TP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10554 times:
I am trying to remember if there is any Russian plane currently flying for a major western airline. There´s a TUPOLEV that looks very similar to the 757, but have never heard of it operational. Does any one knows a airline that uses it?
I can only remember of those small Yaks and LETs flying in South and Central America, and in eastern Europe. But non of them are in any major colors (they are also small planes, with limited range, and most of them are old).
What are the reasons for not seeing ANTONOVs and TUPOLEVs around? Price, cost of running it, parts, lobby or what?
Russian acft makers have a tradition in the military field, but don´t seem to have it for commercial.
I do appreciate all the answers.
Thanks a lot.
Sevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10517 times:
the 757 lookalike is the TU204 I believe. But it hasnt been in service with any Western airlines. I think Domededevo use it. It has not had that many different operators to date.
Il probably be shot down for saying this, but Its simply because of the reputation, I myself know TUs are reliable and safe, but im not representitive of a majority of the flying public. Soviet airliners and airlines still have a notorious record with the general flying public. And any airline here in the UK would be crazy to have Russian aircraft operating its flights. Even the Russian airlines i.e. Aeroflot and Transaero are movign away from Russian aircraft.
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10503 times:
Quoting Sevenair (Reply 2): And any airline here in the UK would be crazy to have Russian aircraft operating its flights.
Although people in the UK don't seem to have a problem flying TU154s to Bulgaria for example. Of course if they knew it was a Russian aircraft they might think different - but as we've said before, the majority of passengers have little idea of what they are flying on...
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10398 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10477 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 1): Thats the TU204 but it only flies with DHL cargo, Air Floyd Have AN124s not sure where based though.
TU204 is correct but it is actually TNT and not DHL who charters these and they are operated by various Russian Firms, initially Air Cairo was involved as well.
The An124 is managed by Air Foyle but operated by - I have not checked that but believe it is Volga Dnjepr.
Other exceptions was the Yak-40 with General Air in Hamburg and also with an Italian domestic carrier, both no majors.
Both TNT and Air Folye are not major western airlines, one is an Integrator the other a cargo charter airline / broker. I believe there never has been any Russian airliner with a major carrier in the west.
To adjust a Clinton word -. its the economics.....
IL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2239 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10402 times:
HeavyLift operated Volga Dnepr An124's.
Companies like Air Foyle, HeavyLift and Coyne Aviation all did the contracting/marketing for cargo flights, leasing Russian airplanes from small Russian and Ukrainian airlines to do individual flights. A 'middle-man' position, not really and airline owning airplanes. HeavyLift have/had some Western material though (A300, Belfast, 707). And now they seem to have popped up in Australia with the Belfast again and some 727's.
Than you could say, LATcharter operates with the Yak42 out of Riga
The question was "major western airline"
It has been saif about the An124, Il 76 which are managed by Coyne and others, these are not on the UK register and they are niche aircraft anyway. There is an An (74 I believe) with Channel Express out of Coventry, even painted with their markings but again, not on the UK register. afaik
No passenger type Russian a/c has ever been with a major western airline.
YukonTrader From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10219 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5): Other exceptions was the Yak-40 with General Air in Hamburg and also with an Italian domestic carrier, both no majors.
That airline was Alinord, correct.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): There is an An (74 I believe) with Channel Express out of Coventry, even painted with their markings but again, not on the UK register.
The Antonov is operated by Enimex for Atlantic Airlines of Coventry, if I remember that correctly. And according to my knowledge, AAG are also involved in the deal with the Air Cairo Tu-204s flying for TNT.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): No passenger type Russian a/c has ever been with a major western airline.
That is the list for the classic Western European countries, but wouldn't for example Egypt Air during the country's flirt with the Reds count? MS operated the An-24, Il-18, Il-62 and Tu-154 for a while:
- Seven An-24 were delivered new to United Arab Airlines in summer 1965, registered SU-ANV, SU-ANX, SU-ANY, SU-ANZ, SU-AOA, SU-AOB, SU-AOC. The last four of the above were all lost in their UAA days, the three surivivors were transferred to Egypt Air in 1971 and were last reported active in 1975.
