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What Will The 747 Adv. Be Like?  
User currently offlineFubar37 From Canada, joined May 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14723 times:

Just wondering what the 747 Adv. will be like. I don't know much about the proposed aircraft. What will be different?

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2488 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14714 times:

won't have blended winglets, will have big engines (like the 777 GE's) and will be longer, from inside it will have an aviation upgrade and 787 Interior style... it will also fly further and , ofcourse, more fuell saving...

EDIT: and if the 747adv get's launched, they will first produce the 747advF and then look if a passenger model is still attractive enought to build...

[Edited 2005-05-25 16:42:59]

User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14692 times:

A mere 5 more rows would allow 50 more passengers and 12.5% better economics... obvious fact of the day.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14691 times:

It will be longer than the current B-744. There may be some use of composits. It will use raked wingtips, not the winglets on the B-744. The B-747-ADVF and passenger model B-747-ADV may use the same wing. I believe it will use the B-787 engines, too.

User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2488 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

just found this:


http://www.boeing.com/randy/pdf/747AdvCard.pdf

with pictures included. Boeing claims it will beat the A380, however i don't know in wich way they mean...


this gives you a better idea on how much bigger it is , since the extansions are darkned : http://www.boeing.com/randy/images/747a01_lg.jpg

[Edited 2005-05-25 16:50:44]

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3506 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14601 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 4):
just found this:


http://www.boeing.com/randy/pdf/747AdvCard.pdf

with pictures included. Boeing claims it will beat the A380, however i don't know in wich way they mean...

Cheap PR BS. They haven't designed it yet but they know it will fly cheaper than A380 (which precise economics is not known as well). Give me a break.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14570 times:

Estimation maybe?????????? I suppose they did some calculations

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3506 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14532 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 6):
Estimation maybe??????????

Estimation and comparison between unknown and unknown.  yawn 


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8151 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14524 times:

Quoting Fubar37 (Thread starter):
Just wondering what the 747 Adv. will be like.

http://www.bestpaperairplanes.com/duck1.html


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14524 times:

http://www.boeing.com/randy/images/747a01_lg.jpg

Changes vs 747-400 include:

Raked wingtips

11.7ft fuselage extension

Higher takeoff weight

32 more seats

Derivative 787 engines.

Here is a side-by-side against the current 747-400ER



-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5728 posts, RR: 48
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14451 times:

Wow, 4,970 mile for the 747ADV vs 8,000 for the 744ER, is that right? That doesn't sound good to me!


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14437 times:

Boeing claims a 19% fuel effeciency, for the B-747-ADV, over the A-380.  bigthumbsup 

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14412 times:

Sorry, but maybe it's just because I'm really tired right now and I can't see straight. But those specs between the 744ER and 747ADV somehow just don't make sense to me. Am I missing something or is my brain alreay sleeping?
(I just got off night shift...  tired  )

[Edited 2005-05-25 17:31:56]


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14393 times:

Interesting to see it weighs quite a bit more than the -400ER.

User currently offlineZoom1018 From Vietnam, joined May 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14386 times:

I do not think Boeing would produce a 747ADV with less range.. something wrong there (in the chart)

User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14373 times:

ACDC8 agree

Where did those figures come from and is that range of 4,970 really right? If so 747RET (retard) would be a more appropriate designation



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14353 times:

Definitely not a warmed over 747.

It will be a strong competitor despite the use of say more then 10 year old technology  Wink

It think it can fill the gab between 350-400 seat 773 & 346 and the 500-550 seat 388's. Hopefully a Combi will be available too.


User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5728 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14339 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
It will be a strong competitor despite the use of say more then 10 year old technology

What in the hell are you talking about? It's using advanced technology developed for the 787!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2488 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14331 times:

It think it can fill the gab between 350-400 seat 773 & 346 and the 500-550 seat 388's. Hopefully a Combi will be available too.


your afraid you won't see it at AMS otherwise?  Wink


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14324 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
It's using advanced technology developed for the 787!

Why won't it be FBW then?


User currently offlineZoom1018 From Vietnam, joined May 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14309 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
It will be a strong competitor despite the use of say more then 10 year old technology

Hah... interesting comment! please say the right things with the right information hehe


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14269 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
Wow, 4,970 mile for the 747ADV vs 8,000 for the 744ER, is that right? That doesn't sound good to me!



Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 14):
I do not think Boeing would produce a 747ADV with less range.. something wrong there (in the chart)

Well, according to this document, the range of the 747Adv is to be 8000nm, so looks like the chart had a typo.

