Starrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1081 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5990 times:
I find myself in agreement with Leskova-
While this sounds great, is this anything more than PR spin? For the third huge 737 order of the year after Ryanair and China, it's great news but is it actaully going to happen? Primaris booked 20 787's and some 737's last summer and I don't recall seeing that order ever hit the books either.
I could announce intentions to buy 60 737's too, but it doens't mean I'd be able to find the financing to do so.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6180 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5835 times:
While this sounds great, is this anything more than PR spin?
Here's the answer...
"Lion Air, a low-cost Indonesian airline that hopes to expand operations in Southeast Asia, will sign a preliminary agreement with Boeing in Washington, D.C., for up to 60 of its 737s, according to people familiar with the deal.
Deliveries would begin next year once a firm contract is negotiated.
They're just booking the delivery slots... No commitment... This could be a move by Lion to boost up it's credibility to use this preliminary agreement to get the funding it needs... "We've booked the slots but now we need the money to pay for the planes"... then play on investors' emotions... A typical Indonesian game...
In the words of fellow member HB-IWC, "It's not worth the paper it is written on."
Ironically the President of Indonesia flew to the US on Garuda (Lion's main enemy) on an A330 (Boeing's rival)... Comical...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Starrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1081 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5815 times:
100 orders? What did I miss?
I am equally distrustful of the A350 order. I will be surprised if the AWA/US frankenairline see one of those widebodies. I would be just as dubious of a doctor who proposed grafting healthy parts onto a corpse. Especially when the donor looks to have a better chance of surviving than the recipient.
Wingman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined May 1999, 1837 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4036 times:
I'm really starting to think Boeing might be smart to become the first Fortune 50 company ever to eliminate the CEO position. They've been on a roll without anyone at the top hampering the sales and finance guys.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6180 posts, RR: 74 Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2977 times:
The Indonesian President normally travels on a GA A330 for long haul... The comment was not about why doesn't the president fly on a Lion aircraft (which will probably result in our Vice-President being our President before the end of the trip), but it's throwing a pun... The President of Indonesia flying on a Garuda Airbus to see a Lion Boeing deal... In Indonesia, the Garuda v Lion war is waaaay more interesting than the Airbus v Boeing wars...
"The spokesman gave no more details on the financing plan for privately owned Lion Air, which has made inroads into the local market with competitive ticket fares and flights to popular Indonesian destinations.
Alhabsi also declined to say who owned the airline, except that it was Indonesian."
Well... as far as I know, no local financiers will be mad enough to finance such an order... Lion has a reputation of not paying their obligations! (ask maintenance guys and hotels for crew stays!)... Secondly, their financing requests were rejected in the past (20 A320 financing were rejected 2 years ago).
Secondly, who owns the airline? This is a public mystery... I can post it here but I'll be sued immediately
"Lion's current fleet comprised 38 aircraft, Alhabsi said, adding that around half of those were leased."
On the last count we made early this month, their fleet consists of 27 aircraft.
"Following the deal, Lion Air might launch an initial public offering of its shares either next year or in 2007, he added."
Now they've secured the delivery slots... I would not be surprised if...
1. Lion can't get the financing, and then goes to the investors and say... "We've secured the delivery slots with struggle and perseverence, but those damn foreigners won't give us financing... Please help us..." *Yes they've done something like this before*.
2. If #1 fails, they'll go and use the IPO to finance the deal... BUT, knowing how hyped up Lion's image is amongst the novice investors, those people will flock to buy Lion shares without even noticing big chunks of information missing from the prospectus... then after the IPO... they won't get the aircraft citing... "it's too late..." or "we're not getting support we need from (insert black sheep here)..."
Sounds unlikely? They've done it before... If they blame a worn out tyre bursting upon landing as "We're convinced the airport has put nails or sharp objects on the runway" on public record and through the mouth of Alhabsi it's PR man who's now having his ego blown with CNN asking him questions about this order... What's stopping them from making crazier comments in the future?
Seriously, O'Leary should learn from this guy!
Good Luck Boeing... U're gonna need it!
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 11 Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2618 times:
In the first place, why does Lion Air needs the range and capacity of the 737-900X? Are they being so overambitious ordering such an advanced aircraft ? How many airports in Indonesian has the runway for this planes ? There are more questions that I want to ask but I guess Lion Air has figured out already to make such a bold order. Anyway, there had already been rumours linking them to widebodies like the B777 and B747-400.They need to sort out their domestic problems first which I have doubt they have before discussing about flying long haul. You can refer to the earlier topic for more information on this airline thanks to Mandala499 and HB-IWC for a very clear view on this topic.
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 23): Secondly, who owns the airline? This is a public mystery... I can post it here but I'll be sued immediately
My exact thoughts, I had discussions with Mandala499 and some of my Indonesian friends and we had a long discussion over Lion Airlines. It's a mystery where they get the funds.
I have doubts about Lion Airlines and won't believe until I see the aircraft in Lion Airlines colours .
Airliners is the wings of my life.
25 Lutfi: Eddie Tansil...? (a famous Indonesian, last heard of in Xiamen)
26 HB-IWC: All of the news coverage I have read over the past day has been riddled with inaccuracies, half-truths and outright lies. Lion Air is neither operatin
27 777ER: Primaris booked 20 787's and some 737's last summer and I don't recall seeing that order ever hit the books either. Primaris web-site shows their rout
28 Mandala499: HB-IWC... Why have this news made it? Simple... No Indonesian airline have been this bold... whether the order is a complete PR stunt or not the media