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Air India Going Public Soon?  
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1118353.cms

Would this just be partial privatization?


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting Atmx2000 (Thread starter):
Would this just be partial privatization?

yes! else the communist will pull down the govt that very day.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineTheBigOne From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Air India will be privatised around the same time that pigs evolve to the point of flying. Can you imagine the hundreds of people from politicians to senior management who will be unable to collect bribes from suppliers, and will actually have to be accountable. There are simply too many hands in AIs pie for them to be allowed to become private.


Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting TheBigOne (Reply 2):
Air India will be privatised around the same time that pigs evolve to the point of flying. Can you imagine the hundreds of people from politicians to senior management who will be unable to collect bribes from suppliers, and will actually have to be accountable. There are simply too many hands in AIs pie for them to be allowed to become private.

Of course if Air India does well, and its stock does well as a result, the government may well wish to cash out and use the money for some other purpose. Even communists (at least the sane ones) will see the $ signs (or rather Rs. signs) and dream of how they can spend it on their favorite constituencies.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Quoting TheBigOne (Reply 2):
Air India will be privatized around the same time that pigs evolve to the point of flying

Didn't part of Maruti Automobile stake held by Govt. of India get offloaded? I think the communists have no choice but to go along for partial privitization. They can justify to their constituency by arguing that this will preserve the current jobs at Air India.


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

a brief history of AI`s privatization.."Once upon a time in late-80s and early 90`s lived a good airlines called Air India. The wicked old politicians thought about privatizing AI. It so occurred to them, that when they are about to privatize their princess then why buy planes for it at all. So its value went down, and when the turn came for it sale none came forward. So the dear politicians decided upon buying her some planes to increase its value, so that it sells for more. But I doubt that`ll happen, and our politicians will live happily ever after."

hope it enough to put you to sleep...AI`s bed time story.
rgds
VT-ASJ

[Edited 2005-05-23 19:33:35]


ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
Of course if Air India does well, and its stock does well as a result

Ha! Ha! Air India doing well! That is funny! Air India is the only loss-making airline in India today and that is not surprising!! This despite the direct and indirect subsidies it receives from the taxpayer. Even the other state-owned carrier, which faces similar problems like lack of fleet etc, made a small profit last year. This despite the fact that unlike AI, IC is forced to deploy over 40% of its capacity on Tier-3 routes which are totally unprofitable. And IC does not receive beneifts like Haj, which in reality is a sibsidy for Air India. AI also gets a lberal subsidy in the form of bilaterals which in reality should go tot hte Civil Av Ministry. Again a benefit not avail to IC.

Both IC and AI are state-owned. However one is profitable despite the odds beig stacked against it, while Air India remains unprofitable despite all the mollycoddling. The difference is the lack of professionalism within the airlines employees starting from the very top. The RC-Parsi-Madrassi culture stays to this day and that is evident from the way AI is run.

In these circumstances who would want to buy stock in this carrier? Air India is a lost cause, a drain on the exchequer, and a curse on the traveller: and no amount of 777's is goin to change that!

Despite the high price I would rather put my money on 9W and the forthcoming IC issue.


User currently offlineA340roy From Germany, joined May 2004, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Well, i agree to most of you who would NOT want to invest in airlines like AI & IC. Not only would it be a sure loss of time and money, as most of you are well informed about the way these airlines are run. On the other hand, i recommend a major stake of the state owned airlines to be sold. I know this was tried before, during the dis-investment "phase", but seriously, its going to get AI and IC nothing with such IPO's, as these are not the most loved airlines in India/world.

In my opinion, the only way these airlines can "be saved" from a slow death, is to sell most of its stake to a professional company. The govt. just makes excuses for not doing so. Like most of you said, everyone is allowed to have a piece of cake in anything and everything conerning AI/IC deals. Even toilet papers ordered by AI/IC have lots of money to be made, right from the political head to the loader who actually fits the toilet rolls in the toilets!!! (a bit exaggerated, but u get wot i mean)

Another side of the whole non-performanec of these airlines, i would like to ask all of you, why are these airlines still running? I will not agree that the politicians want to fly them and that they are keeping the flow on, as AI & IC do carry actual revenue passengeers (poor them), and they do have over-bookings, places like FRA and LON do make profits when one compares it with operating profits, when one wants to do bookings for june/july 05, there are no seats available, altho it is a lean season....so, coming to my point, with the politicians ruling AI & IC, with the corrupt people making corrupt deals, with the schedule caste reservations in AI & IC (not a bad thing to give minorities opportunities, but try telling them to work, you know u are in for trouble), with the "gothic" mentallity of business procedures, with ALL negative things which existed in these airlines for so many years, AREN'T THEY DOING BLOODY GOOD!!!!!!

try putting these negative situations in any premium airline, then lets see how they run!

well, will wait to read from you all!
Cheerz,
ROY!



AR-FRA
User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

There is no alternative to divestment. I firmly believe that the Govt has no business running airlines (or hotels for that matter). However it is important that the Govt gets the best value for the assets it holds. Air India is leaking money and AI shares wont fetch a penny in the market tomorrow. IC on the other hand, backed by a India-wide reach, 47% market share and a much more professional management can fetch a lot more. Which is why the govt must consider shutting down Air India and transferring its assets and rotes to IC before disinvestment. Heres why:

IC, despite being state-owned is much, much better managed than Air India. Competetion from pvt carriers has totally transformed IC for the better, and IC is today one of the most aggressive airlines in the country. The IC brand was infact recently voted among the top-ten most popular brands in the country- up there with Amul and Nirma!! The problems with Air India is not state-ownership in itself, though that is certainly a contributory factor. The problems lie in the deep-rooted issues with regard to employee attitudes and the overall work culture within the airline.

