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TED Expansion..  
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6747 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5442 times:

New Service announcement..

Effective September 7, 2005, Ted will offer roundtrip service between San Francisco and Ontario, California, twice daily. This service is brand new to United, and does not represent a conversion of an existing mainline route to Ted.

-- Also effective September 7, 2005, the following roundtrip service will
be available on Ted, unless otherwise specified:
Denver to Miami Twice daily
Washington Dulles to Miami Twice daily
Los Angeles to Phoenix Twice daily on Ted,
Four times daily on United Express®


-- Effective October 2005, the following roundtrip service will be
available on Ted:
Chicago O'Hare to San Juan, Puerto Rico Once daily, effective
Oct. 23
Chicago O'Hare to Miami Twice daily, effective
Oct. 31


-- Effective November 15, 2005, the following roundtrip service will be
available on Ted:
Denver to Cancun Once daily
Washington Dulles to Cancun Once daily


-- Effective December 18, 2005, the following roundtrip service will be
available on Ted:
Washington Dulles to San Juan, Puerto Rico Once daily

Ted Expansion - Yahoo


Aiming High and going far..
82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11383 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

I think this is smart on UA's part. They are obviously losing money in these predominantly low-yield markets with mainline anyway, so why not transition them to TED and lose less money. I am a bit surprised about MIA, though. I thought that they had a pretty loyal high-value following here, but I guess that went the way of the GRU/EZE flights.

User currently offlineORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

Speaking of TED and UA's expansion of it, does anybody have an idea as to how TED is doing on their two MDW routes to IAD and DEN?

Anybody flown the service?

ORD2PHL


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

So, it seems that MIA and SJU will be all "Ted" stations. I continue to think that UA should convert all the 319/320 fleet to "Ted" to better meet todays industry. The vast majority of US domestic passengers want simple/low fares, fairly frequent/convenient schedules, and basic good service (on-time flights, clean airplanes/airports, a snack/soda, and friendly staff).

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32567 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

I'm pleasently shocked Miami is going TED, becuase airlines have entirely avoided sending their low-cost affiliates to MIA. Very, very interesting to hear this.

Any hope United has of maybe building back up a strong customer base in Miami, however, is gone. Going TED, the premium passengers they had left are going to AA. Oh well.

[Edited 2005-05-26 15:54:46]


a.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

MAH; a fair amount of more seats in each of the 3 MIA markets, you must be pretty happy...

User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 2):
Speaking of TED and UA's expansion of it, does anybody have an idea as to how TED is doing on their two MDW routes to IAD and DEN?

Expect some changes to IAD svc.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 3):
I continue to think that UA should convert all the 319/320 fleet to "Ted" to better meet todays industry.

I agree, however, the 320 and 319 are also very good planes for the mainline, so expansion of Ted would be hard without new aircraft orders, which wont be a possibility until post-BK...


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

I'm quite surprised myself that Miami is going all-Ted. With my experience of United at Miami (OK, we're talking one flight to Denver, at 6:45 AM) the flights are half-full (if that), but nearly all elites. I can't help but think that this is a gamble on United's part that simply will not pay off.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
I'm quite surprised myself that Miami is going all-Ted. With my experience of United at Miami (OK, we're talking one flight to Denver, at 6:45 AM) the flights are half-full (if that), but nearly all elites. I can't help but think that this is a gamble on United's part that simply will not pay off.

It's not a gamble. Lots of research has been done. United is a business, after all. We've done stupid things in the past, but the guys that made the decision closely evaluated this loss of elites. There aren't enough of them to sustain mainline service. I've seen the profitability numbers. We're a business. Profits should be the primary motive in any decision and it's nice to see that this principle is starting to be respected more and more... lol.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5115 times:

Your overestimating premium revenue these days. It's been in a free fall for years. AA's JFK-LAX average yield has gone from $500 years ago to $300. I would not be suprised at all if this works. These single class configurations have a nicer coach product, they don't subject the flyer to the ego deflation having to walk past the First Class passengers, (don't laugh this is an actual peeve of coach passengers in surveys) and most importantly the customer senses value in the Ted product.

