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HP/US Will This Spell The End To BA's LHR-PHX  
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5178 times:

Now with this merger happening I would assume the end is near for the BA LHR-PHX-LHR flights with no feed to HP. That will be a sad sight to see BA leaving our great city of PHX. Would HP/US also lose the VS codeshare also? I would assume so...many changes to come. What are your thoughts on the possibility of keeping the London flights to PHX?


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Someone asked if we had plans to start European service after the merger. The answer was no. There isn't high enough demand for the service. They did not anticipate any changes with the current codeshare. However if we remain in the Star....and BA is OneWorld....who knows what will happen. If by chance BA decided to pull out...then they might consider it.

User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

I would think HP/US would want this route then.


Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

I would think HP/US would want this route then.

If BA did drop the route and HP/US wanted it, it would have to return to the PHX-LGW that BA originally started. We'll see...



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5073 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 1):
Someone asked if we had plans to start European service after the merger. The answer was no. There isn't high enough demand for the service. They did not anticipate any changes with the current codeshare. However if we remain in the Star....and BA is OneWorld....who knows what will happen. If by chance BA decided to pull out...then they might consider it.

I would have to think that the British Airways PHX-LHR codeshare would remain. After all, US Airways and Qantas have a mileage agreement (though I don't believe a codeshare agreement, I may be wrong, I'm not sure if US codeshares on QF's LAX-AKL/BNE/MEL/SYD routes, or if QF codeshares on US' LAX-CLT/PHL/PIT routes), and last I checked, Qantas was in oneWorld and US Airways in Star Alliance.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3123 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5054 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 4):
Qantas was in oneWorld and US Airways in Star Alliance.

You used to be able to earn QF frequent flyer points on some US Airways services but there is no codeshare arrangement. HP on the other hand and QF have an agreement for service through to Phoenix and Vancouver, (or is it Edmonton), I cant remember off the top of my head. But you dont see a HP code on QF services to Australia.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 4985 times:

Question: Could UA operate PHX-LHR?

That would certainly be the ideal, if Bermuda II allows it.

Steve


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

No, UA could not operate PHX-LHR nonstop. PHX is not one of the designated Bermuda II gateways. BA is able to service LHR from PHX because it is a British carrier and is allowed to operate to US cities from LHR that have more than a certain amount of passengers and if there is no US carrier on the route. Hence, why BA was able to move DEN, SAN and PHX from LGW to LHR, but not DFW, IAH and ATL. I assume that if US started LGW-PHX that BA would have to move the route back to LGW.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Interesting topic; I and others were discussing this exact question in another thread.

It is my personal opinion that the BA codeshare is history if the merger goes through. The new USAirways will be an integral part of the Star Alliance, and the current BA/HP codeshare is a little too close for there to not to be some conflict of interest issues.

So, alas, I think this spells the end of PHX-LHR on BA. They will not be able to sustain a nonstop flight without the valuable HP feed. Nevertheless, I don't believe that transatlantic service will disappear from PHX. I think it is entirely possible that we will see US mainline or Lufthansa (re)start flights to Frankfurt. There has got to be more than enough traffic connecting through these two hubs to make one, or even several, flights profitable.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

I don't know why BA still has the HP codeshare in the first place. Every single city that BA codeshares to via HP in PHX, with the exceptions of Bakersfield, CA and Flagstaff, AZ, could be reached via AA at their hubs. There is no reason, at least that I can see, to keep the codeshare going except perhaps if the LHR-PHX flight depends on the codeshares to be profitable. But, if the HP codeshare was phased out, couldn't they just downgauge to a 777 and still fill the plane? I would think PHX has enough demand on its own to fill a 777 to London.

User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

What about the cargo traffic between LHR-PHX could that also help to keep the route alive? A possible downgrade to the 772 or 763 like "Commavia" was saying could be the answer. Also even though I wish the current service was daily maybe BA could reduce to 3X or 4X weekly service to keep the flight.


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineRj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1861 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Of course, if BA Gets the 777LR, they wouldn't need the codeshare. They could do a direct nonstop.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33039 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Phoenix can hold a daily (well, 6x weekly) service to London on it's own. I doubt the America West codeshare is hugely crucial to suporting the service.


a.
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

AV8AJET: That's a good point--it is said that SAN's service didn't work because the 777 had to take a cargo weight penalty; since PHX doesn't have this problem, perhaps BA could make a go of it relying on cargo. Nevertheless, I'm still not very optimistic if they can't get some sort of feed.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

SAN contributes sometimes up to 50 pax on the PHX-LHR flight, this is why HP has a 757 running between SAN-PHX to connect to it.

If HP/US join STAR - the BA flight is probably history. However, it opens up opportunities as well like a return of LH.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Phoenix can hold a daily (well, 6x weekly) service to London on it's own. I doubt the America West codeshare is hugely crucial to suporting the service.

I agree. In addiation, It would seem BA could do better than HP/US on the route if the code share was termianted because BA has more logical feed at either LHR or LGW than HP does @ PHX.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 4):
I would have to think that the British Airways PHX-LHR codeshare would remain. After all, US Airways and Qantas have a mileage agreement (though I don't believe a codeshare agreement, I may be wrong, I'm not sure if US codeshares on QF's LAX-AKL/BNE/MEL/SYD routes, or if QF codeshares on US' LAX-CLT/PHL/PIT routes), and last I checked, Qantas was in oneWorld and US Airways in Star Alliance.