The current mgmt at the airline is hell bent on running the airline into the ground in a manner not unlike a certain Lorenzo. Many within the management are shamelessly scouting for plum posts in rival carriers. Wait and watch: Within the next month, Mr.Mendis will be announcing news of a number of key, very key mgmt personnel migrating to a certain domestic carrier now going international. Morale within the airline at other levels is no better. We have all heard of how employees and their relatives misuse non-rev privileges. I wont go into too much detail into this as a lot has been said on this already but it remains a fact that employees and the management continue to rip off the airline.

Which is why I have been arguing against the Govt propping up Air india any more. Why should the taxpayers money continue to be used to prop up this national shame? It is better to shut down the airline, transfer its assets and routes to the other state-owned carrier Indian Airlines. This would create an airline with a fleet ranging from Airbus A319's to B747-400's and help improve the value of IC as well when it goes on the disinvestment table. Most importantly it will free Indian civil aviation from the millstone that is Air India.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

From Times of India article:

"A-I has decided to buy 50 Boeing aircraft — including eight Boeing 777-200 LR (Long Range), 15 Boeing 777-300 ER (Extended Range) and 27 Boeing 787. The aircraft is expected to be inducted into the A-I fleet beginning next year, subject to necessary government approvals."

Wow, Boeing must be pulling all the stops out! Sounds like the 787 will be joining the AI fleet beginning next year!


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Quoting Art (Reply 9):
Sounds like the 787 will be joining the AI fleet beginning next year!

It is the B772/3s that will be joining the fleet next year.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineSnehnath From India, joined Apr 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

I have asked this question a couple of times in another thread, but never received an answer.

If good sense prevails, and Air India is to be privatized, will Air India be more attractive to a potential buyer with the $5bn order or without? If Air India was theoretically privatized tomorrow, who would bear the cost of paying for the order?


User currently offlineGamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Many within the management are shamelessly scouting for plum posts in rival carriers

Ummmm..if AI managers are so inefficient why would Jet Airways (or any other pvt carrier) hire these folks? Just for the "connections" or am I missing something here.


User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 27):
772 is a Bullet and A343 is a Kawasaki 4S to make things clearer

He he he! nice try TRVYYZ, but if the 772 is a bullet then 9W made the right choice after all. The Bullet, nice bike though it is, i not known for either reliability or economy! You dont buy a bullet for either of those factors! And you are hearing this from a bullet owner!  Silly

But i suspect an airline might be interested in both of these!

And BTW, I wasnt comparing the aircraft but the airlines.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 27):
The B772's are the best thing that happened to AI.

Matter of opinion! 9W with the so-called "slow", "inefficient" Airbus can still kick Air India's ass anytime! And Air India, T7's or A310's, will always remain our national shame!


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

When will AI B787s be available after its launch.
Interestingly speaking with some Buddies from Kingfisher.The Inside story is Kingfisher will consider the A350 in future.Looks like Airbus has one trusty Operator  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
The Inside story is Kingfisher will consider the A350 in future.

ITs not just KF mel!

There are 2 other surprises/shocks to be expected from India at the show in Paris!


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1934 times:

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 15):
There are 2 other surprises/shocks to be expected from India at the show in Paris!

So are you going to keep us in suspense?



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 15):
There are 2 other surprises/shocks to be expected from India at the show in Paris!

all I can think of is an order by 9W! S2 does not have monies to run proper operations. KF and DN are not flying international soon. Maybe IC finalizes its long delayed plan to buy Airbuses.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1892 times:

IC A319/320/321s Long over due.Get them fast.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3259 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Aseem (Reply 17):
all I can think of is an order by 9W! S2 does not have monies to run proper operations. KF and DN are not flying international soon

Ordering the aircraft now, means ensuring delivery by the time DN/KF start flying international (if we're talking about 350/787 type aircraft). Hence I'm hoping there will be orders for long range aircraft from these airlines at the show  bigthumbsup . There's no point waiting until you're allowed to fly international, and then scramble to get the needed aircraft.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1875 times:
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Quoting Nimish (Reply 19):
There's no point waiting until you're allowed to fly international, and then scramble to get the needed aircraft.

Sure if you survive that long.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3259 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 20):
Sure if you survive that long.

Their business plan has to assume they survive, and hence their business plans needs to cater to that outcome. If they go bankrupt, then their orders go down the drain as well, but that's no big deal when you're bankrupt anyway!



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 21):
Their business plan has to assume they survive, and hence their business plans needs to cater to that outcome. If they go bankrupt, then their orders go down the drain as well, but that's no big deal when you're bankrupt anyway!

Well, they have to put money down at some point for an order, which could effect their financial viability in the short run, but increasing the interest burden and losses or decreasing their earnings.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 6):
Both IC and AI are state-owned.

Privitisation would help.

BTW
Kingfisher seems to be Loading their Aircraft very Well.  Smile

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1785 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
Kingfisher seems to be Loading their Aircraft very Well.

Is it close to 90%?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 25, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 24):
Is it close to 90%?

The Morning flight Yesterday seemed more than 90%  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
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