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Brasilia - Intercontinental Flights?  
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Just surfed through the database when I ran across some pictures of Brasilia (SBBR) during the South America - Arab summit. I first was more than astonished before reading the text to the pictures. And then I began to wonder:

Does Brasilia have intercontinental flights at all? I mean it is the capital of Brazil. But on the other hand, internationally you never hear too much of Brasilia. It's always Rio or Sao Paolo, maybe Recife from time to time. So I was just wondering. Does Brasilia have any flights to destinations outside of South America?


- When dreams take flight, follow them -
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

You make a very good point there...

As far as I know they have nothing... I know that TAP and TAAG used to have something, but I am not sure if this was a co-operation service or not.

Anyone have any ideas?

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)



I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

TransBrasil used to fly to Miami and Dulles, and TAM used to offer a daily A320 flight to Miami that stopped in Manaus. This was started just weeks before 9.11, so it was canceled quickly. However, there has been talk lately that it will resume.

American Airlines has shown interest in flying to the city, but can't until a new US/Brazil bilatteral is created that expands the number of flights US airlines can have to Brazil.



a.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Brasilia is not an O/D leisure market.
Maybe BSB could support some intercontinental non-stop flights - even if not daily - to LIS, MIA, IAD, JFK/EWR and PTY (because PTY's a hub).
I don't know if TP has open skies with Brazil, so someday they'll fly not only to BSB but to CNF, CWB, POA and BEL too from LIS.
As for US-Brazil flights, US airlines flying to BSB would rather use the frequencies allocated to them by the US/Brazil bilateral to fly into GRU or even GIG. Are there Brazilian airlines interested to fly non-stop to the USA from BSB now? Maybe none, they would need widebodies and they better use them in other international routes.
Rightnow CM can't fly scheduled to other brazilian destinations than GRU, GIG and MAO - unless there's a new Panama-Brazil bilateral. Due to CM Embraer 190/170 purchase a new bilateral could happen soon. When it comes to tentative schedules, their B737-700 have the range for BSB and BSB flights would fit their evenning hub hour to morning hub hour (just like SCL, still with awful arrival/departure times).



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1931 times:
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Nowadays Brasilia has an int'l service from JJ (BSB-POA-EZE JJ8020) and with RG (BSB-GIG-EZE RG8634). Both are with stops as stated.
In fact BSB is strong due to the fact that its a huge regional JJ hub. O&D Brasilia is not important as stated above. There are a few corporates and the government in fact is the biggest BSB employer.

Quoting FlyinTLow (Thread starter):
Does Brasilia have intercontinental flights at all? I mean it is the capital of Brazil. But on the other hand, internationally you never hear too much of Brasilia. It's always Rio or Sao Paolo, maybe Recife from time to time. So I was just wondering. Does Brasilia have any flights to destinations outside of South America?

No, no flights outside South America from BSB.
Other international flights outside South America from brazilian airports (not Rio/SP)
Salvador (SSA) to Miami (JJ weekly) Lisboa (TP daily)
Natal (NAT) to Lisboa (TP 4 times per week)
Fortaleza (FOR) to Lisboa (TP daily) and Ilha do Sal
Recife (REC) to Lisboa (TP daily)
Manaus (MAO) to Miami (LAB)

Quoting QM001 (Reply 1):
As far as I know they have nothing... I know that TAP and TAAG used to have something, but I am not sure if this was a co-operation service or not.

TAAG as i know fly only to GIG weekly. TAP i think is not interested in BSB as their markets in Brazil Northeast (SSA/REC/NAT/FOR) are mainly for tourists, GRU for business and GIG for business/tourists and to attend the Huge portuguese community in Rio de Janeiro. BSB probably will be just a government market without Biz, Tourists or Community, which represents a few passengers to be attended which can be done thru SSA (changing A310 for a bigger A340) or GIG/GRU.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1908 times:

BSB, located in the middle of Brazil, is Brazil's third biggest gateway. It is a major hub connecting South and North of Brazil. BSB is one of the best airports in Brazil (if not the best!), very modern, comfortable, efficient. BSB is typically a connecting hub, but also has strong (predominantly domestic) high-yield demand.

Currently there are 3 international flights from BSB, all to EZE: RG BSB-GIG-EZE, RG BSB-POA-EZE and JJ BSB-POA-EZE.

All pax from BSB are funeled to GRU/GIG for international flights. As mentioned above, a fligt BSB-MAO-MIA could have strong potential.

Rgs,


User currently offlineTAP340 From Portugal, joined Oct 2004, 102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1894 times:

I read something in the newspapers some time ago, that TP wanted to begin flights to Brasilia. I don't know the status of that now, due to the alleged bought of 20% of Varig by TP.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1874 times:
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Quoting TAP340 (Reply 6):
I read something in the newspapers some time ago, that TP wanted to begin flights to Brasilia. I don't know the status of that now, due to the alleged bought of 20% of Varig by TP.

