Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 9877 posts, RR: 51 Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2281 times:
- Most 747-400 backlog are mainly freighters (-F's, ERF's)
- The 772LRF is said to offer superior payload/range performace & economics compared to the 744F/ERF's.
On top of that, many 747-400 are waiting to be converted into Special Freighters costing 1/4 the price of a new 744F/ERF.
Boeing no doubt made a carefull trade-off between the potential of B777-200LRF sales versus the influence this would have on the 747-400 line.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 3850 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2157 times:
..and if the 747ADV is launched, that freighter version will carry approximately 135 tons and has the big advantage of nose loading capability, which neither the A380F, 777LRF and 744SF conversions have.
Kole Feut un' 'nen steiffen Wind gifft 'nen krusen Buedel un' 'nen luetten Pint
Quotes from this article
- The (777) freighter version will carry 101 metric tons of cargo a distance of 5,200 nautical miles. In comparison, the popular freighter version of Boeing's jumbo jet, the 747-400, can carry 113 metric tons over 4,450 miles.
- The 777 will offer twin-engine efficiency and lower fuel consumption than the jumbo jet, and could be the preferred choice on some long-range routes with smaller cargo needs
But you also forget to post, from this very same article the following:
"Air Cargo Management Group's market forecast is based on an assumption that Boeing also will soon launch the new derivative of its jumbo, the 747 Advanced, and that this too will have a freighter version later.
If Boeing failed to launch that airplane — which would be a surprise — the market for the 777 freighter would be even bigger. "
--So their is room for both... The 747Adv Freighter is bigger plane than the 744 and also the 747Adv Passanger version.
Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 9877 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1880 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 8): "Air Cargo Management Group's market forecast is based on an assumption that Boeing also will soon launch the new derivative of its jumbo, the 747 Advanced, and that this too will have a freighter version later.
If Boeing failed to launch that airplane — which would be a surprise — the market for the 777 freighter would be even bigger. "
--So their is room for both... The 747Adv Freighter is bigger plane than the 744 and also the 747Adv Passanger version.
Boeing has a backlog of 29 747-400s left to build, of which 20 are freighters.
But Boeing needs some potential 747 Advanced customers to step up and order additional 747-400s as a "bridge" to the new jumbo, Bell said.
Boeing has said the 747 Advanced would be ready to enter service in 2009 should the program get the go-ahead from the Boeing board.
Earlier this week, Boeing announced that General Electric will be the sole supplier of engines on the 747 Advanced should the plane be developed.
If it's not, the 747 line in Everett is likely to be closed, possibly as soon as late next year.
**Boeing has decided to offer a better freighter (7772LRF) then the 744, but still needs 747-400 (likely also freighters) sales in the next few years as a bridge to the new 744 Adv.**
At the same time they invested in the 744 SF conversion business.
IMO Boeing made a difficult trade-off between 744Adv feasibility and 772LRF prospects. Which is the right thing IMO.
BoeingBus From United States, joined May 2004, 1565 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1835 times:
Again, the 747Adv offers more capacity and more efficient engines... these are the main selling points for the 747Adv. 777 can't match the loadingc capability/capacity/efficiency/MTOW nor can the 744F or 744SF for that matter.
The 747Adv is a go... not only for pride reasons, but it will be a solid performer and a natural upgrade for the current 742 and 744 base.
Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 9877 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1805 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 11): The 747Adv is a go... not only for pride reasons, but it will be a solid performer and a natural upgrade for the current 742 and 744 base.
"As a freighter, the 747 Advanced would be able to haul about 134 metric tons of cargo."
Cheers!
Ric
- I doubt Boeing is looking for selling aircraft under cost price for years
- The great specs of the 744adv won´t help keep open the line until 2009 (earliest). Bell tells us it is neccesary to fill the line until 2009.
NorCal From United States, joined Mar 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1514 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 15): - I doubt Boeing is looking for selling aircraft under cost price for years
No they probably won't sell many at a loss, but they might sell them at cost or offer them in packages along with the 777 at a very nice discounted price. The article you provided did mention that airlines are still interested in both the 777F and the 744F (well at least accoring to Boeing, but who knows if that is true )
If they are serious about the 747Adv and have enough orders, they will find a way to keep the line open. Paris will have all tha answers
"Rapid decompression leads to involuntary exiting of the Aircraft"
"In the past, the airplane manufacturer has indicated that a decision on whether to produce the 747 Advanced -- which would be slightly larger, fly further and be more fuel efficient than its predecessor -- depends largely on whether it can keep the existing 747 production line open.
Thanks in part for demand for cargo versions of the jumbo jet, it now looks more likely that will happen, Mulally said."
Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 9877 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 640 times:
With the 777 freighter poised to eat into the 747 freighter market, Boeing now must either upgrade the 747 or end production.
"You either move it up in the market or get rid of it," he said. "This increases the need to make an improve-the-product-or-fold-the-program decision."
Analyst Paul Nesbit of JSA Research thinks Boeing will scrap its plans for the 747 Advanced and end jumbo-jet production.
"The demand for it would be fairly weak," he said. "My guess is that we'll never see another 747 model."
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18437 posts, RR: 60 Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 638 times:
is 1 a month enough? if so, they have up through 2007 covered. Just would need to sell about 15 between now and then, which would seem possible (6 sales a year, including 3 for the remainder of this year), even if a few had to be sold at loss or packaged with some 747ADV discounts.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3081 posts, RR: 89 Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 613 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
It is a good thing that Mr Nisbet doesn't work for Boeing
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Boeing Co. is optimistic that it will get enough orders for its aging 767 and 747 jets to continue production past this year, the chief executive of its commercial aircraft unit said on Tuesday.
"We're very pleasantly surprised," Alan Mulally said when asked at a company conference for analysts and investors about ongoing demand for the two aircraft which are both expected to be replaced by newer models in coming years. "
"Thanks in part for demand for cargo versions of the jumbo jet, it now looks more likely that will happen, Mulally said.
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