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Delta To Cut 7 ICT Flights  
User currently offlineBH346 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 14
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

Looks like 7 Delta flights are being cut from ICT including all SLC service to the city as well as all CVG apparently (although it said 2 flights were going and I thought we had 3 dailies to CVG). 4 flights to ATL stay. Very disappointing news, I'm wondering how the city will react to it.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/11750620.htm


Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6169 times:

CVG does indeed get 3 flights, and ATL currently gets 6. So, it looks like DL is finally giving ICT officials the finger, and rightfully so.

User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6068 times:

This goes back to the earlier thread I had started about Delta's complaints over Witchita paying subsidies to Air Tran, but I had heard they were closing the station altogether. I guess cooler heads have prevailed, but I look forward to seeing how the City Council reacts.

User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6436 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Is SRQ's situation the same as ICT? Is it the same kind of subsidy?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Can you blame Delta for this? ICT is paying a primary competitor to compete with DL. Not so bright.

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Is SRQ's situation the same as ICT? Is it the same kind of subsidy?

It is the same kind of subsidiary. In both cases (and TLH and GSO as well, IIRC), FL was awarded subsidies to lure them into those markets for 2 years. However, the 2 years at ICT are long over, yet ICT continues to pay subsidies to FL. So DL has said "Either you pay us subsidies as well, or youdrop those for FL". When ICT wouldn't budge, DL changed that to "Either you pay us subsidies as well, or if you continue to only pay them to FL, you can kiss our southern a$$es." Admittedly the last part is no actual quote  Wink .


User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5793 times:

I think many who dispute the subsidies forget to ask one question..

Why doesn't Delta get them? Why did Delta charge $1000 fares to bring them into existance? The conclusion is that Air Tran probably would have never serviced ICT if ICT did not notice there was a problem with the fares. If ICT authorities see a problem with FL, they will naturally stop paying them to fly there, plain and simple.

Has Delta officially commented that FL subsidies are the reason? Maybe it really has something to do with its Regional carriers? Kind of funny that DL would pull routes that FL doesn't even serve and keep the ones that FL does if this was so?



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Is SRQ's situation the same as ICT? Is it the same kind of subsidy?

It started out exactly the same. However FL dropped their ICT-MDW flights and the subsidy evolved to just ATL.
In SRQ's case FL is receiving the subsidies to provide service from SRQ-BWI.

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 4):
Can you blame Delta for this? ICT is paying a primary competitor to compete with DL. Not so bright.

I wish they pulled out altogether, but I guess you also have to lookout for the employees based there.

Quoting BH346 (Thread starter):
4 flights to ATL stay.

If the city wants their flights back they will have to pay for them, which they won't do.
The 4 flights that are staying are:

4455 7:00am 10:10am CRJ becomes CJ4 in Sep
4419 12:58pm 4:50pm CRJ Becomes CR7 in Aug
4177 4:15pm 7:25pm CR7
4846 7:06pm 10:19pm CJ4 becomes CRJ in Sep



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 6):
Why doesn't Delta get them? Why did Delta charge $1000 fares to bring them into existance? The conclusion is that Air Tran probably would have never serviced ICT if ICT did not notice there was a problem with the fares. If ICT authorities see a problem with FL, they will naturally stop paying them to fly there, plain and simple.

Seems you have failed to see what those subsidies where meant to be for. Subsidies are just to get new entrants to start service in a new market, to either offer alternative service (FL at SRQ) or to get any service at all (DL at APF). However, those subsidies are there not only to lure those carriers into the city, but also to make a guarantee to the airline that their service will be profitable, so that the airline doesn't just leave the city again. Just look at TLH for comparison sake: DL dominated and still dominates TLH, especially TLH-ATL. Fares were high, and many people were willing to pay those fares. Yet, airport authorities decided they want an LCC option to ATL, and offered FL subsidies to start service there, which FL also did. And what happened? FL was there, but the pax still continued to fly Delta, because they lowered their prices. And the result was that after the 2 years of suibsidies were over and FL saw that they would lose money in TLH without them, they left TLH. And now TLH is "only" stuck with DL again. GSO had the same thing happen.
And the same thing should have happened at ICT. But the city fathers decided to continue the subsidies, knowing very well that FL would be out of town without them. Right thinking from ICT's point of view, but the fact of the matter is, this is not what those subsidies were meant for. Hence why DL is p!ssed at ICT and decides to significantly reduce their presence there, and maybe later to drop ICT completely.


