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DL To Begin LAN-ATL..  
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

The city of Lansing finally gets their wish of LAN-ATL service. Effective 09/01 Delta Connection Carrier ASA will begin flying two daily flights between LAN and ATL.

Flight Departs Arrives
4617* Lansing at 6:45 a.m. Atlanta at 8:48 a.m.
4621 Lansing at 3:20 p.m. Atlanta at 5:25 p.m.
4621 Atlanta at 12:55 p.m. Lansing at 2:50 p.m.
4624 Atlanta at 7:15 p.m. Lansing at 9:13 p.m.

Here is a press release
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050527/cgf041.html?.v=7


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Finally, it was long overdue. But didn't LAN want this service through a SCAG-grant? Have those already been decided?

User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

Good to know the times....here is a post from back in April about this.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2040437


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2455 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

A one million $ revenue guarantee and $100K for marketing from the LAN airport authority. How your tax dollars should be spent? What a crock!

-----------------------

"The airport authority board Tuesday unanimously approved a $1 million revenue guarantee for Delta Air Lines to start two daily flights to Atlanta, to be paid by the airport only if Delta isn't profitable in the first year......

....The board also approved giving Delta $100,000 for marketing, which it typically gives to airlines establishing new service."

[Edited 2005-05-28 13:37:25]


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Pot, meet kettle.


DL has complained about FL getting subsidies from ICT and now RIC, and they're going to be getting them from LAN. Perhaps if DL didn't charge an arm and a leg on flights out of ICT and RIC, those cities wouldn't have had to subsidize FL to start service.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12113 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2640 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Also start LAN before another carrier can begin the service, is how I see it.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2636 times:

That is excellent. I always love to see an underserved airport getting more service. Now, if we could just get our CVG-BIL flights back.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6618 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
DL has complained about FL getting subsidies from ICT and now RIC, and they're going to be getting them from LAN.

There's a big difference. DL did NOT protest when FL received initial start-up subsidies for ICT service back in 2002. Now, FL has been in the market over 3 years (hardly a new entrant) and is still whoring for more subsidies. The subsidies no longer have anything to do with initial start-up costs and are just corporate welfare.

The subsidies for LAN-ATL are designed to cover the initial losses any carrier will sustain when they enter a market. After that, the subsidies will go away and the LAN-ATL route will have to sink or swim on its own.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
DL has complained about FL getting subsidies from ICT and now RIC, and they're going to be getting them from LAN. Perhaps if DL didn't charge an arm and a leg on flights out of ICT and RIC, those cities wouldn't have had to subsidize FL to start service.

FlyPNS is correct. Note part of the agreement:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 3):
"The airport authority board Tuesday unanimously approved a $1 million revenue guarantee for Delta Air Lines to start two daily flights to Atlanta, to be paid by the airport only if Delta isn't profitable in the first year..........The board also approved giving Delta $100,000 for marketing, which it typically gives to airlines establishing new service."

Note how they are getting the revenue guarantee to be paid ONLY IF DELTA ISN'T PROFITABLE IN THE FIRST YEAR, and the marketing money to establish the new service.

Note how it didn't say that the subsidies would be paid whether Delta was or was not profitable in the first year and every year afterward. That is a KEY difference between the LAN and ICT deal. Nice try though.

But heck, if FL is going to whore itself out for free cash, why can't Delta? What's good for the goose is good for the gander right? If cities are willing to pony up the cash for service, why not swoop in and grab it while the grabbing is good?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12113 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2591 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

WOW never thought I would say this though I have to agree with OttoPylit, if it is being offered then why not take it.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

DL can't have it both ways. They're complaining about another airline getting them (First ICT, now RIC) and then turn right around and sign a deal elsewhere that will get them subsidies if the route is a money loser. It's a bit hypocritical on Delta's part. Yes, FL has abused the intent of the ICT subsidies, but ICT has kept subsidizing FL's flights because without them, the fares would jump back up once FL left the market (which they would if they were to lose the subsidies.). To the folks in ICT, it's cheaper to subsidize a competitor than to have them leave and make it more expensive to fly out of ICT. It's a Catch-22, you keep paying FL to fly there, you risk losing DL service; you stop paying FL, they leave and the fares go back up.

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
They're complaining about another airline getting them (First ICT, now RIC) and then turn right around and sign a deal elsewhere that will get them subsidies if the route is a money loser. It's a bit hypocritical on Delta's part.

I would say they are doing it to possibly show Airtran that if other cities are going to subsidize competition so easily, then Delta will not leave itself out from getting the subsidies as well. Apparently, some of these cities just have a few bucks burning in their pockets, just needing something to spend it on, so why not do something to take it?


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Good for LAN! If they want Delta service, it is perfectly fair for them to offer an incentive. Delta will probably charge an arm and a leg for the service; it's not a deal I'd make, but that's LAN's business. Delta's product, like AirTran's, has lots of value, and local authorities are free to decide which carriers they want to lure. They also may not be confident that their market could support AirTran's bigger base seat capacity without an ongoing incentive program, which as we know may or may not turn out to be legal. Delta has the capacity-increment flexibility to start out small and see if they can grow.

The Lansing MSA as of 2002 is 454,000; but the nearby Kalamazoo MSA has 319,000, and AZO doesn't have ATL nonstops. Delta might find that LAN can support more than two CRJ-200's. I'm surprised that Lansing didn't have Delta ATL nonstops already *without* an incentive. Fort Wayne has DL ATL nonstops with an MSA of 397,000, and a slew of CVG flights.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2455 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Michigan's economy is in the tank. I'd be really pissed if I were an Ingham County resident (I'm a former one) forced to pay DL any amount of money so LAN can say "me too- we have service to ATL." The drive to DTW or GRR from Lansing is no big deal- two cities that don't guarantee DL money for ATL service.....

Lot's of GM folks and others out of work in the Lansing area. That $1 million could be much better spent by the poor taxpayer by not imposing the tax in the first place.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2298 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

I support LAN and their actions. Youve got to be competitive. Why not start service to an airport if the airport will pay for it! Plus this gives the citizens of lansing more options for easy access to Europe and Southeast US destinations through the ATL hq-hub. As an old DL employee myself, I also am glad to see them expanding  Smile


ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
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