- Four Il-18D were delivered new to United Arab Airlines in 1968 / 1969, registered SU-AOV, SU-AOX, SU-AOY and SU-APC. The latter was w/o 20 Mar 1969 in Assuan, two weeks old. In 1971, the three survivors were transferred to newly formed Egypt Air after the UAA break-up.
- Eight Tu-154 delivered new inbetween Dec 1973 and March 1974, registered SU-AXB to SU-AXI (cn's 048 to 055). AXB was w/o on a training flight 09 Jul 1974, the reminder was transfered back to Aeroflot on 19 Mar 1975.
- Eight Il-62 leased from AFL from 1971 onwards, registered SU-ARN, SU-ARO, SU-ARW, SU-ARX, SU-AVL, SU-AVU, SU-AVW, SU-AWJ. The first two (ARN and ARO) even flew with United Arab Airlines markings before MS being formed, some a/c were returned after a under a year and replaced with others, so you never had all eight of them in service with MS at the same time. SU-ARN was w/o 16 Jun 1972, the last Il-62 were returned to AFL around the winter 1973/74.
Other operators of Soviet airliners in the region include Syrian Air which is to the day flying a mix of Yak-40, An-24/-26, Tu-134B-3, Tu-154M and Il-76TD along with the Airbus A320, Boeing 727-200 Adv., and the B747SP.
A couple of years ago, some Turkish operators tried their luck with Russian equipment: Greenair (Tu-134 and Tu-154) as well as Holiday Airlines (Tu-154) come to my mind.
Then we've also had combined Western / Eastern fleets with some of the airlines in mainland China, although that would be stretching the definition of what elements make an airline a "major Western airline".
There has also been a number of former Soviet airliners in Africa (TAAG Angola Il-62, LAM Mocambique Il-62 spring to mind).
Quoting Sevenair (Reply 2): Il probably be shot down for saying this, but Its simply because of the reputation, I myself know TUs are reliable and safe, but im not representitive of a majority of the flying public.
Unfortunately yes, this is part of the problem. Legal issues, such as increasingly tight noise regulations. have blocked existing business opportunities further.
But on the other hand, there are also economic factors that speak against their operation. More often than not, the matching Russian counterpart for a Western model is considerably heavier, resulting in less appealing payload/range opportunities. Availability of spares, and the need to send the aircraft back to the factory for major overhauls is another hinderance - the above-mentionned Yak-40 operators General Air and Alinord themselves reported that this was one reason why they terminated their liaison with the Yak.
TP727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10098 times:
Thank you all for your answers, I did appreciate everyone.
I am sorry, I should know that. Once I flew in one from PLU to VIX with a friend that brought two from Czech Republic. At the time he said he had bought the plane in Russia, and took it to Czech Republic to make a few avionics adjustments. It´s a really fine acft, no question about this!
I remember seeing Aeroflot´s IL-96 in GIG. But that flight has not happened for a long time now. Too Bad!
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10398 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10055 times:
The definition of "major western airline" is certainly vague, but best be described by safety and operating standards. It is used sometimes in the annual airline safety report in Flight International and includes by definition Western Europe,North America, Australia and parts of Asia, certainly not China and Taiwan but HKG, SIN and Japan. I dont want to step on anybodies toes here but there are exclusions and Egypt as well as Syria and certainly not Turkey would qualify but there should be serious thoughts about including Dubai into the major western airline league. .
EnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9929 times:
The TU214 shouldn't have the fuel and noise problems the other older Russian aircraft have had seeing as it has RR engines. The IL-96 has a model with western engines as well. I hope someone can add the photo of the TU-204/214 in Mumbai to the database while Aeroflot is using it there. It would also be nice to see Aeroflot make a purchase for more IL-96s and TU-204s with western engines... if someone is going to ensure a future for Russian airliners in the 21st century it has to be them that leads the way probably.