Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4968 posts, RR: 23 Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 921 times:
There are informations related to new operning of AMS-PMI, FCO-PMI, DUS-MAD etc flights for the comming winter season.
It seems AB are expanding with more flights from abroad to abroad.
But will Air Berlin open a fully fledged HUB in Amsterdam or Basel as suggested in some agerman aviation- forums?
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1667 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 876 times:
Quoting B742 (Reply 1): What are the fleet plans of Air-Berlin, do they plan to operate the 737 alongside the A32X?
Yes. But the A320 will supersede the 734's and some of the oldest 738's.
Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter): There are informations related to new operning of AMS-PMI, FCO-PMI, DUS-MAD etc flights for the comming winter season.
It seems AB are expanding with more flights from abroad to abroad.
But will Air Berlin open a fully fledged HUB in Amsterdam or Basel as suggested in some agerman aviation- forums?
Are you reffering to the route map an AB's website? Be careful! It shows many abroad-to-abroad services that actually have a change-over in Germany, Austria (via VIE with Niki) or PMI (official AB hub).
If otherwise: What's the source of your information ?
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1667 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 821 times:
OK, I misread your post a little bit. PMI is not really "abroad" for AB. AB the by far the largest carrier at PMI with PMI being AB's largest hub! It's comparable to to what STN is for FR, although FR does not offer connecting flights as AB does.
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4000 posts, RR: 32 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 733 times:
What I can say is that Air Berlin is currently in negociations with Basel airport to start services. The talks are confirmed by Basel airport spokeswomen Vivienne Gaskell AND Air Berlin.
Regards,
RJ100
Next: Basel-Istanbul-Basel on Turkish Airlines B-737-800
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4968 posts, RR: 23 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 722 times:
Thanks RJ100 - it seems to confirm that AB are targeting a series of new "Hubs" like AMS and BSL .
Beeing originally from Nuremberg myself I also wonder why AB don't convert NUE into a more active Euroshuttle HUB and advance Germanwings in their potential attempt to convert NUE into one of their future bases as previously announced several times.
We probabaly will see more from Air Berlin once they get more aircraft...
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4000 posts, RR: 32 Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 690 times:
Yes, Nuremberg is underserved in my opinion. You have an Air Berlin hub a few times a week right? That is mainly to leisure destinations however. But I think Nuremberg has good potential for business customers so they need more flights to the European business centers.
As for Basel, a reaction from the German low cost carriers will come. They dont like easyJet to take away "their" passengers from Southern Germany.
Regards,
RJ100
Next: Basel-Istanbul-Basel on Turkish Airlines B-737-800
MauriceB From Aruba, joined Aug 2004, 2141 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 664 times:
But will Air Berlin open a fully fledged HUB in Amsterdam or Basel as suggested in some agerman aviation- forums
not a smart move... KL and Transavia already revealed to the press that they will use Transavia to give Air Berlin a though time at AMS and they will fly on every route that AB intends to fly from AMS.. (also goes for sterling)
also there are already lots of Charter/low cost at AMS... to spain (includded mallorca we already have:
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4968 posts, RR: 23 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 600 times:
AB announce new routes relatively late in order to hide their intentions to the competition.They clearly establish themselves as a leader on PMI so any new flights from the UK might include Palma.
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 4439 posts, RR: 20 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 596 times:
Adding just some flights from AMS I would not call "creating a hub": You need spokes to create a hub, and the services already flown into AMS are point-to-point connections (TXL-AMS. Actually, AMS - PMI is a spoke itself to AB´s hub at PMI !
I don´t know what the situation at BSL is, but I think it just will be another airport served (maybe a spoke to PMI).
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8): also there are already lots of Charter/low cost at AMS... to spain (includded mallorca we already have:
AFAIK these carriers do not offer any onward connections from PMI to destinations on the iberian peninsula - but exactly that onward traffic (including traffic originating at PMI) to destinations on the iberian peninsula makes up a good portion of AB´s business at PMI.