User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 9):
Your overestimating premium revenue these days. It's been in a free fall for years. AA's JFK-LAX average yield has gone from $500 years ago to $300. I would not be suprised at all if this works. These single class configurations have a nicer coach product, they don't subject the flyer to the ego deflation having to walk past the First Class passengers, (don't laugh this is an actual peeve of coach passengers in surveys) and most importantly the customer senses value in the Ted product.

Wow. Spot on. Good writing.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Padcrasher-That's something I didn't think of. Now, what is really surprising, if you ask me, is United keeping those two flights per day to each destination. What if they just went to one TedBus daily to Denver and Northern Virginia, and kept two TedBuses daily to O'Hare.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

i have not flown TED yet, but what makes it so different as a product for passengers than mainline UA?

We know Song is way different than DL with their look (colourful/stylish), attitude (nicer/friendlier) and offerings (nice meals for purchase and PTV).

Apart from offering more seats, what makes TED better that will make elites and other feel OK with the change from mainline to TED? is this an improvment for the customer?


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17275 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

"what makes it so different as a product for passengers than mainline UA"

Different colors on the plane? Oh and no first class...

" what makes TED better that will make elites and other feel OK with the change from mainline to TED?"

Nothing.

"is this an improvment for the customer?"

Exactly the opposite.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRamprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

It's about time they decide to fly ONT-SFO route again. I have no clue why they dumped that route years ago. I'm also glad to see they are going to fly non RJ's on the LAX-PHX run. I hope TED takes over all the RJ flights in PHX.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Ramprat-How about putting Ted on the IAD-PHX-TUS-PHX-IAD routes, or at least break those up into a TUS-ORD leg with a CR7 (TUS-ORD has no nonstop or direct service) or a 735 if the CR7 comes up with performance issues (runway length is no issue, but 1249nm at a half-mile up might be for the CR7) and a Ted IAD-PHX-IAD leg? Just food for thought...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 11):
Padcrasher-That's something I didn't think of. Now, what is really surprising, if you ask me, is United keeping those two flights per day to each destination. What if they just went to one TedBus daily to Denver and Northern Virginia, and kept two TedBuses daily to O'Hare.

It's called catchment area. There are still high-yield, business travelers near MIA that will fly out of MIA, despite the lack of F seats. Most business travelers care more about value than the existence of F class. And they'll tend to book closer in, thereby paying the higher fares on Ted. Catchment area. More business travelers near MIA than FLL.



Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 15):
Ramprat-How about putting Ted on the IAD-PHX-TUS-PHX-IAD routes, or at least break those up into a TUS-ORD leg with a CR7 (TUS-ORD has no nonstop or direct service) or a 735 if the CR7 comes up with performance issues (runway length is no issue, but 1249nm at a half-mile up might be for the CR7) and a Ted IAD-PHX-IAD leg? Just food for thought...

Aye carumba. I'll stop addressing your thoughts because: (a) you don'd ask me anyway, and (b) it's obvious you need a reality check! This is a silly question.

[Edited 2005-05-26 17:53:14]

User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4992 times:

As negative as I am about the United Airlines management and they way that things have been run with United Airlines, this is actually a very good move for United Airlines. The thing that I am puzzled about is the virtual loss of mainline service from Miami. Miami, is a very well performing market for many airlines. It will be yet another case of United Airlines, turning over their premium South Florida traffic to American Airlines.

The advent of TED service from LAX-PHX, SFO-ONT would seem to be a direct attack on Southwest Airlines. At last Ontario nearly outnumbered LAX, with the amount of Intra-California traffic offered by Southwest Airlines. In addition LAX-PHX, is an ex Shuttle by United service that always seem to perform well.

San Juan, should be no suprise at all. San Juan, suffers from the same fate as Orlando. To much competition and airfares that are to little. It makes perfect business sense to operate an all economy operation to a market such as San Juan!


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 16):
it's obvious you need a reality check! This is a silly question.

