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CO To Increase Number Of Flights To Oslo, Norway  
User currently offlineHeisan67 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6144 times:

Continental announced today that are very satisfied with their EWR - OSL service and will increase the number of flights during winter season from 3 to 4 weekly flights starting this winter. Their daily service during summer will continue as today.

CO uses a B757 on this service.

It is expected that SAS will relaunch their OSL-EWR service next spring (March) using a wide body aircraft.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

What wide-bodied aircraft will SAS use?? 767s Big grin

Another addition to SKs plethora of aircraft types!


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

SK should have shown an interest in resuming Oslo-EWR much sooner. They have allowed CO to build up a strong lead.

SK would have shown no interest in re-starting a long haul from Oslo if CO hadnt. I have no sympathy for SK they have ignored Norway in favour of CPH for years, they deserve to have someone else step in.


User currently offlineHeisan67 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5906 times:

SAS really has made a big mistake...ending their service...giving CO an excellent opportunity to start this nonstop service without any hard competition. Now when CO is doing very well SAS suddenly wants to start this service again...event though this time there is another carrier already flying the exact same service.
SAS has never been very happy to start any service from Oslo. Now when SAS Braathens has launched more an more nonstop service from Norwya to Europe, SAS discovers a hugh loss in passengers out of CPH since Norwegians and Swedes for for many years have been filling the SAS planes out of CPH.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

SK operated the route unprofitable. Sounded like a lack of demand, or too much supply with the 333's. Now CO makes the route profitable with a reduced non-daily service (however offering the possibility to have daily connections by the KL-codeshare over AMS) and a smaller airplane. And now SK thinks they can enter the market, offering even more supply, and make it work. It would surprise me. Not only they are late, but they also lack the connections in OSL compared to CO in EWR. It seems like suicide...

User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
Not only they are late, but they also lack the connections in OSL compared to CO in EWR

Lol, how many connections does CO offer on OSL? Same thing...



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1339 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
Lol, how many connections does CO offer on OSL? Same thing

The point is the CO has a ton of connections on their end (EWR), whereas SK has very few on their end (OSL).


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

But for CO, OSL is the destination. Their new model is EWR direct to Europe destinations rather than connect to a partner. They serve Oslo, Stockholm, 3 destinations in England, 2 in scottland, 3 in the irelands, and 2 in germany with 757s (as well as seasonal CLE-LGW), and it is working well so far. They put their 762s (same density, greater range/cargo) to the cities they 752 can't reach, and they put the 764s/772s on the higher density routes like Paris, LGW, AMS, etc. The goal is to get Americans where they want to go directly without confusing connections in Europe (most Americans would rather connect in a US hub than go directly to a foreign hub and switch carriers), and also getting Europeans directly to NYC (and beyond, I suppose) without needing to connect at all. With 23 destinations and growing from EWR, it is keeping their bottom line from totally collapsing.

CO is moving their 757s to these routes at great speed. They are 16/156, with sleeper seats with private video in front, overhead video in rear (no powerports though, grrr). It's like a 727 throwback usage. And by not focusing on sending customers to London/Paris/AMS just to connect, it frees up 772s for other duty (two 752s direct will replace a 777 to a euro hub, while one 752 will allow using a 76x instead). So without buying new 772s, they are able to open new routes to Africa and Asia.

And at EWR of course, they have connections from nearly EVERY destination they serve in the US, all arriving within 4 hours of the OSL departure time, and all leaving within the OSL arrival time on the return.

I'm taking a 752 from Hamburg to EWR in August in BusFirst, so I'll get to see if the cozy factor of the 752 is a plus or minus compared to the 777 I'm taking over to Frankfurt (I'm betting it is a plus). I'm coming from LAX.

Either way, CO is much better equipped to serve OSL than SK is to serve EWR. Smaller plane + better infrastructure support + more connections throughout US.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineHimmelstormer From Denmark, joined Mar 2005, 143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Regarding SAS' flight to EWR from CPH, I have done the trip a few times and the flights I have been on, have never been 'packed' with Norwegians. Also, there is a much higher number of Swedes compared to Norwegians in CPH, since people in Southern Sweden is part of the airport's catchment area of 5.5 million, and therefore, fly directly out of CPH.
The Øresund region is also much more populous than Oslo(I don't know the number but my guess will be around 2-2,5 million people, if that). That's not to say that a SK service out of OSL is not needed, but to suggest that Danes and Swedes should fly via OSL instead, is maybe a bit silly.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

Ikramerica, nice analysis. However, there are still many European cities that they don't serve direct, but through AMS or CDG. There are many European, like BUD, PRG, WAW, VIE, CPH, RIX, etc, that don't have a CO service (yet), and also some other important cities like MUC, STR, DUS, VCE, HEL, are not serviced by them, but by KL or AF.

http://www.continental.com/travel/de...on/routes/maps/co-world_200506.pdf

I see them adding some more service, but there must be a critical mass to support the flight in each town.