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3506 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14258 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
Boeing claims a 19% fuel efficiency, for the B-747-ADV, over the A-380.

19% lower trip cost which may be true but considering it has 25% less seats does not impress really.


User currently offlineZoom1018 From Vietnam, joined May 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14243 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
19% lower trip cost which may be true but considering it has 25% less seats does not impress really.

It is no use if you do not have enough demand (to fill the 25% extra seats) anyways


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3506 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14199 times:

Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 23):
Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
19% lower trip cost which may be true but considering it has 25% less seats does not impress really.

It is no use if you do not have enough demand (to fill the 25% extra seats) anyways

Sure. But manipulation is clear. To compare profitability of two planes you need to take both costs and revenues not just the costs. These aircraft are for different markets - you don't compare ERJ with 737 do you?


25 Widebodyphotog : Sorry folks had to correct some info in the table: Crrections Note: range correction Lower holds capacity Cruise speeds Sorry for the goof up. -widebo
26 Zoom1018 : What if the comparison is based on individuals? I mean, for example, they consider A380 with 550 pax and 747adv with 450 and with all the costs taken
27 Thunderbird1 : I thought it was more different from the -400ER than the chart seems to indicate. It's a cool looking airplane, though, that's for sure. Let's hope Bo
28 Post contains images Danny : That would be fantastic but this is not the case. It would have to beat 787 completely then. That is why I said initially that this document is PR BS
29 Zoom1018 : It could hehehe because they are both for different markets hehehe (sorry, I am just interested in aviation and do not know much about technical thing
30 Fubar37 : Why bother with it at all. it seems silly to me to spend the dollars developing this kind of aircraft to only seat a few more people. Yes Yes i know a
31 Zoom1018 : Well, it is a matter of replacing old ones with new ones and of course the new ones must be better... hence such an aircraft
32 CHRISBA777ER : Gotta say - she's a cracking looking aeroplane - thats a seriously good looking jet!
33 Glom : Because that would require major reworking and because FBW is not the be-all and end-all of aircraft technology. The 787 engines will help but that i
34 MarcoT : Would you pray tell exactly what 'advanced 787 technology' will it use, if ever launched? I mean, apart from the obvious reingeneering with a (bleed
35 Post contains links N60659 : You could probably get some of what you are looking for here. -N60659
36 Zoom1018 : Thank you N60659 for sharing the information.
37 DfwRevolution : Not in every regard. Materials technology will be, at best, late 1990s. The bulk of economic improvements are coming from (1) stretch, (2) new engine
38 Post contains images Gary2880 : and from another thread so how can boeing know this? i dont think its something to give the thumbs up and smile about do you, that wouldnt be very fa
39 F14D4ever : Not likely. The GE90 can produce as little as 77k pounds thrust, but not as economically as needed for this application. As shown in the graphic prov
40 Glom : Trip costs, eh? How do the seat-mile costs compare?
41 Ikramerica : Some technologies it will likely use from 777 and/or 787: Higher pressure cabin Higher humidity cabin No-Bleed air engines Newer wing design Raked Win
42 Gigneil : The 744ER's range is not 8000nm. The 747ADVs is. No, it isn't. Only engines. Won't be anywhere close to that big. Nope. That requires a composite fus
43 Ikramerica : seems you have all the answers for this secret plane, tell us more please... why would higher pressure require a composite fuselage rather than just a
44 ComeAndGo : It's going to look better than the 744 and it's going to have a bowling alley and jacuzzi like the A380.
45 ComeAndGo : Why are the seating numbers always wrong at the manufacturers? The first class on the 744 is not 23 but 14. Why do we always get inflated numbers?
46 Avek00 : Exactly. The 744ADV allows most current 744 operators to engage in INCREMENTAL capacity growth under existing business models versus moving into an e
47 AA777 : ....if it is using engines from the 787 that are all BLEEDLESS.... why are u saying that the 747ADV engines arent going to be bleedless? .... read yo
48 BoeingBus : You are all wrong... or a half right.... the 747Adv is going to use a bleed version of the GenX family, which will be similar to what GE will do to t
49 Zvezda : For the B747 to have 6000' cabin altitude would require not only strengthening that would add weight, but new air systems that would be expensive to
