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A350 To Be Delivered Between 2011 & 2013  
User currently offlineBeauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

Quote:
The first Airbus A350 — which is still in the design stage — is scheduled to be delivered between 2011 and 2013, said Zoe Guynn, America West’s director of corporate communications. America West hasn’t disclosed how many A350s it plans to purchase from Airbus, she said.

Airbus North America couldnÂ’t be reached for comment on the A350.

America West has ongoing business with both Airbus and Boeing, and its agreement to launch the A350 has nothing to do with helping Airbus compete with BoeingÂ’s 787, Guynn said.

"(Launching the A350) is not part of a large plan to go all A350s. ItÂ’s really just the progression of our growth and of keeping our fleet up to date."

In the meantime, Boeing is on track to deliver its first 787s in 2008, and has received 261 firm orders and commitments from 21 airlines around the world, said Todd Blecher, spokesman for Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

"The 787 is superior to the A350 across the board."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=41746

Since USAir is only the second customer for the A350, isn't it reasonable to conclude that the A350 will not be ready until 2011-2013 for all airlines who order it?

105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

Well that proves it's a little more than just a derivate A330....
The A350 will be basically a new aircraft -full stop !



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7570 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Well that proves it's a little more than just a derivate A330....
The A350 will be basically a new aircraft -full stop !

Now, yes - but when people said it was a derivative originally it was true - this redesign has got to be in response to the lackluster interest before.


User currently offlineBeauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Well that proves it's a little more than just a derivate A330....
The A350 will be basically a new aircraft -full stop !

But if it's 2013, and I think it will be given Airbus' record of meeting project deadlines, that will give Boeing a FIVE YEAR head start in this market segment.

And as long as they are using the same fuselage cross section as the A300, 330, and 340 it really isn't a new aircraft -full stop !


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2724 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7501 times:

Quoting Beauing (Reply 3):
as long as they [Airbus] are using the same fuselage cross section as the A300, A330, and A340 it [A350] really isn't a new aircraft -full stop !

Just to make sure we get this straight: as long as the fuselage diameter stays the same, it still is the same plane for you, no matter what else chances around it???

I am stunned to read the most ridiculous remark on the A350 circulating A.net still has its adepts: Going by this logic, the 737NG is merely a shrink of the 707, launched more than half a century ago then?

As this example has showed you hopefully, using a common fuselage cross section for totally different planes does not so much hint at them being derivate products, it much more enables the manufacturer to produce these completely different planes from the same production line/plant with greater in house flexibility, thus seriously reducing COSTS.

Ever wondered one of the reasons why Airbus is so much praised for their extreme flexible production process and their well-known lower production costs might be they have only 2 different cross sections (i.e. narrow body and wide body, although with the A380 they have now added one to that), whereas Boeing has no less then 5!!!! (6 even if you count the 757)


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7475 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 4):
I am stunned to read the most ridiculous remark on the A350 circulating A.net still has its adepts: Going by this logic, the 737NG is merely a shrink of the 707, launched more than half a century ago then?

Agreed - it is a ridiculous remark. The 707, 727, 737, and 757 all share the same cross section and they are all very different airplanes.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 4):
whereas Boeing has no less then 5!!!! (6 even if you count the 757)

make that 4 since all the narrow bodies are the same - see above!

1. all narrowbodies
2. 747
3. 767
4. 777

and (coming soon) 787 - so when the 787 comes it will be 5 for Boeing (though probably 4 really since the 767 will be obsolete then) vs. 3 for Airbus - not a huge big deal either way, IMO.


User currently offlineBeauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7464 times:

I guess we have to wait and see if the A350 is a whole new plane. According to Leahy its changed three or four times in the last 90 days. Not even Airbus knows what it will be.

I thought the 757 was based on the 707/727/737 cross section. So now Boeing will have 4 fuselage widths 737/747/777/787 once the 767 production ends.

Three for Airbus, four for Boeing...


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

Beauing--isn't it reasonable to conclude that the A350 will not be ready until 2011-2013 for all airlines who order it?