User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
And now TLH is "only" stuck with DL again. GSO had the same thing happen.

Exactly what I was saying, ICT does not want to share the same fate so they are willing to pay-up to keep FL whether start-up or not. What is wrong with that as long as FL produces the lower fares? There are no guidelines or laws governing them, so ICT can do as it please.

Comes to show how bad DL was exploiting their small market premium on ICT, Delta should have stayed on top of things and dropped the ball again.



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 9):
What is wrong with that as long as FL produces the lower fares?

The fact that subsidies are not meant to offered over a time span of more than 2 years, and the fact that the FAA is strictly against such methods.


User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 9):
Comes to show how bad DL was exploiting their small market premium on ICT, Delta should have stayed on top of things and dropped the ball again.

Classic spin from a Citrus fan. Why doesn't ICT support the airline that has had service there all along and give DL the subsidies to lower their fares?

FL gets forked over money to make a profit no matter if they have 3 people on a flight, and the other airlines (that have more to offer as far as routes) have to work for it. That's what it comes down to.

B


User currently offlineGroundStop From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 11):
Why doesn't ICT support the airline that has had service there all along and give DL the subsidies to lower their fares?

Well if B is getting involved, I have to. lol. Allow me to make an analogy out of your argument. If a town is being terrorized by a burglar, would you pay the burglar to stop robbing people...or would you pay for more police to keep the burglar from robbing people?

JP


User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

JP, no more buddy passes for you!  Wink

That analogy doesn't quite work, cause Delta was providing a service long before airtran, and the people paid the fares. It's not robbery if people voluntarily pay for the service. It's supply and demand.

Delta has provided the service of transportation for that city and opened up the world to it. Hardly a negative thing.

B


User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
The fact that subsidies are not meant to offered over a time span of more than 2 years, and the fact that the FAA is strictly against such methods.

Exactly how far does the FAA scope of authority go to competitive issues like this? Typically these issues are handled by the DOT whom I've yet to see any comments from on the issue from? Find the law if there is one?

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 7):
I wish they pulled out altogether, but I guess you also have to lookout for the employees based there.

It's great that Delta cares so much for its employees and customers in a small market to just break-even or lose money on ATL-ICT by holding on to it. Being realistic, they have to be making money on the route to keep it or ICT is paying them too.

If they are not making money on ICT-ATL, I'm proud not to be a stock-holder there!!



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineXlpants From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 14):
Being realistic, they have to be making money on the route

Doubt it! Probably losing their shirt! But they can't pull out without losing face vis a vis FL. Better to jettison the bigger money losers to SLC and CVG. This is probably the best loss prevention move DL has made schedule wise all year!

If I were a ICT city father, I would say "Who Cares!" CVG, SLC, no voter could care less! Low fares and Elton to ATL and beyond, now that gets votes!

I would also then start a campaign to raise money to get COEX to EWR. Everybody wants to go to NYC!


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 14):
Being realistic, they have to be making money on the route to keep it or ICT is paying them too.

DL is making money in ICT. The thing about the RJ is that DL can put it on another route and still make money, for instance SLC-SGF and MLB-IAD. This move by DL was simply to show the city that DL doesn't need ICT as much ICT will likely need DL. Time will tell who wins out.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineGroundStop From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5434 times:

B,

I promise the buddy passes will be put to good use. I tried to think of a different way to phrase my analogy, but you're right...it doesn't make total sense. I can see the argument from both sides but unfortunately, I don't think its within the scope of the FAA or DOT to get involved. The city has the legal authority to do what they are doing, as far as I'm aware. I hope it all works out for the city and both airlines in the end.