User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5601 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
Ikramerica, nice analysis. However, there are still many European cities that they don't serve direct, but through AMS or CDG. There are many European, like BUD, PRG, WAW, VIE, CPH, RIX, etc, that don't have a CO service (yet), and also some other important cities like MUC, STR, DUS, VCE, HEL, are not serviced by them, but by KL or AF.

http://www.continental.com/travel/de...on/routes/maps/co-world_200506.pdf

I see them adding some more service, but there must be a critical mass to support the flight in each town.

Critical mass does not always mean gross population. BRS is smaller than many of the cities you mentioned, but it has a rather wealthy base, many int'l companies in the catchment area, and close to tourism to make up for the lack of population.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4282 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

Quoting Heisan67 (Reply 3):
SAS really has made a big mistake...ending their service...giving CO an excellent opportunity to start this nonstop service without any hard competition.

The mistake started when SK ordered 333s/343s instead of aircraft that would allow the airline to serve thinner long-haul routes.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3843 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

actually we serve OSL/ARN, 2 in Scotland, 3 in Ireland, 4 in England, and 3 in Germany. Plus MAD/LIS/CDG/TLV/DEL/FCO/MXP/GVA/ZRH/BRU/AMS


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 4994 times:

C´mooon, Oslo isnt a major hub in Scandinavia, right? Its CPH thats the biggest in Scandinavia..

Wonder how long CO gonna fly those narrowbody 757´s to Oslo and are they pack jammed??

In the fall the route is over, mark my words!

Micke//SE  Cool



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

CO headquaters is in Houston, which happens to be the oil business capital of the world.
Norway is a weathly oil producing country, lots of oil business going on in OSL even if SVG is their oil centre.
I see CO flying to Norway may have something to do with this.
Maybe that flight won't do good daily wintertime, but may keep 4 per week then.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3843 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

OSL is a great city for us...............its not going anywhere...........it was there last fall as well buddy!


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

SK has missed the boat on OSL-EWR. They could swamp the OSL-EWR by going back in with CO already on the route, resulting in losses for both carriers. This will be even worse if SK uses a 763 or 333.

If SK could not make money as the monopoly carrier on OSL-EWR, how can they hope to make money when CO is alread on the route now?



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

IF CO is so keen on expanding and are going to cities like Oslo and Bristol, why don't they come back to Dusseldorf? They had regular DC10 and 757 for a few years and stopped in 2001. The catchment area in North-Rhine Westphalia is almost 10 million people and there are still quite a lot of big companies in the area. Also Germans love to take their vacations in the States and the connections in EWR would really make sense for CO to come back to DUS. Plus not all Germans living in NRW like going to FRA to get somewhere.

They started EWR-TXL service along with DL and I really don't think there is enough business in the Berlin for two direct flights (sorry Berliners but its true right?). Let DL have TXL. CO should move back to EWR, but not with the 757. A 767 is much better on this route.



A330 man.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

Of course CO can't cover every city in europe direct. It would be pointless to try. So they find the markets they can use, and fly direct there, and then as I stated, feed major destinations and hubs of partners (like AMS, CDG, LGW, MAD) with 777s and 764s, with some flights from IAH as well (no Madrid).

CO europe service is very seasonal, since americans fly to europe mostly in the summer. they put those 752-I versions on those routes in summer, then move them to domestic and vacation routes in winter. Scottland service stops when the whether turns chilly, for example. They also downgrade some 767 summer routes to 752 in winter, and upgrade other slimmer summer routes in winter

As an LAX resident, it's pretty clear how CO works it around the year. In the summer travel season, LAX-EWR and LAX-IAH is all 752,753,73x, many times a day.

In Winter (or as they say in germany, Winter), some of the europe routes go away, some downsize to 757s, and the LAX-EWR and LAX-IAH get a few 767s a day while the 753s that were on those routes head to high density, low cost holiday market like the carribean or beach mexico.

As for CPH, if CO felt it was a better business to fly direct there instead of Hamburg, Berlin, Oslo or Stockholm, they would do so. But since SAS has that covered with a big plane, why bother? If people really want to go, they can connect out of AMS on KLM, out of CDG on AF, etc. But if they determine that there is a market for it in the future, and they have the planes (once more 753s and 738s come on line to replace the 752 on the route it would be pulled from), CO will add more flights like CPH, MUN, VIE, etc. (though some destinations would require the new winglets and an extra belly fuel tank modification, which costs...)



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4331 times:

Ikramerica quote "Of course CO can't cover every city in europe direct. It would be pointless to try."

I don't want CO to fly to every city in Europe....just Dusseldorf!  biggrin  It would make MY life soooooo much more convenient.  cheeky 



A330 man.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 19):
I don't want CO to fly to every city in Europe....just Dusseldorf!

For flights to the USA isn't CGN as good for you as DUS?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
But for CO, OSL is the destination. Their new model is EWR direct to Europe destinations rather than connect to a partner. They serve Oslo, Stockholm, 3 destinations in England, 2 in scottland, 3 in the irelands, and 2 in germany with 757s (as well as seasonal CLE-LGW), and it is working well so far. They put their 762s (same density, greater range/cargo) to the cities they 752 can't reach, and they put the 764s/772s on the higher density routes like Paris, LGW, AMS, etc. The goal is to get Americans where they want to go directly without confusing connections in Europe (most Americans would rather connect in a US hub than go directly to a foreign hub and switch carriers), and also getting Europeans directly to NYC (and beyond, I suppose) without needing to connect at all. With 23 destinations and growing from EWR, it is keeping their bottom line from totally collapsing.