UA744-It's not really that silly to ask why TUS-IAD has direct service on UA (through Phoenix, a non-UA hub, no less), whereas TUS-ORD only has connecting service on UA. Is there that much more traffic from Tucson to Northern Virginia than from Tucson to Chicago?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

I don't know about the specifics of UA's markets but in general since Ted has a limited number of aircraft you put it in where it can do the most good and has the less downside. Leisure markets are high on the list, you really don't want to waste the product in markets where there is no LCC competition. UA may have made the decision that since AA had beaten them in the battle for premium passengers, ORD-MIA, (It is after all an AA hub to hub market) it would be best to go after coach passengers with a better product. Counting on American not to match.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

And of course UA makes things even harder for ATA.

from faremeasure.com

"American Airlines carries the most passengers on this route. If you're looking for the most flexible schedule, you should consider American Airlines.
During the most recent reporting period, American Airlines had 40.2% of the market between Chicago, IL and Miami, FL and passengers paid an average one-way fare of $186.74.


American Trans Air is the low-fare carrier on this route, which means if you're looking for cheap tickets between Chicago, IL and Miami, FL you should check their options.
American Trans Air served 37.54% of the passengers flying between Chicago, IL and Miami, FL during the most recent reporting period, and passengers paid an average of $110.33 one-way.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Note: The Quote Text feature isn't working for me so I've put other's comments in quotes.

"Speaking of TED and UA's expansion of it, does anybody have an idea as to how TED is doing on their two MDW routes to IAD and DEN?"

--I hear the IAD flight has been nearly empty most runs. I'm sure they're looking for better ways to utilize the aircraft. Expect to see Fort Myers next season. I'd like to see a few West Palm Beach flights, too.

"I'm pleasantly shocked Miami is going TED, because airlines have entirely avoided sending their low-cost affiliates to MIA. "

--Fort Lauderdale didn't perform well for Ted and it's down to one flight a day from IAD, partly due to the seasonal drop in demand. Maybe Miami will do better. UA flies tons of Europeans to Florida during the Winter who transfer at the Dulles hub. They're flying on low fares. Ted is a good way to fly them and other leisure flyers.

It seems as if UA is struggling to find ways to utilize Ted equipment during the late Spring to early Fall season when demand for flights to Florida and other sunny climates drops. Maybe they should send Ted to Alaska and Canada during the summer when leisure travel up there peaks.


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Why an A320 on a short hop from San Fran to Ontario? Isn't that a waste?

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4839 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 22):
Why an A320 on a short hop from San Fran to Ontario? Isn't that a waste?

The two biggest factors effecting CASM are 1) High number of seats per flight and 2) High daily utilization rates in the 12hr to 13hr range.

This is most likely a function getting the most out of the aircraft you can. With Song/Jetblue you see more redeye flights, more tag on- routes, rather than parking the aircraft and the crew having a nice layover. Keep it flying till 10PM, back to work at 6AM.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32567 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
I'm quite surprised myself that Miami is going all-Ted. With my experience of United at Miami (OK, we're talking one flight to Denver, at 6:45 AM) the flights are half-full (if that), but nearly all elites. I can't help but think that this is a gamble on United's part that simply will not pay off.

Those Elites are gone now, and have all transfered to American and Delta, the two dominate airlines in the region. With what United has done to their Miami network, there was no reason for them to stay.



