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NRT To Adopt A New Form Of Landing Fees  
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20050521-00000104-yom-soci

This is the article as is. Since the article is in Japanese and probably nobody can understand, I will try my best at traslating it.

NAA (Narita Airport Authority) will be the first to adopt a new form of landing fees, that are to be called, "Noise level landing fees."

They will propose this to the IATA as early as mid June

The airport currently charges 2400 yen ($21 American) per ton on the landing aircrafts. This means that jets such as the Boeing 747-400 will pay about $94,800; which makes Narita, the most expensive airport in the world. Thus the IATA were demanding a decrease in prices. New jets such as the Boeing 777 will benefit from this (20% cheaper than current rates) because they cause less noise.

On the other hand, this means that the airport will be making $120 million less annually than its current $600 million so the NAA is planning on charging individuals to earn the $120 million that it loses as a result of its new landing fees.

On the other hand, some views state that lowering the landing fees immediately is hard because of the numbers of employees who get their salary from this and the rise of oil prices.



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It seems that again; the pax have to pay more (as always) to maintain that money to run the airport (gated gates, tons of security guards, construction of T1) but how will this affect airlines?

For instance, do you think that airlines like JAL will move towards more 777's or 747-400's and station their classic 747's elsewhere? For instance, there are some 747-400 that are based at KIX but will they swap it with a classic based in Narita to take advantage of these landing fee changes?

Also, do you think this kind of "noise level-landing fees" will be adopted in other airports too?


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5611 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3364 times:
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Quote..The airport currently charges 2400 yen ($21 American) per ton on the landing aircrafts. This means that jets such as the Boeing 747-400 will pay about $94,800...

There is something wrong with the arithmetic here.. at 2400yen/ton, a 300 ton 747 would be paying roughly 720,00Yen OR about $6600

Regards

Chris



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Could this open the door for JL or NH to take on some 777F? Or maybe more 744F!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Well, this will be good for AA, CO and DL who fly 777s to NRT!

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 1):
There is something wrong with the arithmetic here.. at 2400yen/ton, a 300 ton 747 would be paying roughly 720,00Yen OR about $6600

Yes but I wrote what the article says

Quoting AS739X (Reply 2):
Or maybe more 744F!

Yes....... well this is just my opinion but I hope JL renews its fleets. For Japanese people who want many things new (average life for car is 3/4 years, etc) 25 year old classic jumbos are not noisy, but just old.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

NAA wants to stick it to those who operate 747 classics, namely JL, NW & KZ.
If NAA is predicting reduced income why not increase the number of slots. The airport is still nowhere near capacity in terms of movements.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5611 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3047 times:
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Quote... Yes but I wrote what the article says .

Apologies, I was just pointing out an error in the arithmetic not YOUR arithmetic. There are many examples of reporters getting facts like that wrong. Sometimes deliberately to make their point.

Regards


Chris



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 6):
Apologies, I was just pointing out an error in the arithmetic not YOUR arithmetic

Thanx its ok. I should have double thought that.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
If NAA is predicting reduced income why not increase the number of slots

I think Emirates is hungry for that. I heard that they want to enter the NRT market but entered KIX because it could not secure any at NRT for the meantime.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
namely JL, NW & KZ

Wow...... JL will be affected by this even more. I read about how the company may suspend SPN flights because they can not turn a profit and how fuel prices are affecting the company (well with all those 747 that they operate)



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 4):
For Japanese people who want many things new (average life for car is 3/4 years, etc) 25 year old classic jumbos are not noisy, but just old.

Aren't you leaving out the rapidly increasing car inspections after the 4th year? It seems like that might have something to do with it.

A better comparison might be the famous 'bullet' trains. I seem to recall that some of those were 20 years old or so before retirement.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):
A better comparison might be the famous 'bullet' trains. I seem to recall that some of those were 20 years old or so before retirement.

You are very right

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):
Aren't you leaving out the rapidly increasing car inspections after the 4th year? It seems like that might have something to do with it.

I'll keep that in mind when I am searching for a car to buy the next time

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
The airport is still nowhere near capacity in terms of movements.