JP

PS...hopefully Gaddis doesn't get too friendly with the camels.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25248 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 16):
The thing about the RJ is that DL can put it on another route and still make money,

If Delta has discovered how to make money on an RJ, then Delta has discovered the answer to a question that baffles most airlines.

At DIA, for example, both United and Frontier admit that under GAAP principles RJ's do not make money - not even the CR7's. Their value is as feed to mainline.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineXlpants From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
If Delta has discovered how to make money on an RJ, then Delta has discovered the answer to a question that baffles most airlines

This is a quote worth framing!


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
If Delta has discovered how to make money on an RJ, then Delta has discovered the answer to a question that baffles most airlines.

At least you used the word "most"



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5298 times:

Quoting Xlpants (Reply 15):
f I were a ICT city father, I would say "Who Cares!" CVG, SLC, no voter could care less! Low fares and Elton to ATL and beyond, now that gets votes!

Who cares? The people who want to fly from ICT to BQK, GEG, BTR, STR, IST...and on and on. I think they care. You're welcome ICT.

Quoting GroundStop (Reply 17):
PS...hopefully Gaddis doesn't get too friendly with the camels.

He gets there and people are already droping dead. Wait till you hear the story!...lol

B


User currently offlineXlpants From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 21):
The people who want to fly from ICT to BQK, GEG, BTR, STR, IST.

That's why DL will keep ATL. To service the 1 person a year that goes to/from ICT and BQK and the 1 person a day that they compete for with AA and CO to BTR and the 1 person a month that goes to IST and STR, combined!

No one will even notice that CVG or SLC are gone!

[quote=NonRevKing,reply=21]I think they care.

I don't!


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5127 times:

Quoting GroundStop (Reply 12):
If a town is being terrorized by a burglar, would you pay the burglar to stop robbing people...or would you pay for more police to keep the burglar from robbing people?

I would hardly equate Delta's ICT service to being terrorized by a burglar. The fact of the matter is that the City Council is subsidizing Air Tran's low fares by guaranteeing them $2 million a year in profits, which allows Air Tran to artificially deflate fares- not because their cost structure allows them to charge lower fares. I think what Delta is saying is let them compete with us on a level playing field where every year, they, like Delta are guaranteed $0 in profits.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Subsidies are only to be used to lure more competition to a city or to lure any air service to a city. However, in this case, it is completely different. In this case, those subsidies(which are mostly taxpayer money) are being used to basically run out competition. I am sure the citizens of ICT, especially those that do fly Delta, are not too happy with the city driving out "their" airline, while guaranteeing a profit to some of the competition.

ICT's defense of not wanting to offer subsidies to DL is because they are expecting that that would "make the wolf larger, so it can slaughter more sheep." HUH? No, the reason you should offer the subsidies to anyone for new service/lower fares is to level the playing field for everyone. FL can sit on their a$$ and do nothing, but make money, while DL, NW, UA, AA all have to work hard and provide worthwhile service to the customer to make a buck. As mentioned before, ICT seems to think that by feeding the wolf, you are making it bigger to slaughter more sheep. Well, don't they see that they are feeding a badger, but have no control over whether that badger raids the chicken coop or not. They are letting FL use the subsidies as a crutch instead of their intended purpose. Why don't they use that cash to help FL build a customer base in ICT so that FL wouldn't need the subsidies? Billboard advertising, tv ads, airline sponsored movie ticket giveaways, etc. Or maybe they do not have faith that FL could hold their own in ICT? Maybe they are afraid that if they did end service, there is an EXTREMELY likely possibility they would get screwed out of $7million, since FL has a history of doing so once subsidies end.