Not really reasonable, no. But no biggie, folks can think what they like  Smile

It does seem like Airbus is trying here though -- maybe in a month or two the A350 PR story will have added another turn here or there. It does look a bit like floundering but maybe they're just trying to buy a bit of time before they can freeze and then announce what the design specs are gonna be.


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2724 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7409 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 5):
737 and 757 all share the same cross section

Didn't know that... I stand corrected, 4 iso 5 different cross sections then for B.  
Although, the cross section of the 737 and 757 might be identical, but not so their nose and the tail sections, so it more is like a 4.5 too me, but the 757 is finished anyhow, so ...

Quoting KC135R (Reply 5):
when the 787 comes it will be 5 for Boeing (though probably 4 really since the 767 will be obsolete then) vs. 3 for Airbus - not a huge big deal either way, IMO.

Indeed the advantage A. had over B. with this is getting less prominent because of the premature scrapping of 2 types from the B. range (although the 767 might still be built as a tanker and should not be eliminated too soon) and because of the introduction of the A380. The fact A. would have to go from 2 to 3 different cross sections and thus also built a entirely new plant with dedicated production lines, get modified cranes and tools to handle the new pieces and find suitable transportation means for them was bothering them a lot, so much even they've seriously considered (in the early stages of the concept definition phase) making the A380 out of 2 standard wide body segments jointed together so they could stick to the slim system.

[Edited 2005-05-22 00:14:27]

User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7358 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 8):
Although, the cross section of the 737 and 757 might be identical, but not so their nose and the tail sections, so it more is like a 4.5 too me, but the 757 is finished anyhow, so ...

The 757 did originally have the common nose in the early design phase, but lost it when they wanted to make it common to the 767 cockpit, AFAIK. It's a typical Boeing narrowbody fuselage with a nose made to accommodate the 767 cockpit, basically anyway.


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Quoting Beauing (Reply 3):
But if it's 2013, and I think it will be given Airbus' record of meeting project deadlines, that will give Boeing a FIVE YEAR head start in this market segment.

The 777 was also put into service a few years later than the MD-11 and Boeing sold more of it.......


User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

That is all assuming the A350 gets its needed launch aid and is actually launched. I am starting to have my doubts with the trade organization threats.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

I thought the B-777 and B-747 have the same cross section. I could be wrong.

So how many A-350s is Airbus going to force feed to HP bacause they helped bail out US? A-350s (what ever the final design will be) doesn't seem like a good replacement for the A-320s and B-733s.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7298 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 9):
The 757 did originally have the common nose in the early design phase, but lost it when they wanted to make it common to the 767 cockpit, AFAIK. It's a typical Boeing narrowbody fuselage with a nose made to accommodate the 767 cockpit, basically anyway.

Wouldn't the 737NG have had the 757 nose except for WN objecting?



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

It will be interesting to see who things go with the A350. Looks like in 20 years we'll have a plane for every different number of passengers with the A and the B version of it. But if the market exists then go ahead...


KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I thought the B-777 and B-747 have the same cross section. I could be wrong.

20 ft for 747 - 19'3" for 777

Plus remember the 777 was the first perfectly round fuselage, so it's different.

Also, cross section is not just width - it's the whole design, taking the same tube off one airplane and slapping it on another, perhaps shorter or longer, but circumference wise (for lack of a better word) the same. The narrow bodies are identical, except for the nose on the 757, to save money - no testing of an already approved fuselage required, smart.

[Edited 2005-05-22 00:44:45]

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I thought the B-777 and B-747 have the same cross section. I could be wrong.

They don't have the same width and they definitely don't have the same cross section, given that the 747 is a partial double decker design.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7274 times:

Quoting Adria (Reply 10):
The 777 was also put into service a few years later than the MD-11 and Boeing sold more of it.......

The 777 was also a better airplane than the MD-11. That remains to be seen with the A350...

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Well that proves it's a little more than just a derivate A330.... The A350 will be basically a new aircraft -full stop !