I think they have to do a bit of planning. I mean 1 hr holds on the ground can be pretty common in busy airports of the world but they should lessen that.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Most pax don't know if they are travelling in a 30-year old plane or one year old plane.

If a plane pulls up to the gate and is really dirty, bare metal spots, shoddying/patched up paint; pax will wonder is this thing good to fly?

NRT's two runways aren't even independently operated despite more than adequate parallel runway separation. Most landings are staggered and take-offs definitely staggered regardless of aircraft destination on each runway.

NAA is now semi-private. You would think if they wanted to increase revenue, they would add more flights. Nope. Goes to show the dolts running NAA and DOT of Japan.
This is where KIX and NGO have NRT beat because they are willing to add flights and expand the number of slots at peak time if neceddary. Of course, NGO, KIX market is nowhere near that of NRT.


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 10):
NRT's two runways aren't even independently operated despite more than adequate parallel runway separation. Most landings are staggered and take-offs definitely staggered regardless of aircraft destination on each runway

Carpethead, are these two rwys then operated by a single ATC? I find that very odd because there is tons of spacing. Infact, I usually fly JAL to NRT and landing on 34L and the taxi all the way to B-75 gate is annoying. It takes around 30-40 minutes.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 1):
Quote..The airport currently charges 2400 yen ($21 American) per ton on the landing aircrafts. This means that jets such as the Boeing 747-400 will pay about $94,800...

There is something wrong with the arithmetic here.. at 2400yen/ton, a 300 ton 747 would be paying roughly 720,00Yen OR about $6600

I believe thats in Yen.


User currently offline9844 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

"Wow...... JL will be affected by this even more. I read about how the company may suspend SPN flights because they can not turn a profit and how fuel prices are affecting the company (well with all those 747 that they operate)"



I was reading some where that NW and CAL may increase their flts to and from Guam and Saipan to NRT.I guess JAL's weakness is the fleet.Nothing smaller then a 767..


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Interesting. It sounds like they're adjusting to accomodate the A380 while sticking it to the operators of 747 classics. Under these rules I suspect the A380 would cost just as much to operate as a 747, but with many more passengers paying the airport fee, thus allowing NAA to recoup those $120 million much faster.

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

Quoting 9844 (Reply 13):
"Wow...... JL will be affected by this even more

Yes...... that's why I was wondering if they are going to completely move out the classics from NRT and station them at KIX and in turn, take the 744's stationed there and then fly them from NRT. Its actually pathetic in some ways. With JL knowing Japan as a resource poor country, couldn't they imagine if the fuel cost was going to be so high; it would damage them? Now you can see 777-200ER, 777-300ER at NRT but it used to be almost entirely JL 747's that you could see.

Well.... if pax are going to pay for the loss from the airline; it won't really be a reduction in costs. It would reduce the airline cost but increase the pax costs.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

NRT just released the details on the new pricing structure.

Cat A - 1,650 yen/ton
Cat B - 1,750 yen/ton
Cat C - 1,850 yen/ton
Cat D - 1,950 yen/ton
Cat E - 2,050 yen/ton
Cat F - 2,150 yen/ton

108 yen = $1USD

Cat A are A340 and some 777s
Cat B are most 767s and remaining 777s
Cat C/D/F are 744s with most falling under Cat D
Cat F are 747 classics with some falling under Cat E.

Here is the link (most is Japanese)
http://www.naa.jp/jp/press/index.html

These are the highest landing fees levied on carriers worldwide. Obviously NAA wants to stick it particularly to 747 classic operators such as NW & JL. Even the 744 isn't exactly low noise.

More reason for carriers such as NH to switch from 744 to 773ER.
Perhaps this will hasten replacement of the 747 classic fleet at JL.


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

What About CO's 767-400's and 737-800's ????

User currently offlineAirways From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

Jus as a comparision. Zurich has a noise charge since ages. If you like to get the detailed numbers, you can download a pdf file with all charges from this page:

http://www.unique.ch/ZRH/?ID_site=2&...es&ID_level1=14&ID_level2=84&a2=84

Michael
http://www.airsider.net


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