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Russian Planes In Major Western Airlines?  
User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9780 times:

I am trying to remember if there is any Russian plane currently flying for a major western airline. There´s a TUPOLEV that looks very similar to the 757, but have never heard of it operational. Does any one knows a airline that uses it?
I can only remember of those small Yaks and LETs flying in South and Central America, and in eastern Europe. But non of them are in any major colors (they are also small planes, with limited range, and most of them are old).
What are the reasons for not seeing ANTONOVs and TUPOLEVs around? Price, cost of running it, parts, lobby or what?
Russian acft makers have a tradition in the military field, but don´t seem to have it for commercial.
I do appreciate all the answers.
Thanks a lot.
TP727

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9753 times:

Thats the TU204 but it only flies with DHL cargo, Air Foyle have AN124s not sure where based though.

[Edited 2005-05-24 15:04:45]

User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9743 times:

the 757 lookalike is the TU204 I believe. But it hasnt been in service with any Western airlines. I think Domededevo use it. It has not had that many different operators to date.

Il probably be shot down for saying this, but Its simply because of the reputation, I myself know TUs are reliable and safe, but im not representitive of a majority of the flying public. Soviet airliners and airlines still have a notorious record with the general flying public. And any airline here in the UK would be crazy to have Russian aircraft operating its flights. Even the Russian airlines i.e. Aeroflot and Transaero are movign away from Russian aircraft.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9729 times:

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 2):
And any airline here in the UK would be crazy to have Russian aircraft operating its flights.

Although people in the UK don't seem to have a problem flying TU154s to Bulgaria for example. Of course if they knew it was a Russian aircraft they might think different - but as we've said before, the majority of passengers have little idea of what they are flying on...



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9726 times:

The TU204 flies with TNT, leased...
The British company doing some contracting/marketing work for Antonov Design Bureau is called AirFoyle. They don't own any Russian aircraft.

There are no western airlines owning any Russian aircraft if you ask me.

Cheers
E


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9703 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
Thats the TU204 but it only flies with DHL cargo, Air Floyd Have AN124s not sure where based though.

TU204 is correct but it is actually TNT and not DHL who charters these and they are operated by various Russian Firms, initially Air Cairo was involved as well.

The An124 is managed by Air Foyle but operated by - I have not checked that but believe it is Volga Dnjepr.

Other exceptions was the Yak-40 with General Air in Hamburg and also with an Italian domestic carrier, both no majors.

Both TNT and Air Folye are not major western airlines, one is an Integrator the other a cargo charter airline / broker. I believe there never has been any Russian airliner with a major carrier in the west.

To adjust a Clinton word -. its the economics.....



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9670 times:

Perhaps Heavylift qualify as a western airline . . . and they operated AN-124s and IL-76 freighters.

KC Sim
Bangkok


User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9638 times:

Quoting TP727 (Thread starter):
can only remember of those small Yaks and LETs flying in South and Central America

Just want to mention that LET is not russian aircraft but made in Czech



just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9628 times:

HeavyLift operated Volga Dnepr An124's.

Companies like Air Foyle, HeavyLift and Coyne Aviation all did the contracting/marketing for cargo flights, leasing Russian airplanes from small Russian and Ukrainian airlines to do individual flights. A 'middle-man' position, not really and airline owning airplanes. HeavyLift have/had some Western material though (A300, Belfast, 707). And now they seem to have popped up in Australia with the Belfast again and some 727's.

Eduard

[Edited 2005-05-24 15:16:01]

User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1685 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9593 times:

TP727,

Do you consider Latvia a Western country ?

Than you could say, LATcharter operates with the Yak42 out of Riga  Wink



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9564 times:

Quoting MH017 (Reply 9):
TP727,

Do you consider Latvia a Western country ?