TAP340, it comes to me as a surprise. Very interesting to see that TP could begin to fly to Brasilia. Probably TP with their experience at SSA/REC/NAT/FOR (first to fly to Europe non stop) think they can introduce TP flights as the best connection to Europe. In this way, BSB can handle a TP non stop flight which allows connections to MAD, CDG, FRA, MXO, FCO, LHR and others. This first could (and probably) be a profit maker. Flight time to LIS for example can be reduced in more than 5 hours.
TP strategy deserves a lot of applause.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1869 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
TP strategy deserves a lot of applause.

Indeed, and this same strategy was the underlying reason for TP very survival!

Some interesting fact about TP flights to SSA, REC, NAT, and FOR: on average (2004 data), 50% pax are Portuguese, 35% other countries in Europe, 25% Brazilians. It is understood that after TP joined Star, and started codeshare flights with RG, the percentage of Brazilian pax increased dramaticall (many RG FFs migrated to TP-operated flights) leading to an overall increase in loads (and fares).

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1852 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
leading to an overall increase in loads (and fares).

You're right. Prices for FOR/NAT/REC/SSA flights to LIS is closer to the fares for GIG and GRU even for minus three hours of flight and a worst equipment (A310 vs A340). Seems that those four cities are very important for TP profits.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
TP strategy deserves a lot of applause.

Indeed, and this same strategy was the underlying reason for TP very survival!

At the same time the reason for RG reduction as they lose a lot of oportunities like Northeast-Frankfurt and they bet into GRU instead of GIG and other major cities. RG start to lose money when changed several flights to GRU and try to concentrate flights there.
The best international hub in Brazil should be Fortaleza or Natal as they are closer to Europe and North America. Imagine an airport with flights from NAT to everywhere and fast connections to all brazilian cities and south america, nice installations, little rains and thunderstorms...

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1819 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
PTY (because PTY's a hub).

LIM, MEX, SCL, BOG, MAD, CDG all are hubs and that does not mean there is demand....if it was that criteria that made airlines fly to cities then there should be nostops from ATL to the whole world since its the biggest hub.... indifferent 



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
LIM, MEX, SCL, BOG, MAD, CDG all are hubs and that does not mean there is demand....if it was that criteria that made airlines fly to cities then there should be nostops from ATL to the whole world since its the biggest hub....

1st of all, LIM, SCL and BOG are not intercontinental flights out of BSB.
2nd flights to/from a hub don't need to rely if there's a traffic demand to that specific hub. It's always good to have some O/D hub traffic, but not a must.
3rd Yes - MEX, MAD and CDG are hubs, but do you think mexican, spanish or french airlines will be interested to fly from their hubs in widebody aircraft to BSB? Given the use of their widebodies, the best service they would be able to give BSB would be once a week, non-stop or 2-3 with stops.

Air Portugal is the european airline most likely to fly to BSB someday soon, if they do LIS - BSB - CNF - LIS with A310 or similar, daily or 4-5 x week, they'll do OK.
As for other intercontinental flights, I would think only non-brazilian airlines with well established hubs, narrowbody/BSB-range aircraft could be interested in BSB high-yield market.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 11):
Air Portugal is the european airline most likely to fly to BSB someday soon, if they do LIS - BSB - CNF - LIS with A310

I agree with you and I would add that JJ and/or AA could also operate BSB-MIA or BSB-MAO-MIA.

As you mentioned, PTY would be an interesting case, since they could rely on BSB's big connecting traffic. But I would say that nonstop GIG, BEL or MAO would still have priority over BSB and they have bigger O&D market.

BSB airport, Brazil's third biggest hub:


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User currently offlineHiFi From Brazil, joined Apr 2005, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

I remember Transbrasil having a flight BSB - JFK. That was a long time ago.
I saw a Varig MD-11 yesterday night at BSB.. Does anyone know what route it is used in?

RG's and JJ's flights to EZE have been mentioned, but I once bought a BSB-GRU ticket with GOL and we boarded the route BSB-GRU-EZE (does it still exist?). We had to board through the international gates.



no commercial potential
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

I believe if TP started flihts to Brasillia it would consolidate their position as the no1 carrier to Brazil. The A310 offers the ideal capacity to start direct flights from Lisbon to Brasillia.

Love to see TP in Brasillia and also Manaus and Porto Alegre


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
As you mentioned, PTY would be an interesting case, since they could rely on BSB's big connecting traffic. But I would say that nonstop GIG, BEL or MAO would still have priority over BSB and they have bigger O&D market.

