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A380 At YYZ...  
User currently offlineFubar37 From Canada, joined May 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

What are the chances of an A380 landing at YYZ sometime in the future? Maybe just the freighters for FEDEX? Sorry if this was brought up already.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Zero to none, I would say.

Of all the current A380 customers, the only possible one to service YYZ with the A380 is due course is perhaps LH. FRA-YYZ certainly will not be an initial LH A380 route though.

Fedex will never, ever, fly the A380 to YYZ.

YUL will likely see A380 service for years before YYZ does, courtesy of AF.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4105 times:

Chances YVR and YUL will see 380 serice before Toronto.

Having said that, a lot of the operator that currently flies the 747/777 to YYZ will eventually order the 380 and fly them to YYZ.
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA comes to mind. But it will be while b4 we see any of these arilines fly them to Toronto.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

KE perhaps... but considering that Korean ordered a very limited number of A380s, YYZ is surely not in the top of their list.


E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineBOAC707 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 278 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Can the ramps, runways and taxiways at YYZ withstand the weight and width of the this thing?


smokey classics to the end of time
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 2):
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA

With the limited exception of LH, not ONE of the airlines you mentioned would have a good reason to fly A380s into YYZ on a consistent basis.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 2):
Having said that, a lot of the operator that currently flies the 747/777 to YYZ will eventually order the 380 and fly them to YYZ.
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA comes to mind. But it will be while b4 we see any of these arilines fly them to Toronto.

Not to offend you, but what are you smoking? I would hardly say that BA is a sure thing for the A380 and after Airbus' temper tantrum I doubt they will be ordering ANYTHING airbus anytime soon. ANA and JAL, I doubt Japan will order it and ANA is a maybe.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3842 times:

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 6):
I would hardly say that BA is a sure thing for the A380 and after Airbus' temper tantrum I doubt they will be ordering ANYTHING airbus anytime soon. ANA and JAL, I doubt Japan will order it and ANA is a maybe.

Heck, I'll even give benefit of the doubt on said airlines ordering the 380 in the first place - they *STILL* won't be flying them into YYZ.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

I must disagree with my esteemed colleagues on a.net.
You can almost certainly expect to see an EK A380 at YYZ in the coming years. There is lots of VFR traffic to South Asia out of YYZ and EK will satisfy the demand.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineCXYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Whether we see A380s at YYZ is largely up to the GTAA I fear. If they could get their landing fees in line and develop the airport's potential as a gateway to North America, I think the chances would be much better. In the current state, I tend to agree with everything above. There's a possibility that we'll see them eventually, but not on a regular basis any time really soon.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7928 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

I think right now only three airlines have the potential to fly the A380-800 to YYZ: CX (if as expected they buy the plane or do a long-term lease through ILFC), LH and maybe VS.

CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.


User currently offlineCXYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 10):
CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.

As much as I would love to see CX flying A388s to YYZ, I think it's more likely that they'd add a second frequency on the route, possibly even one in three class configuration, rather than flying the A388.

There are a number of advantages for CX in running a second flight.
-Flexibility. There's a lot to be said for just providing the option of a second flight.
-Along those lines, they could potentially grab some of AC's pax when they are choosing AC based exclusively on scheduling.
-Two class configuration does very well at YYZ, and not just for CX. A388 is likely to have too much capacity in F, so a second flight operated by a three class a/c could offer the option of F while not having to fill it up with upgrades.
-Also, if CX were to decide to run one 2-class and one 3-class A343 per day, they'd have 530 seats available which is more than they're likely to have any potential A388s configured for anyway.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 10):
CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.

...and lose an A380-load of money serving a market that's highly seasonal and weak on premium demand.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineCXYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):

Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route. CX loads are reported to be high and except for during SARS they command a solid price for both Y and J. While there is relatively little F demand coming out of YYZ, there is a good deal of J demand from business travellers and wealthier astronaut families. Standard policy for many (most?) Toronto-based companies is J for intercontinental flights, but they won't pay for F.


User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
...and lose an A380-load of money serving a market that's highly seasonal and weak on premium demand

using that logic there should be NO hope of YUL seeing the 380 yet AF is going to launch it to YUL among others---

I think you underestimate YYZ as a destination in your suggestion that it is highly seasonal and lacks any premium traffic---slightly short sighted view with respect


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 14):
I think you underestimate YYZ as a destination in your suggestion that it is highly seasonal and lacks any premium traffic---slightly short sighted view with respect

Don't take my word for it - look at most longhaul carriers serving YYZ. Generally speaking, YYZ is a VFR market served almost exclusively by 2-cabin aircraft.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 13):
Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route.

Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

The lack of three cabins doesn't indicate that YYZ is more VFR. Many businesses have "business class only" rules for their employees so a lack of First Class demand may be more of a Canadian market issue than an indicator of VFR. Many Canadian executives aren't paid as much as their counterparts around the world in charge of similar sized operations. In the merger of Manulife and John Hancock the CEO of JH made significantly more that the CEO of Manulife as an example. Air Canada doesn't have any first class product at all... do you think that means that all of Canada is a big VFR recreational getaway?

User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

YYZ is a major and important destination for almost all of the 40+ airlines that serve it. However, there just isn't as large a demand for a premium F class product as you might think.
IMHO there is probably a higher demand for a F class product into YVR.

Cheers,
Kaz

[Edited 2005-05-26 16:50:06]


t.dot photography
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 16):
Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.

...and yet, CX mentioned on several occasions that YYZ is likely to see a second flight in coming years.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 16):
Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 13):
Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route.

Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.

When CX operated the 744 into YYZ, the route was only 3x or 4x weekly. The route has been consistently 343 since it became daily. So while it may have downgauged, total seats increased.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 19):
...and yet, CX mentioned on several occasions that YYZ is likely to see a second flight in coming years.

Sure - thing is, that works AGAINST the possibility of CX bringing an A380 to YYZ.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2207 times:

Im going to play devil's advocate here,

If Cathay was as profitable on YYZHKG as some have claim,and that this was in EXCESS to their average route profitability, then Cathay would have allocated more seats/bigger gauge/and or more frequencies to YYZ.

They have not. But they have elsewhere, which suggests, that YYZ may have average profitability conditions (in relation to their average individual flight profitability).

Perhaps eventually a 346 or 744 could find itself in YYZ, but CX has other priorities, for which there are obvious reasons.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2177 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 21):
Sure - thing is, that works AGAINST the possibility of CX bringing an A380 to YYZ.

Absolutely right. But it shows you that the supposedly highly-seasonal-weak-on-premium-demand-route is not doing as bad as you hinted.

Regarding the other carriers, EK mentioned in April that since they are limited by the UAE-Canada bilateral agreement, they will not only send the A380 to YYZ, but the aircraft will be in a high-density two-class config.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2172 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 22):
If Cathay was as profitable on YYZHKG as some have claim,and that this was in EXCESS to their average route profitability, then Cathay would have allocated more seats/bigger gauge/and or more frequencies to YYZ.

That's my point - Cathay has already DOWNGAUGED the YYZ flight from a 744 to a 340 as it is.



Live life to the fullest.
25 Yyz717 : While doubling frequencies. A daily 343 provides more seats than 4 weekly 744's. In due course, if growth continues on this route the 343 will be upg
26 Avek00 : Perhaps it will be upgauged to a 744/346, or else the frequency increased. But a CX 380 (and again, I'm giving the 'CX will order 380' the benefit of
27 Yyz717 : Yes. I agree completely. Even if CX had the behemoth on order. Which they don't.
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