I'm thinking the same thing. I can't see HP giving up the BA relationship irregardless of Star membership. I think Doug knows how upset some would be with the loss of such a quality partner. I think LH should look at establishing a codeshare out of LAS.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineExpressjetphx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

If the BA codeshare was ended, the new US could consider bringing LH back into the PHX market, considering they're in Star. From what I understand, load factors weren't a problem for the LH flights, it was yields (i.e. too many pax paying discount fares & sitting in economy), so maybe a codeshare could help bring in more premium pax for LH. And BA could always drop down to a 763ER or 772 and just fly the route on its own.

User currently offlineAussiestu From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

Would truelly hate to see BA drop another US route due to the merger. I would hope that BA can maintain this route even without a codeshare and hope that it does. Cannot see it being a priority in the HP/US deal but may happen eventually. Hopefully the number crunchers at BA can come up with figures that make it profitable for BA to maintain. BA AT PHX TO STAY!!

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting Expressjetphx (Reply 17):
it was yields (i.e. too many pax paying discount fares & sitting in economy),

And what makes them think it would be any different this time around? PHX is a low yield city. Personally, I'll take BA over LH.

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 15):
It would seem BA could do better than HP/US on the route if the code share was termianted because BA has more logical feed at either LHR or LGW than HP does @ PHX.

I agree. HP couldn't even hope to compete with BA for intra-England traffic. bmi? yeah, ok.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33039 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 16):
I think LH should look at establishing a codeshare out of LAS.

Why? Lufthansa does not fly to Las Vegas. Their leisure airline, Condor, does. Condor is a holiday airline and does not codeshare. They operate long-hauls to holiday destinations that are low-yield and aren't suitable for Lufthansa to operate full-fare service to. In the US, these are Anchorage, Fairbanks, Fort Myers, Las Vegas, and Orlando.



a.
User currently offlineExpressjetphx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19):
And what makes them think it would be any different this time around?

The fact that they would have the benefit of the codeshare with the new US Airways for feeding more premium pax from all over the West Coast, in addition to the O&D traffic in Phoenix.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19):
Personally, I'll take BA over LH.

So would I, but I'm not sure Star Alliance thinks the same way. I'd like to have both flying in, just so we get the service, but then again, I'd also like PHX to be the next JFK and it's not going to happen anytime soon. Even if they did drop the codeshare, a combination of 6x weekly BA 772 or 763ER and Daily LH A342/343 or 332 could probably work (BA revenue coming from pax as well as valuable PHX-London cargo ops), although obviously I'd prefer 744s from both airlines, or an LH A346/BA 744 combo.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 10):
A possible downgrade to the 772 or 763 like "Commavia" was saying could be the answer.



Quoting Expressjetphx (Reply 17):
And BA could always drop down to a 763ER or 772 and just fly the route on its own.

...keep in mind that even a daily 763ER might run afoul of the required biannual minima for maintaining LHR service.

Quoting Rj777 (Reply 11):
Of course, if BA Gets the 777LR, they wouldn't need the codeshare. They could do a direct nonstop.

...what on Earth are you talking about???


User currently offlineRJ777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1861 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Can't the 7772LR Do PHX-LHR Nonstop?

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Quoting Expressjetphx (Reply 21):
The fact that they would have the benefit of the codeshare with the new US Airways for feeding more premium pax from all over the West Coast, in addition to the O&D traffic in Phoenix.

Well that's if HP dumps BA. LH will have to present a more compelling reason than "Star alliance" membership to get HP to dump PHX-LHR nonstop access and end the relationship that BA-HP have established over the years. The city of Phoenix also likes this access as well.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
25 ExFATboy : Presuming that NewUS stays in Star, then I'd think that at some point Star would expect the legacy-HP relationship with BA to end and start funnelling
26 AceFreighter : Don't worry about the LHR-PHX at the moment - only around 15-20pct of the customers are connecting, so even IF the codeshare was terminated there woul
27 HZ747300 : Before they went to 744 6x/week, the service was daily on a 772. So the 772LR could do it no problemo.
28 LUC : Everybody is talking about connecting passenger in PHX, but there is also the aspect of connecting passengers in LHR. After 9/11, I and many of my col
29 Flyboyaz : True! I worked at BA in PHX for a while. It was when we had a 744 and the SAN stop. We had a pretty good amount of people connecting from HP, but I w
30 Gigneil : A regular 777-200ER can do it just fine. They codeshare beyond PHX. HP/US would be hard pressed to compete on this route at this time... the only pla
31 Jmc1975 : Possibly a PHX-MAN segment would work better, with outbound connections on bmi throughout Europe. Also if the merger goes through and HP/US are in St
32 FlyCaledonian : Why does a merged HP/US being in Star have to mean the end of the BA codeshare? QF and AF have established a codeshare through SIN to enable QF to ser
33 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : easily, as can a myriad of other aircraft... I'm still not seeing your point here. ...how can HP dump what they don't have, to begin with?
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