IMHO For better conections @ PTY CM PTY-GIG-PTY would require a B737-700 at least 4 days per week to remain in GIG at least 9 h. That's a lot for an airline which could make better use of those aircraft in other routes.
I don't see BEL as having better O/D market than BSB and sure, BEL can't compare to BSB when it comes to high-yield passengers (diplomats and politicians usually don't pay their own tickets). Together with GIG, MAO is the only other destination that the brazilian authotities have allowed CM to fly so far. There is an interesting O/D market there, specially if CM had B737-700 cargo/pax, but even with those new E190, thrice a week PTY-MAO-PTY may be a profitable reality soon.
One must take into account that BSB's international O/D passenger market area includes GYN too, that makes BSB-GYN around 6 million people (maybe more?) Not more than GIG, but far bigger than MAO and BEL.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
I believe if TP started flihts to Brasillia it would consolidate their position as the no1 carrier to Brazil. The A310 offers the ideal capacity to start direct flights from Lisbon to Brasillia.

Love to see TP in Brasillia and also Manaus and Porto Alegre

I puzzled as why TP has been that cautious about adding new brazilian destinations. Not only BSB but BEL, SLZ, MAO, CNF, CWB and POA should be in their network and flying with their own metal.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting HiFi (Reply 13):
I saw a Varig MD-11 yesterday night at BSB.. Does anyone know what route it is used in?

I'm almost sure RG flies the MD-11 and the B772 into BSB (GIG-BSB-MAO and GIG-BSB-BEL, if I'm not mistaken).

Quoting HiFi (Reply 13):
I once bought a BSB-GRU ticket with GOL and we boarded the route BSB-GRU-EZE (does it still exist?).

GOL operates MAO-GRU-EZE and SSA-GRU-EZE.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
CM PTY-GIG-PTY would require a B737-700 at least 4 days per week to remain in GIG at least 9 h. That's a lot for an airline which could make better use of those aircraft in other routes.
I don't see BEL as having better O/D market than BSB and sure, BEL can't compare to BSB when it comes to high-yield passengers (diplomats and politicians usually don't pay their own tickets).

Agree with your point.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
Together with GIG, MAO is the only other destination that the brazilian authotities have allowed CM to fly so far. There is an interesting O/D market there, specially if CM had B737-700 cargo/pax, but even with those new E190, thrice a week PTY-MAO-PTY may be a profitable reality soon.

Correct: MAO and BSB have the strongest potential for CM future operations.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
One must take into account that BSB's international O/D passenger market area includes GYN too, that makes BSB-GYN around 6 million people (maybe more?)

Correct. GYN is no more than 3h by roads to BSB airport.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I puzzled as why TP has been that cautious about adding new brazilian destinations. Not only BSB but BEL, SLZ, MAO, CNF, CWB and POA should be in their network and flying with their own metal.

I dont think TAP has been growing slow in the Brazilian market! In 2000 TAP only flew to GRU daily and GIG received 4/5 weekly flights. In about 5 year TAP grew from 11/12 weekly flights to 40 weekly flights, adding SSA, REC, FOR and NAT to their network and establishing GIG daily! It is an amazing growth! It is one new destinations per year: NAT was added in 2004 with 3 x week and as of June will go 4 x week and as of December daily. We can expect a new destination towards the end of 2005 after NAT is consolidated as daily.

You also have to remember that 70-90% of pax flying TAP to Northeast Brazil are Europeans, many on holidays (2004 data: 40% Portuguese pax; 35% other countries in Europe pax; 25% Brazilians).

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1485 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Hardi, allow me some comments,

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
I'm almost sure RG flies the MD-11 and the B772 into BSB (GIG-BSB-MAO and GIG-BSB-BEL, if I'm not mistaken).

Right for the MD11. The 777 is more rare visitor at BSB and there is no schedulle nowadays for BSB.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16):
GOL operates MAO-GRU-EZE and SSA-GRU-EZE.

Gol changed the flights, there aren't int'l flights from SSA or MAO anymore from G3:

Nowadays:
Flight 7452 GIG-GRU-EZE ETD: 9h (GIG)
Flight 7454 GIG-GRU-EZE ETD: 19h30 (GIG)

Flight 7453 EZE-GRU-GIG ETD: 6h45 (EZE)
Flight 7455 EZE-GRU-GIG ETD: 16h30 (EZE)

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
Love to see TP in Brasillia and also Manaus and Porto Alegre

I think POA will remain using connections thru GRU. Is a far market and not a strong advantage as pax can easily connect thru GRU. LIS is a market for north and northeast (or BSB) markets which must head in the other direction to GRU and only after can connect to Europe. FOR-LIS, NAT-LIS, REC-LIS, BSB-LIS, all of them saves hours to pax.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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