Also: In my eyes AB´s move into STN with its STN - PMI - STN rotation also was sucessful - so why should AB´s product also sell at AMS ? AB´s flights to FMO regularly have pax from The Netherlands on board, as for for people living around Enschede it´s easier to drive to FMO than to AMS.
IMO another smart move by AB would be to start flying from Enschede to PMI (maybe with a F100 as used on ZRH - PMI, if they cannot fill a B738).
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ...
Jorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2809 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 551 times:
This one might be a bit off topic, but do you think that AB choose the right strategy? In my opinion the order of 110 airbus (together with Niki) is a bit too big for them. Think about fuel prices. They're at the highest level for ages. The results in higher air fares, which won't paid by the customers too long. Most people (the same goes for EZY and FR) fly because it's cheap. What happens when flying isn't cheap anymore. Will the whole Low Cost market collapse?
I think they should grow not that fast. OK the market is there at the moment, but what happens afterwards.
Well I know it's off topic, but I was in the mood to write it down.
One thing AB should really act, is there on-time performance, it's around 72% in the last month - not good for the "Testsieger".
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4000 posts, RR: 32 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 526 times:
@HT: Air Berlin is already present on the BSL to PMI route. They codeshare with the daily HapagFly flight. If they come down here they probably start with a Dusseldorf service, maybe expanding to some southern destinations and Vienna.
Regards,
RJ100
Next: Basel-Istanbul-Basel on Turkish Airlines B-737-800
Remind me: Is AB actually buying (and keeping) them or do they buy these a/c and sell them to some leasing company instantly & lease them back ?
The last AB-a/c had a plate at its entrance stating that the owner would be some kind of investment company in Pinneberg, Germany.
In case the only lease them, they can lay them off if economy requires it ...
But I agree, that AB + HG have to find work for these a/c even if they replace the B734´s and some of the older B738´s - and that task indeed might become difficult, unless they continue to open up new markets.
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ...
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 4439 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 421 times:
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13): @HT: Air Berlin is already present on the BSL to PMI route. They codeshare with the daily HapagFly flight.
RJ100,
tnx for the info! Sorry, I missed that your replay was directed to me.
Funny thing is, that HF officially operates from BSL while AB lists these flights as departing from MLH (but I´m aware of the situation at Basel/Mulhouse/Freiburg-Airport).
Unfortunately, these flights are timed in a way that they do not serve AB´s hub at PMI - but I´ve learned, that AB is also complaining to AENA (the company who runs the airports in Spain) about the situation, that AB is denied slots at PMI (at least at the requested times) during summer season. What really upsets AB is, that these slots are assigned to seasional carriers (read: carriers, that bring business to PMI-airport only during summer), while AB brings its business to PMI throughout the year.
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 15): AB dosent need to replace the 738s for gods sake!
No, they do not need to replace them, but at least one a/c could use a new cabin outfit. I recall having been on the same a/c (whose reg. I lost, but it was a B738) flying the evening rotation PMI - HAJ during last winter, which had different seats than usual - I remember this, as the available space (not the pitch) for my long legs was even less than normal on AB´s 738´s.
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ...
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2404 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 415 times:
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 12): This one might be a bit off topic, but do you think that AB choose the right strategy? In my opinion the order of 110 airbus (together with Niki) is a bit too big for them.
That's probably the reason why AB have only ordered 60 A320s.
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 12): Most people (the same goes for EZY and FR) fly because it's cheap. What happens when flying isn't cheap anymore. Will the whole Low Cost market collapse?
Don't forget that AB don't rely on the Low Cost market only. They are still a big charter airline.
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2404 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 334 times:
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 18): As far as I know they ordered 70 and 40 for FlyNiki. Which is more or less the same, because Niki flies AB routes as well as they do.
That's not quite correct.
They have ordered 60 A320s for AB and 10 for FlyNikki. The rest are options. I think that's economical wise a big difference. If the market doesn't grow as expected they stay with their 60 (+10). If the market develops good they will exercise their options.
Sponsor Message: 
From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 4968 posts, 
From Spain, joined Mar 2005, 3605 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1667 posts, 
From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4000 posts, 
From Aruba, joined Aug 2004, 2141 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 2882 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts,