BrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1291 posts, RR: 2 Posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10736 times:
Now that the A350 design is being refined it seems like Airbus' plan is to produce an all new airplane family that will go head to head with the Boeing 777 but not only. It could very well be that the A350 will be positioned just like the A320 family, offering a series of stretched solutions. One can then imagine that there could be an A350 to replace the A310 and B767-200, one to replace the A300 and B767-300/400, one to replace the A330-200 and one to replace the A330-300 and B777-200s; perhaps even all 777s and A340s!
This would mean that Airbus, after renewing the A320 family, would be capable to offer a comprehensive solution to cover airline needs from 100 to 600 seats by reasonable steps. Only the unlikelihood of an A380 shrink would leave a portion of that range somewhat orphan.
Where Airbus would cover the market with 3 families, Boeing would still need 4 product lines i.e. an all new 737 replacement, the 787, the 777 and something at the top to replace 747-400s if they intend to get a share of that market.
Are you sharing this opinion, do you see it coming, do you think the A350 program will not be that ambitious? Have a go. Thread started!
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10671 times:
I fully agree with what Keesje wrote. Plus that a A350 will hardly make a ideal A300 replacement as the A300 is a short-and mediumhaul aircraft. The A350s wings are too big. And a A350 with different wings is a different aircraft.
So the A350 will just be what it is, the replacement of the A330 and A340-300.
FlyingInTheSky From Kuwait, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10508 times:
The A350 was introduced when Boeing presented their B787 ,and the main objective for these aircraft is to cover short to medium range or maybe a little longer ,So I can Imagine how the A350 will look like .
I would say it will cover most likely short to medium range replacing the A300/A310/A332 also B737 & B767 .
Quoting Keesje (Reply 1): Also replacing 777-300ER/A340-500/600 seems unlikely..
Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2824 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10456 times:
Airbus always seems to take this approach - intro a plane and then procede to shrink/stretch it, whereas Boeing appears to have learnt that it's best to get the basic frame and stretch the hell out of it.
In terms of what the market wants, Boeing's on the nail with the 787 as a 767/A310/A300 replacement. I suspect the new single aisle design will span the 120-200 seat bracket, enabling a single family to replace the 757 as well as 737s.
Ap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10235 times:
According to media reports some time back there was a specific project meant for the replacement of the a300/a310. This aircraft was known as the p305 and later as the a305. It would have been all new and targeted the short/medium range market. This aircraft would have also spawned an eventual rival rangewise to the 787. I guess Airbus decided it would make more sense to do a long range a/c derived from the a330 first rather than wait and develop a complete all new family.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10194 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 6): Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...
Is it really nessessary to hijack every airbus post with such comments? There are many more threads at the moment where you could have posted this appropriatly. These posts are spoiling perfectly good discussions.
GodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2753 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10123 times:
If Boeing can replace everything from the 752 to the 764/772 with the 787 why should Airbus not be able to replace the same range of planes with it's new product?
I often have the impression that many people here think that the 787 will be the last step of aircraft development and nothing will ever be able to beat it nor come close to it.
Reality for sure will look different, 30 years from now airlines will replace them by a new state of the art and unbeatable aircraft.
Considering that you can often hear that the 787 will replace the 772 than it might not take so long until the 787 finds a replacement a/c...
PM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7125 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9944 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 10): I would definitely call Airbus giving $250 million to a merging American airline so they can become the launch customer for a market flop of an aircraft "bribery."
You can call it whatever you like but the aerospace world is full of buyer/supplier relationships that are less than "free and fair". Remember what happened when El Al wanted A330s? How many planes have GECAS bought that don't have GE/CFM engines? Talking of GECAS, what about their involvement with a number of ailing US airlines? Saudia was about to buy RR Trents for their 777s but then someone in Washington DC made a phone call... As I've said elsewhere, I don't mind people pointing out the distortions in the market. What I don't like is the holier-than-thou attitude from those who believe that only the opposition do such things.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9930 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 8): Besides I would not call it bribery but this is discussed in a lot of other threads here......
No it's just putting a gun to an airlines head and making them an offer they can't refuse...either their signature will be on it or their brains. Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing. I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they and have a a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.
BTW, I wonder if this can be considered anti-competitive as Airbus has forced US Airways to make Airbus a sole source supplier?
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8686 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9816 times:
I have a feeling that Airbus will not only announce 350 orders at the Paris Show, but will also announce additional version of the 350. I also believe that they will increase their stated competitive position against the 787. the key is if they will put their money where their mouth is in terms of guaranteed performance when it comes time to write orders.
I believe that the initial 350 was rushed in order to dampen the 787's initial reception and that Airbus has had time to mature their thinking about the design. It should be a better plane than they initially disclosed and it should be reasonably close to the 787 in terms of economy. The challenge will be having a competitive cost per seat, not only in operational areas, but also in purchase price.
While I love the concepts of the 787 I hope Airbus can have a solid plane to compete with. We should see in Paris.
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 6224 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9796 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 12): Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...
Quoting EI321 (Reply 12): Is it really nessessary to hijack every airbus post with such comments? There are many more threads at the moment where you could have posted this appropriatly. These posts are spoiling perfectly good discussions.
Exactly. Sometimes the inflammatory comments completely discredit otherwise valid arguments, and it ruins the conversation for everyone.
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18): Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing.
Well, it's up to US/HP to decide what's best for them. It sounds like they have quite a bit of financial support for the merger, so they probably could have lived without the Airbus deal. I agree that they likely would not have ordered new planes at this time, but if it works for them, why not?
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18): I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they and have a a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.
It's comments like this that make every Boeing supporter (such as myself) look bad. What purpose does it serve to throw statements out like this? They've obviously got a few things up their sleeve for the Paris Air Show, which no one should be surprised by, and they've also sold a good hunk of planes over the past five years that I doubt were all done through bribery.
As much as I like Boeing, it's hard to see how you benefit them or their supporters by making these comments.
PM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7125 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9763 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18): Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing. I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they and have a a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.
I hope you will agree that that is not how Airbus sold 3,500 A320s or sold more A300s/A310s/A330s/A340s than Boeing sold 767s/777s... Are you really suggesting that Airbus would invest $6,000,000,000 developing a model that they could only force on airlines? If so, then your prejudices are elbowing aside your common sense.
Given that the aircraft is much bigger, I don't see that this is the case except for special deals, which of course are the rule with sales. I don't think the list price of the A350 could be lower than the 787.
: They could have asked Boeing for a similar deal. It is their decision to take the offer or look somewhere else for loans. It is nothing but a deal no
: i can see a reflection of that aircraft in your username. So as you say, that defunct a/p305 metamorphosed into A350? rgds VT-ASJ
: The 787 is primarily a long-to-ultra-long-haul aircraft. The 787-3 is a bit of an afterthought. The A350 is not going to cover the short or medium ra