a.
25 SHUPirate1 : MAH-You could answer this question better than I could...why is it that United has all-Ted at Fort Lauderdale, and is going to be all-Ted in Miami, ye
26 Commavia : While I definitely think it is smart of UA to cut its losses and put TED in MIA if they are losing money on their mainline flying, it is a bit sad, th
27 SHUPirate1 : Commavia-I'll answer that question...EVERY SINGLE GATE at MIA is common-use. There are no gate leases, even for American...if you don't believe me, ch
28 Commavia : Surely airlines must have preferential rights at specific gates, as I don't think that Delta or VARIG are going to be using the new Terminal D!
29 Post contains images Lightsaber : Wow! Wasn't OAK-ONT the first route that UA abandoned to WN? Having UA come back in on SFO-ONT is them getting their game back! Lightsaber
30 MAH4546 : I have no idea. It could be because PBI just isn't an important market to them, or that there is strong F demand to PBI (which is the case, though I
31 SHUPirate1 : Commavia-They don't. However, they don't have any counter space over there, as all of their counter space is at Concourse H. Needless to say, no airli
32 Post contains links Xkorpyoh : Are you talking about concourse J?!?! it is looking awesome!!.. it is not a terminal, but looks like it. http://www.pbase.com/airlinerphotos/airports
33 Jamake1 : Back on topic... I am pleased to see Ted entering the SFO-ONT market. This market was discontinued by United Shuttle after 9/11 and I was surprised th
34 SHUPirate1 : Even more back on topic, I'm still confused as to why United bothers to fly that flight between Tucson and Phoenix, and then Phoenix and Northern Virg
35 FLAIRPORT : me too. You know, the number of elites lost (and the ones who stayed are going to stay. You can get economy plus to IAD or ORD and then first from th
36 SHUPirate1 : Per Miami International Airport's Competition Plan, which explicitly states that every single gate is common use.
37 DLKAPA : That would be a bad idea. Not only would they lose a hell of alot of elite customers, customers that have come back consistantly because they like th
38 Galapagapop : How do they lose less? Same ground contracts, Same crew, Same planes, Lower Prices? So where are they gaining on TED? Is the LF higher? If in the hig
39 Post contains links Mariner : Despite the reports of great loads on Ted, here is an odd little snippet from the Chicago Tribune, United's home town paper: http://www.chicagotribune
40 UA744Flagship : Mariner. The Tribune is reporting erroneously. I have a look at the Ted loads every week and they are undeniably strong systemwide. You can do some le
41 WeAreUnited : United flies TUS-ORD in the winter (high demand) time twice daily. I hear that the PHX-TUS flight is to overnight the A/C in TUS at cheaper costs. I
42 Mariner : I never have 100% faith in what I read - where did that come from? However, while it is entirely possible that the Tribune is wrong, this is the firs
43 Commavia : Don't shoot the messenger. My opinion on these boards has always been that TED is not a financial success -- maybe a market and load factor success,
44 UA744Flagship : Yes, it is. United's system passenger load factor: 79.2% Ted (~15% of United's 2004 capacity): greater than 84% That is public information, available
45 UA744Flagship : This is an idiotic assumption that holds no water. So you're saying jetBlue is wrong having the *identical* capacity on an A320, also having that fed
46 Mariner : Sorry, but that is total bs. How many times does one have to repeat the matra that one wants United to survive, one wants to see it do well. In a war
47 UA744Flagship : This written statement implies that people are still puzzled despite the countless other information out there saying loads are strong, traffic is go
48 AussieItaliano : All those extra seats mean extra revenue if they are filled. That would more than offset the minimal cost of having a fourth FA.
49 Post contains links Mariner : You must have a spectacular memory, because I can;t recall making a post about United for several months. However, if you would like to check the arc
50 Galapagapop : Oh really? cramming in a few rows of extra Y and Y+ seats on low yield routes makes up for the F seats that were lost that produce higher yields no m
51 Padcrasher : Jetblue out yielded American with F class and MRTC in the JFK-LGB and JFK-ONT markets. Not only that they had a higher load factor. So it can be done.
52 Kahala777 : Please.... It is around that same distance as: ORD-MSP, ORD-IND, ORD-DTW, ORD-STL, ORD-OMA, ORD-DSM, DEN-PHX, DEN-DSM, DEN-SLC, DEN-ABQ, DEN-OMA, LAX