50 Post contains links and images Widebodyphotog : Interesting... Have not heard that either engine manufacturer has made commitments to produce engines for 747ADV or A350. Would you have a source for
51 DfwRevolution : I was opperating under the impression that the GeNX powerplant was on the 787, had exclusive availability on the 747-Adv, and already available on th
52 Zvezda : That was my understanding also. BTW, does anyone know the exterior cross-sectional height of the B747 fuselage at the hump? About 300 inches?
53 Widebodyphotog : 309 inches -widebodyphotog
54 Post contains images Iwok : Actually, according to the brochure, it carries 19% less passengers. (1-450/550) = 18% Wow, I really hope they build this bugger. With all the sky-bu
55 Freedom4all : looks great in those dream liner colors, i think it would be great if they launch it soon, hopfully at paris. there should be a market for a pax veris
56 GQfluffy : Just because it looks good, doesn't mean it will be good. I do agree with you though, and hope she will be launched... Man, am I behind on the times.
57 PlaneSmart : A series of lines and artists impressions on computer screens at B, daydreams of a.netters, and $ signs at Singapore, Virgin and Emirates (use to bea
58 ZRH : The numbers of manufacturers are only propositions. It is only up to the airline to decide how many seats they want to put in each class (of course o
59 Tockeyhockey : the chart says that range improves from 7,670 nm to 8,000 nm. am i missing something here?
60 EnviroTO : The chart changed obviously.
61 Post contains images Theredbaron : Amusing that even the Airbus Naysayers do not read their own posts of less than 4 weeks ago!!! If my memory serves well the main argument was that Hub
62 Post contains links N60659 : Not long ago, on another thread, B2707SST was kind enough to point me to a link that should answer this and any other questions you may have: http://
63 Widebodyphotog : Actually it is quite easy to see how 747ADV would have a much lower trip cost than A380. At current the A380 burns fuel at a 20% greater rate than the
64 BoeingBus : Boeing never said it was dead market... it basically said that its a small segment and not worth the investment and risk. Boeing could have easily co
65 Post contains images FlyAUA : (This thread is too long to read so I will just respond hoping nobody made a similar remark) It will look like the A380, except: 1) It will have rake
66 B744F : Boeing is building the adv to get the b744 replacement market, as well as the 742/4F replacement market. They are not reinventing the wheel but they w
67 Gigneil : The 744ER features aerodynamic improvements and the "trailing-edge wedge", an MD-11 feature that delays the remixture of top and bottom surface airfl
68 Post contains images MarcoT : Thanks, because this even strenghten my point: So, straight from the horse's mouth, a minimum cost stretch. No new wings. Exactly as I said, a reinge
69 Ken777 : The 747 ADV is an interesting plane and I think it will do well over time. Too many times we think the 380 is the answer because of increases in pax t
70 NorCal : If traffic is growing, then the 747A should be needed as well. We have always needed multiple different size planes during the growth of aviation. Wh
71 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Um, they have designed it already. That's how they got those specs. And we all know how far off Boeing is when giving performance estimates. (777-300
72 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : Some food for thought to enhance the debating points... Preliminary 747ADV specifics vs A388: Bold red type represents greatest value in category -wid
73 RJ111 : Seems a very good offering. I think Airbus might regret designing the A380 for a stretch, it's a heavy plane.
74 Boeing7E7 : will have big engines (like the 777 GE's) and will be longer, from inside it will have an aviation upgrade and 787 Interior style... it will also fly
75 Zvezda : Widebodyphotog, your chart indicates the cabin (exterior?) width of the JumboJet is 14.5 inches greater than the interior fuselage width while the Wha
76 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : Zeveda, In point of fact the fuselage thickness of A380 at the sides is very thick. The Fuselage frames of A380 are not of continuous thicknes all aro
77 Ikramerica : cool diagrams and spec comparos guys. thanks.
78 Post contains images LHB727230Adv : Anybody know if the 747ADV will keep the -400's triple-slotted flaps and VC Krugers or use more conventional single or double-slotted flaps and standa
79 DfwRevolution : Wow, the 747-Adv isn't nearly as shabby as I was expecting. One stunning comparison was the OEW/Max Payload between the two aircraft. The A388 can li
80 Boeing7E7 : Wow, the 747-Adv isn't nearly as shabby as I was expecting. One stunning comparison was the OEW/Max Payload between the two aircraft. The A388 can lif
81 Zvezda : One can get a good first-order approximation of effeciency by looking at payload/OEW. For the WhaleJet, this ratio is just under 0.3 but for the Jumbo
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