A "new airplane" that can hope only for parity with the 787. The A350 will reduce the blow delivered by Boeing, but the 787 remains a more potent, coherent, and lethal competitor.

The second and fourth best selling (widebody) aircraft in history are the 767-300ER and A300, to which Airbus has no direct replacement. Boeing has both: the 787-8 and 787-3. Just the market for those aircraft gives Boeing a commanding advantage.


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 17):
A "new airplane" that can hope only for parity with the 787. The A350 will reduce the blow delivered by Boeing, but the 787 remains a more potent, coherent, and lethal competitor.

Since when do you have the final design specs? Wait and see.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7271 times:

''make that 4 since all the narrow bodies are the same - see above!

1. all narrowbodies
2. 747
3. 767
4. 777''

...he counts the 717 as a different narrow body too


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
...he counts the 717 as a different narrow body too

Well its production life is pretty much over so it's irrelevant....and it wasn't originally designed by Boeing, it was acquired as the MD-95 from the McDD merger.

I should have said all Boeing designed narrow bodies.  Smile


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2724 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7253 times:

Quoting Beauing (Reply 3):
if it's 2013, that will give Boeing a FIVE YEAR head start in this market segment.

Airbus gave Boeing a 10+ year lead with their 767...
and brought us the A330 which completely swept away the 767

Airbus gave Boeing A 20+ year lead with their 737...
and brought us the A320 which is now taking more than half of the sales in this segment

Note that these are the 2 most successful Airbus products!

On the other hand, what exactly was/were the opponents of the A310 when it was launched? And how come the initial A340s were so easily outclassed by the 777? I'd say that throughout it's history it seems Airbus is at it best if they know exactly what they are aiming at, so I suppose 3 to 5 years is just about the perfect time to take a good look, mark your target, aim, shoot and kill.


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
and brought us the A330 which completely swept away the 767

On this statement I agree and disagree with you, let me tell you why.

The 767 has been around for just over 20 years now and has sold 946.

The A330 has been around for just over 10 years and has sold 524. If the A330 were to continue, it could feasibly surpass the 767 in total sales, but it's basically being replaced now by the A350.

Has the A330 been successful? Yes. But to say it swept away the 767 is kind of an odd statement, consider: A new mid sized widebody (A330) came into the market and stopped the flow of the elder 767 halfway through its life. So Boeing counters, 20+ years later with the 787 forcing Airbus to counter, only 10 years after A330 introduction, with the A350 - despite initial claims the A330 would be enough to compete. IMO, Boeing has the upperhand here, where they did go wrong was not countering the A330 sooner - but maybe not since 787 sales are strong now and the market entry seemed to take place at the right time.

[Edited 2005-05-22 01:09:15]

User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7199 times:

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
Airbus gave Boeing A 20+ year lead with their 737...
and brought us the A320 which is now taking more than half of the sales in this segment

Since the 737NG is only 8 years old, that statement is only half true. Though no doubt the NG was a result of the A32S. Considering the 737NG is selling quite nicely as well (nearly 2500 in 8 years), I would say there is plenty of room for both in this market.

Which, BTW, makes the point any aviation enthusiast should really see here: competition is good! If one company wipes out the other =  yawn !


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2724 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 22):
A new mid sized widebody (A330) came into the market and stopped the flow of the elder 767 halfway through its life. So Boeing counters, 20+ years later with the 787 forcing Airbus to counter, only 10 years later, with the A350

Indeed but that's a purely FINANCIAL aspect of the discussion: "Has the A330 already generated enough cash for Airbus to be replaced without pain?", not a TECHNICAL aspect of it....
Besides: It isn't the first plane Airbus replaces after 10 years under stiff competition, is it? In an ever steadily evolving technological world, aircraft designs maybe are no longer meant to be kept going for 20+ years without mayor modifications/investments like we were used to in the past?