$2mil a year is hardly the kind of money the wolf would need in order to make a profit in ICT. But it would show DL that the city of ICT apparently cares about its service, and in return Delta would let ICT write its own ticket, so to speak. You give Delta $2mil a year, just ask and Delta will give you whatever you like. You want mainline service? Sure. You want service to MCO or SLC? Sure. You want increased service to CVG? No problem. Instead, ICT prefers to snub the largest carrier there and when the citizens of ICT see the sudden drop of service offered to the city, I am sure the leaders of the city will see their mistake. Considering the mentality the city is using, they would probably offer the badger another $2mil for more service. But pretty soon, that badger is going to associate the city with free food and hang around more, expecting more handouts. Didn't anyone ever tell them not to feed wild animals? LOL


25 BH346 : They do that, too. The city pays for quite a bit of AirTran advertising on TV, the radio, the newspaper, billboards, and they've gone up to the airpo
26 OttoPylit : Oh God, that is tacky. Can you get any more tacky? I can see it now. ICT Rep: Welcome to Wichita airport, who are you flying out on? Pax(standing at
27 NonRevKing : You know what I mean, stop being ignorant. ANYONE going from ICT westbound will lose service. I don't think we're talking one or 2 people. They can h
28 Ikramerica : If you are going to pay for service to your city, paying to one airline is not the best way. Instead, offer to pay any airline to "break even" on thei
29 Post contains links Gr8SlvrFlt : From today's Wichita Eagle: http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/busi...s/industries/aviation/11781761.htm Summation: Delta's (and everyone else's) ridersh
30 Padcrasher : And if I was a decision maker at AA or CO or NW I'd pull more service from ICT as well . Because if this city gets away with funding LCCs at your expe
31 OttoPylit : "Ideally, that will mean many more fliers, more flights, and an end to the need to subsidize AirTran. As Wichita grows stronger as an air market, so s
32 Midway2AirTran : Ever heard of the Southwest effect? Only exception in this case is that AirTran is making the effects and ICT is willing to pay for it. It is well pr
33 DAYFL : Midway2AirTran, Good post! Many miss the points you just brought up.
34 OttoPylit : No kidding? Who would have thought? What I am saying is, its Wichita. No offense to any natives on here, but WHAT is in Wichita? What would be the po
35 Post contains links GroundStop : http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/kansa...late=contentModules/printstory.jsp "Marketing to businesses gives AirTran a lift So far, nearly $500,000 has be
36 Travatl : Touche Groundstop...........
37 Midway2AirTran : Groundstop, Thanks for the extra backing of my earlier statement. Exactly why ICT needs AirTran to keep fares in check, otherwise they cannot grow the
38 DeltaMIA : You aren't comparing the same type of air service. In VLD, DHN, and ABY DL is the only one willing to provide service. I don't see any markets that F
39 CitationJet : Boeing Military & Commercial - all Boeing 737 fuselages built in ICT. Raytheon Aircraft (Beech Aircraft) - All Bonanzas, Barons, King Airs, and biz j
40 Xlpants : " target=_blank>http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/busi...1.htm So like I said earlier, no one in ICT gives a crap that DL pulled down service! For DL th
41 BH346 : That article isn't coming up but I assume you're referring to the editorial. Like I said earlier, the Eagle's editorial board has been critical of Del
42 CitationJet : What are the four corresponding flights from ATL to ICT?
43 DeltaMIA : 4419 10:57 12:11 CR7 4177 14:29 15:40 CR7 4846 17:17 18:33 CR4 4456 20:39 21:53 CRJ
44 OttoPylit : Great, now if those firms can generate another 1.5 mil USD a year, the city can stop having to provide handouts to Airtran, right? Probably not, Airt
45 Gr8SlvrFlt : Ottopylit, your crack me up! You've had AirTran go from being the crappy little upstart forcing it's way to the trough to the bully picking on poor, s
46 DAL767400ER : I think you are confusing DL/FL with Song/JetBlue. When was the last time DL shadowed FL?
47 Gr8SlvrFlt : When was the last time DL shadowed FL? Flint, Freeport, Newport News, Los Angeles & Richmond to name a few.[Edited 2005-06-03 16:36:06]
48 Goingboeing : Bingo. Look at Vanguard at CVG...everybody in CVG complained about being held hostage by Delta and United...Vanguard starts service, and the good cit
