B744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2057 times:
What nonsense. How long do these employees have to go through this? It's obvious this is just giving management more time to threaten the Unions and get them to bow down like they always are forced to do in the end. Strike another one down for ethics, the blind greed of capitalism at its best
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2021 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 7): Or a chance for the two parties to make a last minute agreement?
Yes...better to offer another 10 days than to see everything collapse. It's only details on the new pension that remain. 10 days should be more than enough to work on that and get it resolved. I think they'll have it done well before then.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10631 posts, RR: 62 Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1963 times:
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 8): Yes...better to offer another 10 days than to see everything collapse. It's only details on the new pension that remain. 10 days should be more than enough to work on that and get it resolved. I think they'll have it done well before then.
If indeed this is the only remaining sticking point between the two, than I agree that 10 days should be enough time to clear this up. However, at what level of determination are UA and IAM, respectively, approaching these negotiations?
Is UA going into the next ten days of probably round-the-clock negotiations with the stated principle that, "the pensions must go, no ifs, ands, or buts," and is IAM going in saying, "if you want our pensions, you'll have to survive a strike to get them?" If UA is essentially saying the pensions must go and IAM is saying hell no, then is their a middle ground for compromise? Could they agree on a new funding schedule for the pensions, or would UA not be satisfied with this?
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1938 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 12): However, at what level of determination are UA and IAM, respectively, approaching these negotiations?
A very high level, based on the progress made in the last few days...both parties don't want a strike, neither do the creditors, or the judge. There's a strong enough belief on all sides that this can get done in 10 days or less. Like I said, I think it will be done before then.
Quoting Commavia (Reply 12): Is UA going into the next ten days of probably round-the-clock negotiations with the stated principle that, "the pensions must go, no ifs, ands, or buts," and is IAM going in saying, "if you want our pensions, you'll have to survive a strike to get them?" If UA is essentially saying the pensions must go and IAM is saying hell no, then is their a middle ground for compromise? Could they agree on a new funding schedule for the pensions, or would UA not be satisfied with this?
Well, the defined benefit pensions ARE gone, assuming the ruling made last Tuesday isn't overruled by an appellate court. What is being negotiated now are the details behind the REPLACEMENT pension plan, which will now be a defined contribution plan. Once it's settled, then the tentative agreement will be announced.
So, by the end of the day on May 31st, we'll know:
- the outcome of the vote for the AMFA tentative agreement
- the potential ruling on the IAM contract, assuming there is no agreement reached.
- most likely the fate of United Airlines....
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1884 times:
Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 14): Kahala,
No offense, but what is it with you and UA? Why do you hate them so much, and why do you put down everyone who is optimistic about them?
I have friends who work for them and despise UA. So, I just listen to them and repeat whatever they tell me. I don't have a good reason myself and actually know very little about UA, so just take whatever I say with a grain of salt.
You seemed to LOVE UA last year when you posted as lhr001. What happened? It was clearly something you are unable to let go of. You continue to post meaningless, immature lines about UA that do nothing to further the discussion. Many post against UA, but at least maintain an intelligent discussion with valid questions. You say that "unfortunately" UA has not gone out of business yet and that VCV will soon be the UA hub. What kind of person would do this? Your emotions and insecurities are so thinly veiled it's worrying.
Please tell us Kahala777/lhr001. Most people do not hide the reasons they have such a strong dislike for an airline (although yours seems to be irrationally off the charts). Anybody with 1% objectivity would admit that UA does have some incredible strengths (its route system for one), regardless of whatever other issues are going on. You yourself praised UA for their amazing Asian network last year.
Scotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1762 times:
I think the sticking point is the pension plan.The IAM want to replace the UAL pensions with their own defined benefit plan. But, the agreement between UAL and the PBGC calls for UAL to replace their defaulted plans with a 401K type arrangement. I guess their fingers are already burned from the first one!
To say Wedoff has been lenient with UAL management is an understatement! It seems he has bent over backwards and agreed to almost everything that has been placed before him. Even to the point of "illegally" attempting to forfeit lessors rights to claims on their own property.
This is not to bash UAL and all their dedicated employees. But, come on folks, where is the plan? OK, so we get these agreements in place, all our ducks are in a row, but there is no plan, at least that I can see.
RampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1469 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
Well the media missed one big thing that happen. The judge ruled in favor of the IAM. He told United that their numbers were way off.
May 20, 2005
One For Us
Release time: 1:30 p.m. CDT
Dear Sisters and Brothers,
In a dramatic conclusion to the 1113(c) bankruptcy trial in Chicago, the judge refused to terminate IAM labor agreements and urged both sides to return to the bargaining table and negotiate a fair and equitable settlement.
Judge Eugene Wedoff deferred his final ruling until May 31, 2005 on United’s motion to abrogate contracts covering nearly 20,000 IAM members at United Airlines. IAM attorneys, representatives and financial experts argued in court that the carrier’s financial demands were unfair to IAM members and would have required substantially more sacrifice than other employee groups at the bankrupt airline.
Your Negotiating Committee and the IAM’s legal team have been working around the clock without sleep for three days. We will now take a brief break, recharge and resume our work of negotiating a fair and equitable agreement.
We hope to negotiate a fair settlement, but that would require a willing partner, and if UAL is not willing to bargain in good faith, today’s decision only delays the inevitable.
Thank you for your outstanding support and solidarity.
S.R. (Randy) Canale
President & Directing
Hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2132 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
There is one other side to this IMHO
The IAM painted themselves into a corner with the stand that they would strike on a court imposed contract. So any delay saves the AFL-CIO group as none of the other unions on the property have specifically stated they would instruct their personnel to honor an IAM line. In the past that language is released days ahead of any potential action by another union on the property as a show of force. Not here. In fact ALPA, for one, has been extremely quiet and only has stated that they would support any legal strike making the inference that any action possibly would not be legal without going thru the full RLA procedures.
Aa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
Good news for all at UA. I really believe that an agreement will be reached. Just a guess, but one day next week. I know it has been a long hard bumpy road, but it is almost over and then you can move on with emerging from CH11. The fall prediction of exiting CH11 is looking good!
Do you think the IAM really cares if ALPA supports a strike? The ALPA employees have been screwing the IAM employees at United for decades. The straw that broke the camels back was what they did to the IAM employees in the summer of 2000. I feel the ball is in the IAM's court for once. We the IAM members have control of the future of United, and not ALPA. As usual ALPA agrees to a new contract before any other group, and usally takes a 20% paycut. That leaves the other work groups to pick up the rest. Then ALPA employees brag how they were the first ones to agree to wage cuts, etc. They are the ones that want to save the airline, what BS.
I don't know how many pilots have came up to me the last few days acting like they are my buddy. They never gave me the time of day before. Why are they acting nice all of a sudden?
Just a few days ago AMFA came to the IAM and wanted to work together. The IAM told them to get lost. The IAM has support of trade unions in Japan and Europe on this issue.
F9HNLPLZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1607 times:
The time to come to an agreement is now. Both sides need to come to the table in good faith and realize this must be done. United Mgt., needs to figure out what will make the IAM somewhat happy so things can go on. The IAM, needs to accept the fact that pensions are gone, and they are joining the rest of the American public and having a 401K.
The one question that comes to my mind for the IAM: Why are you shopping for someone to rule that you can strike? Maybe they figured out its not legal? I am sure someone will step in and not allow it to happen. If if does take place, I am sure the IAM will be fined as in the case of the pilot's union at American Airlines. Remember IAM, you have already cost another airline and it people their jobs, (EASTERN). Don't do it again or that union is considered the "KISS OF DEATH".
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???