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TAM To Order 20 A320s  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

With JJs IPO coming soon, they are expecting to raise enough money to place an order with Airbus for an additional 20 A320s to be delivered until 2010 (no word on when deliveries are expected to begin).

JJ's current fleet has 33 aircraft of the type with another 10 on order which are expected to begin deliveries next year, raising the total (as soon as the order is officially placed) to 30 A320s on order.

At the same time, JJ is retiring all of their 21 F-100s by the end of 2008. There is talk about substituting the F-100s with more modern aircraft of the same class or not (TAM has an MOI with Embraer for a few years now), but "market conditions permitting only."

Additionally, CCS and LHR are on JJ's "wish list," but that's all the info available as of now about these two new potential destinations.

Cheers,
PPVRA

[Edited 2005-05-25 19:32:54]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Great to hear TAM expanding.

Any word if they will start more services within South America like LIM?

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Good news for TAM, any news on TAM expanding to N. America and Europe?

When are there 332's comming back from EY?

Rob!


User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Great news for TAM!  Smile Bye bye, Varig.  Sad

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 4740 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting KL808 (Reply 1):
Any word if they will start more services within South America like LIM?

TAM plans include increase service to SCL and EZE, expand to LIM and in the near future CCS. At Brazilian business magazine "Exame" they assume TAM nowadays are more carefully in choosing their international routes.

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Good news for TAM, any news on TAM expanding to N. America and Europe?

When are there 332's comming back from EY?

TAM probably runs GRU-JFK in October/05 and will receive back at least 2 A332 (they have 4 in wet-lease). For the other two, they can in the future operates GIG-MIA as MIA is one of their top destinations and AA has just finish the seasonal AA980 GIG-MIA, reducing flights Rio to Miami from 12 to 7 per week. It can stop once weekly at FOR.
For Europe, i think it depends on the alliance they join. MXP could be an option as Italy-Brazil flights keeps high loads the entire year. LIS, FRA and CDG are well served (FRA and LIS are important Star Hubs). MAD could be another option (secondary).

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
When are there 332's comming back from EY?

Wasn´t to Ek that they were leased??



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 4601 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 1):
Any word if they will start more services within South America like LIM?



Quoting KL808 (Reply 1):
Good news for TAM, any news on TAM expanding to N. America and Europe?

TAM's future expansion:

- Expansion of over 30% in domestic flights in March/05 alone;
- Second daily flight to CDG starting June/05;
- SCL: replace A320 for the A330 as of June/05, second daily flight in 2006;
- JFK-GRU due to start October/05;
- GIG-MIA or BSB-MAO-MIA with the A330 (no decision)
- ASU-GRU-CCS with the A319 (no decision);
- GRU-LIM with the A320 (no decision);

There are rumours that TAM is negotiating membership in OW. TAM has a longstanding cooperation with AA (apart from LAN, TAM is the only AA partner in South America!). AF-JJ cooperation has been deterioration which indicates that TAM is closer to OW as ever before.

If TAM joins OW, you may expect destinations such as MAD to be served. In the specific case of LHR, since no slots are available, I think JJ would operate under BA codeshare (BA currenty operates daily BA B747 to GRU). BA would then terminate its flight in GRU and JJ could distribute pax in Brazil, and deep South America.

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 5):
Wasn´t to Ek that they were leased??

Yes, they were leased (wet lease) to EK.

Rgs,


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 4564 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
GIG-MIA or BSB-MAO-MIA with the A330 (no decision)

JJ would operate an A330 BSB-MAO-MIA and not an A320 like before?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
There are rumours that TAM is negotiating membership in OW.

Do you know how advanced the negotiations are purported to be? Could we perhaps see TAM becoming the tenth oneworld member (after MALEV) sometime in 2005-2006?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
If TAM joins OW, you may expect destinations such as MAD to be served.

I think JJ would be extremely successful in MAD, especially with IB feed.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
I think JJ would operate under BA codeshare (BA currenty operates daily BA B747 to GRU). BA would then terminate its flight in GRU and JJ could distribute pax in Brazil, and deep South America.