Than you could say, LATcharter operates with the Yak42 out of Riga

The question was "major western airline"

It has been saif about the An124, Il 76 which are managed by Coyne and others, these are not on the UK register and they are niche aircraft anyway. There is an An (74 I believe) with Channel Express out of Coventry, even painted with their markings but again, not on the UK register. afaik

No passenger type Russian a/c has ever been with a major western airline.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9526 times:

Quoting TP727 (Thread starter):
TUPOLEV that looks very similar to the 757

TU-204

Quoting TP727 (Thread starter):
What are the reasons for not seeing ANTONOVs and TUPOLEVs around

Fuel Guzlerrs Most of them.Expensive to run.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

if I m not mistaken TU154 was used by Egyptair for very short period of time


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9475 times:

Quoting PRGLY (Reply 12):
if I m not mistaken TU154 was used by Egyptair for very short period of time

I think I've seen pictures of an IL62 in Egyptair colours too. I suspect this was in the days of Nasser before it looked Westwards politically.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineYukonTrader From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9445 times:

Hi guys,

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
Other exceptions was the Yak-40 with General Air in Hamburg and also with an Italian domestic carrier, both no majors.

That airline was Alinord, correct.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
There is an An (74 I believe) with Channel Express out of Coventry, even painted with their markings but again, not on the UK register.

The Antonov is operated by Enimex for Atlantic Airlines of Coventry, if I remember that correctly. And according to my knowledge, AAG are also involved in the deal with the Air Cairo Tu-204s flying for TNT.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
No passenger type Russian a/c has ever been with a major western airline.

That is the list for the classic Western European countries, but wouldn't for example Egypt Air during the country's flirt with the Reds count? MS operated the An-24, Il-18, Il-62 and Tu-154 for a while:

- Seven An-24 were delivered new to United Arab Airlines in summer 1965, registered SU-ANV, SU-ANX, SU-ANY, SU-ANZ, SU-AOA, SU-AOB, SU-AOC. The last four of the above were all lost in their UAA days, the three surivivors were transferred to Egypt Air in 1971 and were last reported active in 1975.

- Four Il-18D were delivered new to United Arab Airlines in 1968 / 1969, registered SU-AOV, SU-AOX, SU-AOY and SU-APC. The latter was w/o 20 Mar 1969 in Assuan, two weeks old. In 1971, the three survivors were transferred to newly formed Egypt Air after the UAA break-up.

- Eight Tu-154 delivered new inbetween Dec 1973 and March 1974, registered SU-AXB to SU-AXI (cn's 048 to 055). AXB was w/o on a training flight 09 Jul 1974, the reminder was transfered back to Aeroflot on 19 Mar 1975.

- Eight Il-62 leased from AFL from 1971 onwards, registered SU-ARN, SU-ARO, SU-ARW, SU-ARX, SU-AVL, SU-AVU, SU-AVW, SU-AWJ. The first two (ARN and ARO) even flew with United Arab Airlines markings before MS being formed, some a/c were returned after a under a year and replaced with others, so you never had all eight of them in service with MS at the same time. SU-ARN was w/o 16 Jun 1972, the last Il-62 were returned to AFL around the winter 1973/74.

Other operators of Soviet airliners in the region include Syrian Air which is to the day flying a mix of Yak-40, An-24/-26, Tu-134B-3, Tu-154M and Il-76TD along with the Airbus A320, Boeing 727-200 Adv., and the B747SP.

A couple of years ago, some Turkish operators tried their luck with Russian equipment: Greenair (Tu-134 and Tu-154) as well as Holiday Airlines (Tu-154) come to my mind.

Then we've also had combined Western / Eastern fleets with some of the airlines in mainland China, although that would be stretching the definition of what elements make an airline a "major Western airline".

There has also been a number of former Soviet airliners in Africa (TAAG Angola Il-62, LAM Mocambique Il-62 spring to mind).

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 2):
Il probably be shot down for saying this, but Its simply because of the reputation, I myself know TUs are reliable and safe, but im not representitive of a majority of the flying public.

Unfortunately yes, this is part of the problem. Legal issues, such as increasingly tight noise regulations. have blocked existing business opportunities further.

But on the other hand, there are also economic factors that speak against their operation. More often than not, the matching Russian counterpart for a Western model is considerably heavier, resulting in less appealing payload/range opportunities. Availability of spares, and the need to send the aircraft back to the factory for major overhauls is another hinderance - the above-mentionned Yak-40 operators General Air and Alinord themselves reported that this was one reason why they terminated their liaison with the Yak.