Besides, like I've said, the A350 will come only 5 years after the 787, with the advantage for A. of knowing what they are shooting at.... Knowing Boeing's reluctance to react quickly to the weaknesses in their product line, this might turn out to be a huge problem for them. The 787 might very well have been timed perfectly, but looks like B will not benefit from A making the same mistakes they've made by not immediately countering the A330 sooner as you've said. Looks like 10 years is just about enough to pay off a program like the A330 (or A350/B787), but is 5 still???? If so, he who has the deepest pockets can sit it out and stay in the running till he's the last one left: we all know who undoubtedly has the deepest pockets in the industry...

[Edited 2005-05-22 01:33:10]

25 KC135R : But your question assumes that in 5 years the A350 will shut down the 787 like the A330 did to the 767. That is a poor assumption, the 767 was amongs
26 Sabenapilot : I think that is a fair thing to conclude and it is also my feeling. Early next decade, we will probably find proof both planes are closely matched, b
27 Jet-lagged : Yes, 5 years if probably not enough time for most aircraft. But, the 787 is selling so well, that they have a shot at that. Figure that they should h
28 Beauing : Gremany, France, the UK, and Spain?
29 Post contains images KC135R : I didn't say that.... Weird how that sometimes happens.
30 Intothinair : I'm guessing the first A350-800 will be delivered by 2011, and the first A350-900 will be delivered by 2013, please correct me if i'm wrong! Cheers,
31 Post contains images Galapagapop : But the Md-11 was just another warmed over Dc-10 just called the MD-11, mmm sounds familiar.
32 Post contains images DfwRevolution : How best to respond to this jewel.... First, what "sweeping away" the A332 did was done long after Boeing laughed their way to the bank. Boeing deliv
33 Beauing : I don't see that happening if they build the A350 with an aluminum fuselage. That's sooo 20th century. Right now the new improved A350 is just a lot
34 Atmx2000 : I disagree. I expect higher sales volumes at the lower capacity end of the market, for which Airbus has no answer to the 788 and 783. Boeing will sel
35 Jet-lagged : Oops, yes I clicked the wrong "QUOTE SELECTED TEXT" button. Should have been for the honorable Sabenepilot.
36 Dhefty : KC135R, I must disagree with your presumption here. There is very little historical evidence that in a duopoly there will necessarily be a 50/50 spli
37 Adria : The 200-400 seat market is big so a 787 with 200+ orders is not even close by filling it. So this means if airbus delivers a almost identical aircraf
38 KLM685 : Why the change from DC-10 to MD-11? Why no DC-11?
39 Dhefty : The critical need now for Airbus is to get as many A330 orders as they can between now and first A350 deliveries, to keep a respectable cash flow. I w
40 Atmx2000 : Whoa, we see markets in a higher resolution than that. We are talking about a 200-300 market, the mid size market. 300-450 is the large market, and a
41 Zvezda : Because McDonnell and Douglas merged after the DC-10 and before the MD-11.
42 Sabenapilot : You are correct in assuming the lower end of 787 will be the best selling part of the 787 family and indeed the A350 does not go after the smallest v
43 Post contains images Solnabo : Just a little input here about MD-11: After Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas they where quick to kill off the production line for MD-11, very sad IMO,
44 RedDragon : Could it not have been a better decision to go after the lower end of the 787 market rather than the top? It seems as if Airbus has so consistently t
45 Atmx2000 : No, the 787 has always been targeted as long haul design and optimized for that role. The short range 783 is, of course, a compromise, but the market
46 SWISSER : Guys, I think we should stick back to topic and possibly assume that Airbus is planning a new design with the A350 when they plan to deliver between 2
47 Sabenapilot : Obviously the answer to that you won't find on this site since nobody knows how factors like time, cost, faisability, sales price and risk were judge
48 Ken777 : I'm still waiting to see how the 350 ends up - probably at the Paris Air Show. I believe that there has been a lot of refining on the 350 thinking and