CO is moving their 757s to these routes at great speed. They are 16/156, with sleeper seats with private video in front, overhead video in rear (no powerports though, grrr). It's like a 727 throwback usage. And by not focusing on sending customers to London/Paris/AMS just to connect, it frees up 772s for other duty (two 752s direct will replace a 777 to a euro hub, while one 752 will allow using a 76x instead). So without buying new 772s, they are able to open new routes to Africa and Asia.

And at EWR of course, they have connections from nearly EVERY destination they serve in the US, all arriving within 4 hours of the OSL departure time, and all leaving within the OSL arrival time on the return.

I'm taking a 752 from Hamburg to EWR in August in BusFirst, so I'll get to see if the cozy factor of the 752 is a plus or minus compared to the 777 I'm taking over to Frankfurt (I'm betting it is a plus). I'm coming from LAX.

Either way, CO is much better equipped to serve OSL than SK is to serve EWR. Smaller plane + better infrastructure support + more connections throughout US.

Yes,

CO is evolving in an airline with a very clear and good strategy!
The 752WL(winglet) will be a huge succes I believe,Most 757's will be retrofitted and a large amount placed on the Transatlantic routes, also the Cabin will be updated,(PTV's, new seats et.) or so I'am told!
The free 777's will become available to Africa etc, that would be great too!

And it is true, you rather travel in style on a retrofitted 757 transatlantic to thinner destinations rather then cattle, it's more like a bigger private jet!

My choice!


User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

I can't imagine sitting in coach on a 752 for 8 1/2 hours (westbound)...or even 7 1/2 hours (eastbound).

User currently offlineDrdivo From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
There are many European, like BUD, PRG, WAW, VIE, CPH, RIX, etc, that don't have a CO service (yet), and also some other important cities like MUC, STR, DUS, VCE, HEL

Watch for the summer 2006 service announcements later this year - you'll see a number of these cities targeted for expansion once the 75M program increases further.

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 17):
They started EWR-TXL service along with DL and I really don't think there is enough business in the Berlin for two direct flights

Berlin and Brandenburg posted a substantial bounty/incentive to a US airline that offered nonstop service from the US to TXL. Both CO and DL started service partly on that basis; CO's break-even is clearly lower than DL's will be, inasmuch as a 75M requires fewer crew and has lower operating costs than the DL 763 that will be operating from JFK. I agree with you that one carrier will drop out of this market (TXL) and I am betting on the airline with the substantial New York hub and the lower CASM.



Respectfully - the Divo
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting 2travel2know: "For flights to the USA isn't CGN as good for you as DUS?"

CGN is becomming a very important destination for LCCs. Germanwings, Hapag-Lloyd Express, DBA & Easyjet all operate from there while DUS has the traditional operations. I just assumed CO would choose DUS since it served it in the past and is familiar with the operations. To be honest either airport would be fine with me.


Quoting Drdivo: CO's break-even is clearly lower than DL's will be, inasmuch as a 75M requires fewer crew and has lower operating costs than the DL 763 that will be operating from JFK.

All may be true but I still prefer to fly at least a 767 on trans-Atlantic routes. I simply can't see myself sitting comfortably in a 757 for such a long flight....call me spoiled Smile



A330 man.
25 CALMSP : yeah there are still a number of cities that dont have service.........and if we recall that Gordon had said he wanted EWR to serve around 32-35 europ
26 STT757 : From what I've read on the boards it's likely CO may convert all their 757-200s to their International configuration and improve the inflight equipme
27 SWISSER : what is the difference between a 767 coach to a future 757 of CO? New seats on 757 less noise on the 757, narrowbody personal monitor on 757, few US
28 Avek00 : Flying an international config. 757 is no worse than the Upper Deck of a 747.
29 Avek00 : ...it's familiar, alright - the route was a piss-poor performer, as has been the case for most every attempt by CO to penetrate the German market bey
30 Cgnnrw : Quoting Avek00 "...it's familiar, alright - the route was a piss-poor performer, as has been the case for most every attempt by CO to penetrate the Ge
31 Post contains images Slider : To their detriment, IMHO. Much like DL flying a 763 to TXL against a CO 757, SK will hemorrage red ink on that flight for the reason Ikr denotes belo
32 SAS_A330-300 : I don't think there will be any problems for CO at OSL as long as they are the only carrier. ARN on the other hand will be pretty tough competing wit
33 Avek00 : LH is still on EWR/ORD-DUS.
34 SWISSER : Hop on the ICE, get to BRU in 2 hours and catch a US bound flight direct to ORD,IAD,ATL,JFK,EWR with DL,UA,AA,CO! we would be honored to serve you!
35 N77014 : I don't think CO worries about filling a relatively small B757 from ARN. MH only flies 3x's a week; not an option for a J-class traveller. And we've
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