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SWA And Autothrottle  
User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

I know Southwest doesn't have the autothrottle or autobrake systems hooked up in their 737s, but here's my question, if I'm not mistaken, one of the benefits of the autothrottle system is it provides better fuel burn, with fuel prices where they are does anyone think it's possible SWA may implement the system as a means of lowering fuel costs? As I understand it, it'd just be a matter of 'plugging in' the system.

Just a thought.

-jlk


Go Cubs!
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 437 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

I thought SWA was happy with the job the pilots were doing with regard to fuel burn. I remember reading memos in the past thanking pilots for doing such a good job at lowering fuel costs.

flying_727



On ATA, You're On Vacation
User currently offlineSWAbubba From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Actually, we do use the rejected takeoff function of the autobrakes. We're also looking into using autobrakes at other times, but nothing official has come out yet.

Haven't heard anything about autothrottles in a while, but if it saves us money you can bet we'll do it sooner or later.


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

I wonder fly they can't use them, it takes another step away from the crews to concentrate on flying the airplane. Like all CFIs will say, Just fly the damn airplane! So why not make it a little easier.

User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4465 times:
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The idea I beleive was to keep the pilots attention focused on flying the airplane. With today's high levels of automation, a pilot can have some flights where he hardly touches the stick from takeoff to touchdown. Making them always work the throttles is a way of ensuring their pilots don't get complacent or "rusty" from this.

Plus, having to manually work the throttle isn't that big of a deal. Everyone else not flying heavy iron gets by just fine without an autothrottle.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4820 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4339 times:
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I believe the reason why Southwest decided not to have Autothrottle, Autobrakes and VNAV on their 737s was for Pilot certification issues and fleet commonality when the 737-200s were in the fleet. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it had something to do with that.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 5):
I believe the reason why Southwest decided not to have Autothrottle, Autobrakes and VNAV on their 737s was for Pilot certification issues and fleet commonality when the 737-200s were in the fleet. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it had something to do with that.

Thats pretty much the reason why, from what I was told when I was employed by WN.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSeven3Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

SWA has always been behing the times in terms of technology. I think the good ol' boys in Dallas are just afraid of it. But they are good pilots and they definitely want us in the loop.

We started using LNAV about 7 or 8 years ago. Never have used autothrottles or vnav. We now use the rejected takeoff function of the autobrakes and check airman are doing a study now on landing functions.

We just got ACARS for weather and messaging, hopefully it will be used soon for clearances and gate information.

They're now looking at the electronic flight bag which I hope comes sooner than later.

I personally like flying the airplane on climb and approach so no autothrottles is fine by me there. But I do think they should allow them to be used at cruise where the plane could do a better job of saving fuel.

Of course there are a lot of people on this site who think there's no way I could be a SWA pilot. They think I'm full of crap that there is only one 737 type rating for all models in the U.S So they probably won't believe any of this info.



My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

>>>Of course there are a lot of people on this site who think there's no way I could be a SWA pilot. They think I'm full of crap that there is only one 737 type rating for all models in the U.S So they probably won't believe any of this info.

I believe you, and there's an easy way to prove it for them.  Wink
(No other players, please...)

Please answer the question:

On a 737-700 (not the -300 or -500), what row of passengers seats lines up with the in-floor viewer for the main landing gear?

As a a bonus:

On your TP plots, which is worse, Code-3 conditions, or Code-4 conditions?


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4151 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
(No other players, please...)

......Damn.

 bitelip 



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSeven3Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
Please answer the question:

On a 737-700 (not the -300 or -500), what row of passengers seats lines up with the in-floor viewer for the main landing gear?

As a a bonus:

On your TP plots, which is worse, Code-3 conditions, or Code-4 conditions?

Good try. Both are very good trick questions.

In the -700 there are no landing gear viewers at all, either in the cabin or in the cockpit. There is a second set of reduntant gear lights on a separate circuit on the overhead panel.

And there is no code 3. We use codes 2, 4, and 6. Don't know why but there ya go.



My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4102 times:

Ladies and gentlemen, Seven3seven is indeed a Southwest pilot...  Wink

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4281 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

Just wondering, isn't Autothrottles required for Cat 2 or 3 landings, which are autoland IIRC? And is Southwest certified for such landings if thats not the case?