49 Post contains images Aerokiwi : So what you're saying Sabenapilot is that Airbus created an A330/A340 replacement before an A310/300 replacement, thus leaving the 200-250 seat market
50 LawnDart : I wonder how much revenue Boeing generated with the 767-400. Probably the maximum possible for that airframe! I agree that it appears the A350 is a r
51 Sjoerd : The size difference between the B787 and the A350 isn't as big as you make it seem. The B788 positions itself between the A300 and A332 and the B789
52 Adria : I was referring to a previous statement but you still just confirmed my post yet again you don't know what the final design characteristics will be s
53 Beauing : Northwest, Korean, Air Canada and Air India can tell you they prefer the 787...
54 Trex8 : Wanna bet part of the "delay" in the A350 is because they will be also coming up with a smaller shorter range variant to fill the A306 replacement mar
55 Sabenapilot : If the A350 is indeed going to be available not before 2011-2013, then has the idea ever crossed your mind that maybe the ONLY reson for them orderin
56 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Swing and miss: I was referring to the A359 v. 772ER Boeing has sold 415 772ER since 1990. Not a single frame is older than 8 years old, and 63 have
57 Sabenapilot : Just curious to find out what 737NG overlaps to the decimal point with the A321-200 then????
58 DfwRevolution : First, the 737-900X. Available for sale since 2002, capable of EOS within 12-18 months upon order, and arguably, a superior competitor to the A321. I
59 Beauing : NO! It would not be the ONLY reason. I would think current A330 operators could have waited an additional two years for the A350. Remember it was fir
60 Burnsie28 : My question is WTF is US Airways going to do with the A350? Asia? Only to get their @ss kicked.... Again (HP)
61 Glom : That's the A equivalent of the rabid B argument that Airbus only sells aircraft because they use subsidies to offer below cost prices just to win the
62 Sjoerd : How about they liked the price better and the fact that Boeing buys back their old aircraft (A330 and A340) ? The last press release from Airbus stat
63 Glom : Negated by the fact that Airbus would have no doubt tried some similar sweetening on their offer. It's amazing how when a person's team loses a deal,
64 Mark_D. : AC --like so many others-- still hasn't placed a lot of firm orders for 787 yet. (and the word "firm" is less useful in the context than usual..who kn
65 KC135R : What's that Mark? A subtle attempt at "what if the 787 fails?" You want to start throwing out irrelevant "what ifs"?? Well then here's one for you, w
66 Post contains images KC135R : Actually, looking more closely at the differences in range/capacity I think I disagree with my own statement. What I should have tried to convey is t
67 Mark_D. : KC135R--A subtle attempt at "what if the 787 fails? The manic zealotry from some folks is so intense around here at times KC135R that it even maybe de
68 Aerokiwi : Sjoerd: Can you accept that the A358 is simply NOT a 767 replacement? A300 at a stretch, but certainly not a 767 bird. The 783/788, however, is far mo
69 KC135R : Having read many of your posts I can honestly say being called a zealot by you is a compliment. You are so far in the Airbus corner, blind to anythin
70 KLM685 : KC135R Thanks for your reply. I'll be looking for more information about that. I knew about the merger but didn't came into my mind. Thanks, again Alo
71 AA777 : The differences between an A330 & A350 are not (IMHO) as big as between a 707, 727, 737 & 757, which also share the same cross section. The latter fo
72 AirNZ : Quoting Beauing in thread starter: "The 787 is superior to the A350 across the board." Quoting DfwRevolution (reply 17) A "new airplane" that can hope
73 Post contains images Adria : The design is/was changed so the final design is still to be introduced(except the engine suppliers). this A350 will be different than that one we al
74 Iwok : I truly hope that you are right. Hopefully the 350 will be an all new aircraft. One other possible reason for the late EIS may be that earlier delive
75 Dhefty : A year from now we will all be talking about the B787 first flight only months away. Airbus will have a two-year wait for the A350, unless they decid
76 KC135R : Not this again....what point does this argument make? Boeing said the 7E7, what it was called at the time, was going to have a distinctive look but t