53 Bushpilot : Would be nice to have Ted fly SFO-ANC at least seasonaly. There is not a direct flight from the Bay area to ANC, In the summer they could easily capit
54 UA744Flagship : Mariner: notice how I quoted 2004 annual results. So you still haven't addressed the facts I gave for FY 2004 that showed system LF @ 79.2% and Ted LF
55 B744F : So United is losing money Kahala??? Gee I wonder why. Couldn't that be part of the problem?
56 MAH4546 : United offers daily SFO-ANC service during the summer months.
57 Mariner : I don't know what your bug is. I quoted April 2005 mainline to be fair to United - Ted was not in full swing in 2004, the 2004 numbers are skewed by t
58 AussieItaliano : It's good to hear this. Despite the opinions of the armchair CEO's on a.net, I don't think UA would be expanding TED if it were a money loser or if U
59 Galapagapop : Yet they are still losing money. Ted can be praised for making the losses less for UA(but UA doesn't release seperate numbers so maybe its worse or b
60 Cleared2Land4 : Is there any talk of a flight for RNO-ORD? or RNO-IAD Thanks (^_^)
61 UA744Flagship : Mariner, you just have a problem with the facts is all. I became anonymous on here only recently, after starting work for United. Take that for what i
62 Kahala777 : No, when an airline augments its aircraft size it in either case is a move for the better. United Airlines, sees the potential to make money on certa
63 UA744Flagship : Thank you. This is what Tilton has been saying all along, and despite what others say, this is a business plan. Now there still isn't a Plan of Reorg
64 JC5280 : Show me just one source for this stat, and I will believe you. Until then, I think you are speculating. This is the biggest load of crap I have ever
65 Mariner : I have no problem with facts whatsoever. That is not the point. The point is that until facts are published they can be anything. I do have a problem
66 UA744Flagship : What's the use of an internet discussion board if you can't argue or otherwise point out the frailties of other people's points? lol... Well, there i
67 Post contains images Mariner : Ah, if it were only simple frailty. Perhaps I won't avoid the aggression, after all. Please show me where - in what post - I said that I believed the
68 Commavia : I agree. This is what it appears UA is moving towards. In the next few years, if things keep going the way they are, I think pretty much all current
69 MaverickM11 : " Ted can only remain profitable if we maintain these high LF. But that was the point of Ted in the first place - we had these primarily leisure route
70 UA744Flagship : Maverick, see Reply 44. Ted is, when it comes down to it: 1. A capacity change for the better 2. Increased utilization of a subfleet 3. A marketing mo
71 Bicoastal : "Ted is one of the things United has done right. It has increased revenue and market share in its markets." --Is this true for Fort Lauderdale? How ar
72 UA744Flagship : FLL is a special case. Last year it definitely increased market share and revenue over our previous service. However, planes from there were reallocat
73 Bicoastal : UA744Flagship - "Last year it definitely increased market share and revenue over our previous service." --Did United serve FLL prior to Ted? Reading b
74 Post contains images UA744Flagship : ORDFLL - yes. IADFLL - no. DENFLL - no. Spirit pulled out of DENFLL once we entered and F9 lost significant share. We gained a lot of ORDFLL share, es
75 MAH4546 : Delta never flew IAD-FLL in recent years. Delta/Song pulled out of MCO-IAD last fall. Delta did pull out of FLL-DCA (daily RJ) last fall, but it was
76 UA744Flagship : Thanks for the correction. My mistake - it was Ted's entry into IADMCO that was followed by DL/Song's exit...
77 Alphascan : True statement... though typical Algonquin Road spin. Sean would be proud of you. Frontier is hardly hurting on the route. Ted entered the market wit
78 Padcrasher : Do you have a source for this? Because according to DOT figures for the 3Q last year. Frontier's average fare was less than Spirit's, and both Spirit
79 UA744Flagship : From my data (as reported to the DOT) I see that F9s YOY Revenue has slipped, while capacity remained constant. Also, my data shows that F9 does comm
80 Padcrasher : So Mr Flagship where is your data from?
81 Alphascan : Sources? For F9's load factors, refer to DOT T-100s. For fare premium, I'll make it easy for you and refer you to Flag's Post #79. Last time I looked
82 UA744Flagship : My data is for Q4 2004. It's the DOT "SuperSet" data... I used to rely on DOT T-100s but often there are lots of errors/missign data in them. For the
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