49 Post contains images DAL767400ER : You can't be serious about that. In that case FL has been shadowing Delta on ATL-LAS, ATL-DEN, ATL-SRQ, ATL-CLT, etc .
50 Gr8SlvrFlt : Los Angeles? Yes, when Delta triples capacity overnight. Delta wasn't even serving Flint, Freeport or Newport News until AirTran started having some s
51 Bucky707 : "The bottom line here is that AirTran is not competing against Delta (actually ASA, Comair & Skywest in this case) but against Skymiles, an example of
52 DAL767400ER : That was because of JetBlue, not because of Air Tran. Besides, get your numbers right before making such a statement. Before JetBlue, Delta offered 8
53 Goingboeing : Because if I have 9 punches on my sandwich card, and the new sandwich store opens up, all I need is one more punch to get a freebie, who will I be pa
54 Gr8SlvrFlt : That was because of JetBlue, not because of Air Tran. Besides, get your numbers right before making such a statement. Before JetBlue, Delta offered 8
55 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Wow, DL went from 3 757s to SNA to 4 757s. That's tripling capacity! Wow, DL went from 2 757s to SNA to 3 757s. That's tripling capacity! Seriously,
56 Goingboeing : Wichita knows that if they don't subsidize a low fare carrier, should that carrier leave, Delta will bend them over again...without benefit of vaseli
57 Midway2airtran : AirTran has back-up plans to possibly lease aircraft to other carriers due to over-capacity issues domestically, no lack of capacity for FL with that
58 FlyPNS1 : Actually since Airtran left TLH fares haven't gone up that much. They've gone up some, but nothing dramatic. In fact, passenger traffic at TLH is hig
59 MAH4546 : They gained a lot though, too. Delta added JFK and TPA and more flights to MIA and FLL (though dropped DFW), while 3M added TPA. AA might be coming s
60 Gsoflyer : GSO statistics show Airtran ran 80% capacity for the last year before they left. Once they moved to CRJ's, they lost business travelors (my company wa
61 Post contains images OttoPylit : OOh, only one night away and all these responses. This thread sure did start up again. I feel like I'm standing at an awesome buffet, but my plate is
62 Luv2fly : Same use to be said about PA, EA and others.
63 OttoPylit : I knew someone would bring that up, and probably could have guessed it to be you. Sorry, but Pan Am and Eastern, although both major carriers in their
64 Midway2AirTran : If the GA Legislature is so good at Airline Management, why haven't they done anything yet? You are also saying that DL should milk up billions of do
65 DAL767400ER : Since you asked for it, here's the data from December 31st, 2004: Out of the 541 mainline planes DL used, 332 were owned and 209 leased. The exact nu
66 Gr8SlvrFlt : Owning does not mean they're paid for. They're mortgaged to the hilt and subject to repossession. I own a home and 2 cars but if I were to fall behind
67 Post contains images OttoPylit : And what would happen to the local Atlanta economy if Delta were to flop? Are you saying it wouldn't crash? Hate to tell you, but its very likely, lo
68 Midway2AirTran : Delta doesn't own them if the other creditors do, still nothing to borrow money against! These aircraft are up for repo if Delta defaults on loans. G
69 FlyPNS1 : That's true, but virtually all of DL's owned aircraft are used as collateral for loans (EETC's) DL took out after 9/11. If DL is unable to repay thes
70 Gr8SlvrFlt : LOL...Yep, very made up. 8 hr flight with no meal and nothing more than XM satellite radio to appease you. Europe isn't as keen on subsidies as the US
71 DeltaMIA : Why did you choose DL? It appears as though you went into the flight expecting the worse and when any little thing went wrong you complained about it
72 Post contains images OttoPylit : But here is the thing, not every airplane has been used as collateral for loans. Management has used some of the owned aircraft that are planning on
73 N102DAman : First of all It is great to be back on the forums. OttoPylit, it is good to see you again. DAL767400ER it is indeed nice to meet you. I have been gone
74 Post contains links Gr8SlvrFlt : Sunflower Travel's vice president for operations, Devin Hansen, called Delta's letter and its decision to cut service "sour grapes." Delta is "alienat
75 Positiverate : Should we be impressed that this guy is a VP with "Sunflower Travel"? Is that a big deal or something?
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