77 Adria : The shark tail fin and the "dreamliner" slogan was only for PR. The traditional and thus more efficient look was set from the beginning so there was
78 Beauing : I'm aware that there are many other airlines who have ordered the 787. I chose NW, KAL, AC ,and AI because they are recent orders that really knocked
79 Post contains images Adria : You simply don't get it do you? Airlines are changing from A330 to the 787 as they were from the 767 to the A330 so this has nothing to do with the t
80 Dhefty : So is the chimeric A350 just a bunch of trial balloons, like the various B747's that were offered without much success prior to the A380? What if NW,
81 Beauing : I guess you don't get it. Maybe this will help: Get it?
82 Mark_D. : Dhefty-- So is the chimeric A350 just a bunch of trial balloons, like the various B747's that were offered without much success prior to the A380? Wha
83 DarthRandall : At least until we figure out just what the hell it's going to be. For all we know it could have a shark tail. I should hope that they aren't still th
84 PM : Monday 23rd May Today's ATW Online reports that the A350-800 "could" fly in mid-2010 and the -900 in late 2010. Breakeaven is 400-500 which Airbus cla
85 Post contains images Adria : The carriers know a lot more about the A350 than A.net. The difference between the various B747 versions offered and the A350 is that eventually the
86 Post contains images Sabenapilot : vs. Which is A.'s competitor to the 787? The A330 or the A350? Make up your mind please, since obviously it can't be both... Or do you still think th
87 Trex8 : I thought it was beacuse the LR wasn't even offered at the time
88 Beauing : Oh really! Somebody better tell Airbus this. No wonder they keep losing competitions to the 787.
89 N60659 : That may be part of the problem. In a recent article on Aviation Week and Space Technology, A350 program manager Olivier Andries characterized the A3
90 Beauing : The A320 and 737NG have both sold well. The A350 has not. Airbus is so desperate to move this dog that they will "loan" USAir the money to buy them.
91 Eilennaei : Believe or not, there was a CEO who thought the 767 and the MD-11 could be compared side-by-side, and the latter won that evaluation. The MD-11 deser
92 Dhefty : As of April, 2005, there were 62 B767-200's and 2 B767-300's in storage, from a total of 926 deliveries, or 6%. There were 33 MD-11's in storage from
93 DfwRevolution : In all fairness... most of the 767s going to the desert are a 5-10 years older, have thousands more hours, and are nearly completly depriciated. The
94 Adria : OK I will write "slowly" so you can understand what I'm talking about. You said the NW 787 order shows how bad the A350 is because NW was a potential
95 DfwRevolution : But do you think that US/HP is going to go on to purchase an additional 60 the way SQ did? Not to mention, Boeing dropped a major PR blow on Airbus w
96 Beauing : Your arrogance is unbelievable. BA acquired the A320 in a merger, so your point is irrelevant. Did they have to loan Singapore the money to buy them?
97 Sjoerd : Airbus indeed created an A350 customer with HP/US, but that comes second to trying to save US to not loose the cash flow from their current fleet, al
98 DfwRevolution : They also face retribution on both fronts: the fact that a single row stretch of the 789 would mitigate the economic advantage of the A359, and a 2 r
99 Beauing : Quoting Sabenapilot: Somebody better tell the press too: [Edited 2005-05-24 04:57:08]
100 Post contains images Adria : I meant the A320family order(BA ordered the A320 family as a Boeing replacement)(!) and not those 10 A320s they got with the merger. So your comment
101 TP313 : Beauing, your ignorance shows. Ever wondered why there are a few BA A320s with CFM engines and all the other BA 32S have V2500 engines? Think about i
102 Beauing : Gee, the Airbusers have been quite grumpy since the A350 lost four orders in a row![Edited 2005-05-24 16:24:55]
103 Atmx2000 : Huh? Are you talking cargo capacity after bags for the A388?
104 TP313 : Gee, Boeing cheerleaders are proud of being uninformed about the topics they discuss...
105 Post contains images Adria : hehe no one is grumpy I am just wondering how someone cannot understand something that has been told 3 times in a row .
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