for the accident investigations. Only few accidents are caused by too old aircraft or technical/design problems... Till now, this seems more a typical approach accident. Smaller third world country-airports don't have good ILS-facilities, many accidents do happen because the airliner is off course and crashes into ground or high terrain. But let's wait for more news first.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Because the crash involved a 737, of course someone will think of the rudder. If it was an A320, the computer FBW system would be the main cause of concern.

User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Just saw this on PPRUNE, written by The Guvnor:

"The aircraft that went down was a 1978 B737-200 Advanced, registration RP-C3010; s/n 21447 and line number 508. The aircraft was powered by the Pratt & Whitney JT8D-9A engines.

It was originally operated by US-based Southwest Airlines when it was registered as N50SW, It was purchased in November 1998 by AAR Aircraft & Engine Group and stored. Air Philippines leased it from March 1999 to December 2001."

panman


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

Heard on the news last night that a passenger on the plane called a relative and told them that there was an explosion on the plane before the plane crashed. Wonder if faulty wiring on the plane was the cause (TWA 800)?

User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

This is one of the latest aircraft they received and it was the second newest in the 737 fleet.

I however did not see this aircraft as it entered the fleet after my last visit.

Daryl


User currently offlineVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (14 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Below is a link to the list of all the passengers who were on board, if there's any of us out there concerned or worried about people we may have known travelling who could have been on board...

http://www.mb.com.ph/flash/2000/april/19aflb.asp


User currently offline777x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Stop your useless scaremongering! Neither appears to be the case, but anyway it's FAR too early to start jumping to conclusions.

News stories today indicate that visibility was poor and the airport had no ILS, and had just reopened after being closed due to below minima conditions.



User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

I am flying on a 737 late this month and next month, so of course this crash is bothering me so much!

User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Rudder?
Faulty Wiring?

What a load of crap - people are drawing conclusions while the wreckage is still smouldering. Have you been to the crash site? Are you an accident investigator? What are you basing these assumptions on?

Stop drawing unfounded conclusions based on non-existent evidence. It's complete rubbish to say because a 747's fuel tank exploded, or there was possibly a rudder problem involved in 2 737 accidents 9 and 6 years ago, then they are likely to be the cause here.

Kaitak, I expected more from you - suspecting the rudder because the plane was circling - How many 737s circle every day? BTW - In the Colorado Springs/Pittsburgh accidents the aircraft weren't turning when the upsets occured.

Lets wait for some proper evidence and allow the experts to draw their conclusions.

At this time you should be thinking about people who have just lost their friends and families - not guessing what happened

TEDSKI, you've nothing to worry about flying on a 737!

James


User currently offlineGLA MD11 From France, joined Mar 2000, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

I agree with you guys, stop criticizing the 737.
All that can be said for the moment is that it was a very old aircraft, operated with an airline that is not exactly 1st class for safety and maintenance, trying to land on a underequiped airport.
All the rest is only speculation.


User currently offlineGoooooaaal From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (14 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

My condolences to the families of those killed in this deadly crash.

I just would like some explanation of why civil aviation has such a poor safety record in Southeast Asia and the Western Pacific...


User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (14 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

I think what Kaitak was getting at when he mentioned that the plane was circling, is that when the 737 is configured for approach with flaps at 1, with weights greater than 110,000 lbs, and flying slow below 190 knts, below what they call the crossover speed, its ailerons do not produce enough lateral force to counteract the sideslip-induced roll produced as a result of an uncommanded full rudder deflection, should it occur. This is why some airlines, such as USAir, have instructed their pilots to come in faster than normal, to minimize the time spent in this vulnerable part of the flight envelope.

ALPA report on USAir427

We can begin to speculate as to the cause as soon as we know the nature of the crash. If we find out that it hit a mountain, flying too low, then we can forget about the rudder. If, however, it went nose first from 6,000 feet, for no apparent reason in clear weather, then we know that the serial killer has struck again.

Hmmmm...



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3650 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (14 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

I agree with you guys.
At this time we cannot say that the disaster of flight 541 bound from Manila was due to a faulty rudder system. How many 737 disasters involved rudders within the last 35 years? Two. United 585 in Colorado (1991) and US Air 427 in Pittsburg (1994). How many 737's fly everyday? Hundreds. At any time, over 800 737's are in the air. A 737 incident is not always due to the rudder.
Airline officials had said that there was nothing abnormal with the aircraft before departure.The aircraft's records in the maintenance log book show that it had no particular problem. This particular Boeing 737 was a 200 built 22 years ago. The 737-200 was built between 1966 and 1988, more than 1100 of those were made.

It is said that the cause of the crash is related to the weather; I really think so. There were low cloud layers and the Davo airport was not ILS equipped! When attempting an instrument approach, if the visibility is less than minimums published on the approach charts then the pilot must execute a go around, redo the approach or go to an other airport. The Cockpit Voice Recorder has been retreived from the crash site but the Flight Data Recorder is not recovered yet. I'm convinced that the cause of the crash is due to the weather which was below minimum and the lack of proper equipment for instrument approaches. Wait till you see what the Flight Data Recorder shows before you blame it on the rudder!

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineGoooooaaal From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (14 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

My condolences to the families of those killed in this deadly crash.

My question is why such a terrible safety record for civil aviation in Southeast Asia and the Pacific Rim...


User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (14 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

This is a terrible incident, especially when some so young die so soon. My condolences.

Though it's too soon to be drawing conclusions as to what the cause was, I'm not sure how many people are going to be wary of setting foot in a 737-200 or another old a/c after they hear the tragic news of the PAL crash, especially in a developing nation. Remember what happened to the DC-10 in the '70s? Many people tried rebooking flights or alternative modes of transportation just to avoid the DC-10, especially after the AA crash in Chicago. The DC-10 is actually a safe plane to fly in. The 737-200 actually has a better safety record than most Boeing aircraft!

Personally, I wouldn't worry about flying in a 737-200 or any other old plane flown by Canadian or any other North American carrier. These are often maintained very well, despite their age. It's more likely to do with the airline's maintenance record and airport facilities and how well their pilots handle their planes, rather than some defect in the plane's mechanism.

Unfortunately, many airlines and airports in developing nations do not have safety record as good as those in richer countries. Often, it is due to lack of suitable facilities because they're too expensive. Pilots may be undertrained compared to their counterparts in developed countries. Or the airline has a poor safety record because of either serious corruption, (I've seen cases like that, as some third-world carriers may try to save face or avoid censure by their governments or the FAA.) or they simply cannot afford the maintenance costs.


25 SFO : The ill fated carrier is Air Philippines not PAL (Philippine Airlines.) Air Philippines was one of several upstart Philippine carriers that started op
26 Post contains images Teahan : Stop fighting and pray for the victims and families!
27 Samurai 777 : Thanks for correcting me on this one. I'd hate to get burned for confusing one airline with another. You'd be amazed at how many people confuse Wester
28 Hmmmm... : It's funny. Right now we don't know any of the details on this crash other than it was a 737. Yet, on one hand, some posters tell us not to speculate
29 Jet Setter : Hope I'm not drawing any unfounded conlusions, but this information is from today's paper; The airport had been closed a short while before the 737 ma
30 Samurai 777 : The Air Philippines(not to be confused with PAL!) 737-200 was said to have undergone a routine maintenance check just prior to taking off from Manila.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Bomb Assembled On Plane 2x In The Philippines posted Fri Sep 1 2006 16:32:38 by ChicagoFlyer
Plane Crash In The Congo posted Thu May 26 2005 10:43:59 by JoKeR
Pacific Air Crash In The Philippines posted Thu Oct 31 2002 19:02:36 by Heinz
Why Did The FedEx Plane Crash In Cast Away? posted Sun Mar 24 2002 23:27:32 by Bobcat
Plane Crash In Moscow posted Thu Oct 12 2006 12:06:48 by Tom3
Plane Crash In Afghanistan posted Wed Jul 26 2006 17:07:26 by PUnmuth@VIE
End Of The Cebu Pacific DC9 Era In The Philippines posted Sat Jul 15 2006 16:28:34 by Lufthansa747
Tragic Plane Crash In Mexico posted Wed Jul 12 2006 17:39:37 by LPLAspotter
GA Plane Crash In Tampa, FL posted Mon Jun 12 2006 19:12:11 by CptSpeaking
Plane Crash In Gainsville FL posted Sun Apr 16 2006 22:23:16 by AirTran737