I agree. BA would dump all its non-GRU Brazil-bound passengers onto JJ internal Brazilian flights at GRU. That makes good economic sense.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
JJ would operate an A330 BSB-MAO-MIA and not an A320 like before?

You are correct. If JJ decides for BSB-MAO-MIA (as before) it would operate with the A320. However, if the decision is to boost GIG, with GIG-MIA then JJ would use the A330.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Do you know how advanced the negotiations are purported to be? Could we perhaps see TAM becoming the tenth oneworld member (after MALEV) sometime in 2005-2006?

With the break down of JJ-AF cooperation, JJ very soon will no be able to rely on AF onward feed in CDG. JJ was in a very comfortable position with mulit-partneships accross alliances. But now time has come for a decision, and it all indicates it will be OW. I would say we could expect JJ in OW in early 06.

I also assume that JJ twice daily flights to CDG could become unsustainable without AF cooperation. Probably JJ will keep one daily and shift one to MAD.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
I think JJ would be extremely successful in MAD, especially with IB feed.

And IB already has a strong presence in Brazil with daily GRU and GIG will be increased from 4 x week to daily as of November/05.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
I agree. BA would dump all its non-GRU Brazil-bound passengers onto JJ internal Brazilian flights at GRU. That makes good economic sense.

Correct, BA-operated, codeshared with JJ, would be a flight with galactic yields/load. The daily B747 could be too small, so BA would have to find a way to find a slot for JJ in LHR (and of course, RG would be kicked out of LHR) or maybe operate a 3/4 x week LHR-GIG.

Rgs,


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

I'd expect this "Magic Red Carpet" airline to also order (in due time) the A350.


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8430 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4485 times:
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An extra 20 320's would be a nice boost for Airbus, given Boeings recent nuber of orders, that said, Airbus are likely waiting for the Paris air show to steal the thunder.

Regarding JJ and OW, it would be a good move on their part and to for the existing OW partners.

OW is weak in south america, JJ would provide a huge boost to the OW network and passenger numbers.

Fingers crossed JJ join.

Rgds

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 10):
OW is weak in south america, JJ would provide a huge boost to the OW network and passenger numbers

Indeed, JJ is the second biggest airline in Latin America (also has the second biggest FF programme), and could be the "entrance door" of OW in Brazil. As a result, LAN would take care of West South America (Chile+Andean Countries) and JJ of East South America (i.e. Brazil+Argentina).

Btw, this month JJ broke its record of pax transported on a single day: on 20 May TAM carried 60,000 pax.

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-05-25 23:06:10]

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 10):
OW is weak in south america

I don't know if I'd call them "weak." AA alone can get OW pax to just about every major business destination on the continent, and that's before you even count LA.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8430 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4431 times:
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Commavia, yes you are correct, I however am thinking more for flying within south america rather than travelling via a OW hub such as MIA.

JJ together with LA would offer a far more extensive network within south america than they have at this current time with just LA and flights from the USA with AA.

Rgds

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 13):
JJ together with LA would offer a far more extensive network within south america than they have at this current time with just LA and flights from the USA with AA.

That's true -- you're right -- I think the combo of the LA network focused on the west coast of South America and the TAM with its colossal domestic network would be unstoppable on the continent. Add in AA, the largest outside airline in South America, and IB, the second largest outside airline, and you have a pretty sizeable alliance juggernaut.


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Correct, BA-operated, codeshared with JJ, would be a flight with galactic yields/load. The daily B747 could be too small

It would certainly be interesting, but I sincerely believe that before assuming the task of looking for a slot for JJ, BA would faster operate the second daily flight to Sao Paulo themselves.

...or who knows, limiting capacity initially by keeping the sole daily 747-400 to GRU unchanged could also well work as guarrantee for constant healthy yield performance.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
and of course, RG would be kicked out of LHR

Why? A bit of explanation from your part would be much appreciated Hardi.





SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

JJ(TAM), has been rumored to be looking at more gateways in the United States. It would make sense. They could operate a few turns in Northern Brasil and still be able to work a flight to Southern Florida within the same day! More so TAM could make a profit, if it alligned itself for Charters to and from Brasil to places such as Orlando(ex AA, RG, TR), Ft. Lauderdale, and Las Vegas.

In addition, with the current shape of VARIG, it would be to the best interest of TAM to take a lead while it can. It is possible to see TAM also expand more into Central America as well!


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
Yes, they were leased (wet lease) to EK.



Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 5):
Wasn´t to Ek that they were leased??

They were leased to UAE carrier Etihad!

cn 232:

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Photo © Dominic Nortney



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Photo © PASSET Laurent



All of EK's 332's are RR powered!

Rob!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 15):
It would certainly be interesting, but I sincerely believe that before assuming the task of looking for a slot for JJ, BA would faster operate the second daily flight to Sao Paulo themselves

SOUTH, I understand you point, but I really cant see BA operating twice daily to GRU. South America is not BA's market priority. I would agree, however, with your statement that a consolidate BA (codeshare JJ) daily B747 terminating in GRU could perhaps handle the task. As is the case in other South American destinations, pax would then be heavily funneled through MAD with IB/JJ (and you can expect JJ to operate to MAD as a consequence). [Just for the records, JJ already has a established cooperation with IB on GRU-ASU and GRU-GIG].

And I would go even further, with a possible membership of JJ in OW, maybe IB/JJ could explore routes such as Northeast Brazil to MAD (same way as TAP/RG are currently doing via LIS).

Quoting Commavia (Reply 14):
I think the combo of the LA network focused on the west coast of South America and the TAM with its colossal domestic network would be unstoppable on the continent. Add in AA, the largest outside airline in South America, and IB, the second largest outside airline, and you have a pretty sizeable alliance juggernaut

If this scenario is materialised, OW will become by far the dominant alliance in South America. Star and Sky better be watchful...

Rgs,


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 4354 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 17):
They were leased to UAE carrier Etihad!

Correct. Sorry for the mistake. It was a wet lease (including pilots, crew, etc).


User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Any chance KLM/AF wants those F100's or are they only looking for F70's?

KL911



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

I get your point Hardi. However, you forgot to specify as to why would RG be kicked out of LHR and limited to service from GIG, as you mentioned earlier.




SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
- GIG-MIA or BSB-MAO-MIA with the A330 (no decision)



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
JJ would operate an A330 BSB-MAO-MIA and not an A320 like before?

You are correct. If JJ decides for BSB-MAO-MIA (as before) it would operate with the A320. However, if the decision is to boost GIG, with GIG-MIA then JJ would use the A330.

I don't think there is anything solid on that, just speculation that the service will return (and most probably on a A320).

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 15):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
and of course, RG would be kicked out of LHR

Why? A bit of explanation from your part would be much appreciated Hardi.

Why and how?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
JJ(TAM), has been rumored to be looking at more gateways in the United States. It would make sense.

Indeed, RG is very strong in Europe (RG international is focused in Europe, their main priority market abroad)

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
If this scenario is materialised, OW will become by far the dominant alliance in South America. Star and Sky better be watchful...

I bet AR would sign an agreement with RG and/or join STAR in this scenario.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 20):
Any chance KLM/AF wants those F100's or are they only looking for F70's?

I believe they took delivery of one Ex-TAM F-100 recently.

Cheers,
PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
I also assume that JJ twice daily flights to CDG could become unsustainable without AF cooperation. Probably JJ will keep one daily and shift one to MAD.