Cheers
Lukas


User currently offlineTP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9324 times:

Thank you all for your answers, I did appreciate everyone.

PRGLY

I am sorry, I should know that. Once I flew in one from PLU to VIX with a friend that brought two from Czech Republic. At the time he said he had bought the plane in Russia, and took it to Czech Republic to make a few avionics adjustments. It´s a really fine acft, no question about this!

I remember seeing Aeroflot´s IL-96 in GIG. But that flight has not happened for a long time now. Too Bad!

Later
TP727


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9281 times:

The definition of "major western airline" is certainly vague, but best be described by safety and operating standards. It is used sometimes in the annual airline safety report in Flight International and includes by definition Western Europe,North America, Australia and parts of Asia, certainly not China and Taiwan but HKG, SIN and Japan. I dont want to step on anybodies toes here but there are exclusions and Egypt as well as Syria and certainly not Turkey would qualify but there should be serious thoughts about including Dubai into the major western airline league. .


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9273 times:

There´s a brand new a/c buildt in Russia that fly Moscow-Vladivostok non-stop, thats gotta be a LONG route!!

Anybody knows the range in Km, dont have the Circle Mapper in my PC....

Theres a picture of it inhere somewhere.

Thx!!

Micke//SE  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9155 times:

The TU214 shouldn't have the fuel and noise problems the other older Russian aircraft have had seeing as it has RR engines. The IL-96 has a model with western engines as well. I hope someone can add the photo of the TU-204/214 in Mumbai to the database while Aeroflot is using it there. It would also be nice to see Aeroflot make a purchase for more IL-96s and TU-204s with western engines... if someone is going to ensure a future for Russian airliners in the 21st century it has to be them that leads the way probably.

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3811 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9047 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 17):
Anybody knows the range in Km, dont have the Circle Mapper in my PC....

Well, every PC with an internet connection has the GCM "in it", since it is browser based.



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8820 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 4):
There are no western airlines owning any Russian aircraft if you ask me.

There are some Russian aircrafts in Western Airlines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © ThiagoPM




MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineNotacheezyname From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8557 times:

Isn't it a certification issue?
Any aircraft operated by a US carrier must be certified by the FAA and most, if not all, Russian built aircraft are not.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8508 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 20):
There are some Russian aircrafts in Western Airlines:

"Western" in this sense refers to the political sense, not the geographical sense. No joy.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 22):
"Western" in this sense refers to the political sense, not the geographical sense. No joy.

You got a point  Wink



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineSFO2SVO From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Do these count:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/103957/M/

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/700358/M/

?



318-19-20-21 332 343 717 727 737-234578 743-4 752 763 772 D9/10 M11/8x/90 F70 RJ85 ATR72 SF340 E120 TU34/54 IL18/62/86/9
25 PlaneSmart : Any airline that has to obtain finance or lease to acquire aircraft is going to experience problems if they select an Eastern European built airliner.
26 Dalavia : During the 1960s, Japan Air Lines operated Tu-114 aircraft in co-operation with Aeroflot. A little later, KLM operated Il-62 aircraft, also in co-oper
27 FlyMIA : Also Russian cockpits are much different from Western built ones. There are different gauges and everything is in Russian. I dont think they would mak
28 Ikramerica : Do all their gauges go to 11 or something?
29 Iwok : The reason that they were tending away from Ilyshin and Tupolez was that they were not certified to fly in most western countries. I believe this pro
30 FlyKiWi : That's right, and not also in gauges and instruments, most of them in main navigation systems as well. Of course, they are fitted with instruments to
31 EnviroTO : Yes, both the IL-96 and the TU-214 are available with western glass cockpits and engines.
32 Post contains images YukonTrader : What about cyrillic lettering and metric units, to start the complications with... ...and we could as well make that 'most Russian planes have 4 or e
33 Sterne82 : Not entirely true... The IL-96M (and the T - crago version) has been presented in 1997, some orders had been placed. Those were different from the IL
34 YukonTrader : Hi Benjamin Not at all, especially not in terms of fundamental issues I'd be aware of! And many thanks for summing it up. If CIS airlines do have some
35 Post contains links Blrsea : New Russian airliner delivered
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