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

We're good for CAT I, II, and IIIa...and we do it without autothrottles...

User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Southwest is one of the richest airlines yet they have these rules like no auto throttles/breaks and classic cockpits because they save money and its good for the pilots sake. If they had auto breaks maybe they could have avoided that crash they had at Burbank Airport where the pilot forgot how to land a plane on a short runway.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

>>>If they had auto breaks maybe they could have avoided that crash they had at Burbank Airport where the pilot forgot how to land a plane on a short runway.

I don't think "autobreaks" would have helped, but "autobrakes" are another matter....  Wink


User currently offlineSeven3Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3883 times:

Hey AirWillie, does it make you feel better to make insensitive remarks like that?

Do you really think that 4500 pilots aren't striving every day to make this a completely safe operation and that we don't regret that one stupid idiot ruined our reputation?

Thanks so much for your constructive criticism. Its really needed and appreciated. By the way, please let us know more about how we can better run our airline. I'm sure you're very well qualified.

I gotta go figure out how to spend my profit sharing.



My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Hey 737, does it make you feel better to make insensitive remarks like that?

I didn't say WN pilots are not safe. WN flights in my opinion are fun because each time you never know what type of flying you will get. And if you want to know how to better better run Southwest then have assigned seating.


User currently offlinePowerofpi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

you want to see assigned seating on WN? are you being sarcastic?

[Edited 2005-05-22 11:57:59]

User currently offlineDC8FriendShip From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 17):
And if you want to know how to better better run Southwest then have assigned seating.

Yeah, that's what will do it... sarcastic 



Come fly the Friendly Skies of United
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6895 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Assigned seating in Southwest? Then Southwest won't be an LCC anymore !  Smile

Autobrakes at Burbank would have helped? RUBBISH! According to the report the pilot wasn't "in the slot" for a correct config. With hindsight, he should have aborted... Maximum manual braking brakes more than than autobrakes!

Try and force land in Burbank 08 from 3000ft 4 miles from the runway with a 182 knots touchdown and max autobrakes and see whether you'd get fired from Southwest 5 months after that landing!

OPNL and seven7seven, What's WN's standard landing flap? 30 or 40?

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

AirWillie6475 said "Southwest is one of the richest airlines yet they have these rules like no auto throttles/breaks.."

Maybe you just solved the mystery, maybe that is the key to their wealth...

But on a serious note, WN saves money in small genius ways, but with a few hundred airplanes and flights over years these small savings add up significantly.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

>>>OPNL and seven7seven, What's WN's standard landing flap? 30 or 40?

30...


User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Go figure.

Somehow a topic on autobrakes at Southwest, someone somehow managed to work assigned seating into it.....  banghead 



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

>>>Somehow a topic on autobrakes at Southwest, someone somehow managed to work assigned seating into it.....

Why sure, the cotrol box has settings for:

MIN
MED
MAX
RTO
ASSIGNED SEATING

 Wink


25 Post contains images 2H4 : I don't know how you guys missed it, OPNL. Just look at how well assigned seating is doing for the rest of the majors in the US... 2H4
26 Post contains images Cactus739 : You know,...... if they had IFE....
27 Flyabunch : I want to thank you both for your refreshing comments. My whole reason for being here is to be involved with people who know what they are talking ab
28 777STL : Want to know how to run an airline profitably? Just ask a 14 year old Airliners.net geek.....
29 Planespotting : not to brag, but i could have answered the turbulence plot question too... haha
30 Mandala499 : OPNLguy, Flap30? Did the guy at Burbank ever get to that flap setting? Granted 182kts could rip your flaps if at flap30... 182kts... Hey aint that rou
31 OPNLguy : >>>Flap30? Did the guy at Burbank ever get to that flap setting? Granted 182kts could rip your flaps if at flap30... 182kts... BUR is one of those pla
32 Pilotpip : Funny, that plane AA put in the approach lights at DEN had autoBRAKES and auto throttles. Not trying to pick on AA here, but technology isn't always
33 Post contains images Mandala499 : OPNLguy, Thanks, I read the report some time ago. I forgot that WN is flap30 (with Burbank at 40 and maybe some other places where it's required)... Y
34 Post contains images Starlionblue : Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This computer geek is freaking out now... Don't say things like th
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