Hardi,
I think JJ on the last months arrange agreements in a way to conserve demand for its 2 daily GRU-CDG. Japan and Arabian region are now covered with third party agreements. AF only allows Tam pax to connect into France and more than 70% of its pax goes to Paris. I supose they will keep the 2 flights (as AF becoming a Gol partner probably can boost GIG flights to CDG as Gol does not keep so many flights in GRU which can be used as connections)
to CDG or a kind of combination like GRU-MAD-CDG or CDG-MAD.
Paris market is also knowed by JJ and they obtain an important share (about 45% of GRU market) as well as per the actual conditions of France/Brazil agreement there are no way to increase flights. If Tam reduces its flights probably AF will request to increase their flights using Tam's dormant slots.
What do you think ?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
JJ(TAM), has been rumored to be looking at more gateways in the United States. It would make sense. They could operate a few turns in Northern Brasil and still be able to work a flight to Southern Florida within the same day! More so TAM could make a profit, if it alligned itself for Charters to and from Brasil to places such as Orlando(ex AA, RG, TR), Ft. Lauderdale, and Las Vegas.

It makes a lot of sense since Brazil-USA flights are usually quite full with high yields even in biz. GIG needs more flights, Northeast as you state needs more flights, and TAM is the only one player at this time that can increase flights to the US (In fact RG will re-introduce the GIG-MIA 3 times per week in july but its seasonal and RG every time shows it does not know anymore how to increase int'l flights). With the strong AA partnership JJ could start a lot of flights from NO/NE as well as a new GIG-MIA.
Its possible the A320 fly FOR-MIA nonstop ?

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
I bet AR would sign an agreement with RG and/or join STAR in this scenario.

AR may be tempted to SkyTeam just yet ... either way, though, in the eventuality that JJ were to join OW (and maybe ever perhaps if they didn't join OW) Star and SkyTeam are going to have be playing some serious catch up to be able to reach the longhaul and internal network of OW in South America.


25 SOUTHAMERICA : In any case, I believe the A319 or even a larger wide-bodied counterpart would be far more indicated. Extreme hot conditions, high cargo demand and e
26 Post contains images PM : Now can they do something about the dullest colour scheme in the air?
27 Incitatus : Any speculation on JJ's post-IPO market value compared to GOL's?? I bet JJ's market value will not be as high. Gol will likely be Brazil's largest dom
28 LipeGIG : You're right. JJ market value accounts onluy about 45% of G3 market value. This week G3 market value is about R$ 6.9 billion (about USD 2.8 billion).
29 Post contains images Hardiwv : Felipe: once again, thank you very much for the very informative post. I have to agree that TAM's colour scheme is really uninspired. Let's see what
30 Erikwilliam : For a long time now, all they do is change the tail colour and detail, now it´s green/yellow, ans a slight body change, if so.... G3 needs a FF prog
31 Speedbird128 : Etihad used to have two A332's on lease from TAM - they now only have 1 left. They were: PT-MVA -> A6-EYX PT-MVB -> A6-EYY A6-EYY is already back wit
32 Allessandro : It a good sign that TAM is fully back in business and talking about expanding, I can recall times when it was different (althought even then they were
33 Marambio : Indeed, but that's due to Brazil immense size. TAM's international network is still small, only serving Buenos Aires, Miami and Paris non-stop from S
34 PPVRA : Spanair is a Star Alliance member (AR won't lose a partner in Spain). Although I realize SkyTeam is also a good option for AR on the international sc
35 Erikwilliam : THey´r grwong fast and hard. THeir presence in GRU is not yet that good, but´ll be better in time. For SKY it might be a good thing to have a prese
36 PPVRA : I would say they are probably not, but SKY needs a partner and they must be making really good proposals to attract GOL. I doubt GOL will ever have a
37 MAH4546 : One starting isn't dependent on the other not starting. They are both independent decissions. There has also been some light talk that MIA-GIG will b
38 Post contains images Marambio : Maybe. But CDG-EZE is a big money-maker for AF, especially in Business and First. Although they are expanding internationally, still GOL is mainly an
39 LipeGIG : Agree. But GIG market is still needing more flights to MIA. RG, JJ and AA flights from GRU takes at least 20% of passangers from GIG/Rio de Janeiro a
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