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2 Naieve ANA Pilots: 2 Poor ANA Pilots  
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20050528-00000018-san-soci

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20050527-00000283-jij-soci

Yikes. This is pretty bizarre but if the pilots did not break the company policy, nothing would have been a disaster.

First Article: Two Pilots over-drink and break the company policy as well as the cabin attendants

ANA pilot (Age 37) and Cabin Attendants (Age 29) in total eight people broke the company policy and consumed alchohol 12 hours before their flight. The captain and three other crew members contacted the company and was substituted but five members carried out their normal operations. The company has punished the total thirteen members with measures such as retraining.

According to ANA, the eight members flew to Akita airport on NH 875 at around 2 o'clock pm on 5/4th. At around 6 o'clock, they started drinking at an Izakaya (Japanese pub like place) and left the store at 9 o'clock pm. All of the members were to fly back to HND on NH 872 scheduled for a 7:50 departure the next day meaning that they broke the company policy of not drinking 12 hours before their flight.

While dining; they drank three beer on taps, wine, sake, and whiskey. After their time limit (7:50 pm) they report as drinking one glass of sake, the wine left in the glass.

ANA also says that the five members who flew back to HND the next morning were not aware of the ANA company policy or determined that the amount of alchohol consumption were not going to affect their jobs.


What sounds like a tragedy is the next article.

Driving 550kmph to catch a flight

ANA announced on the 27th that the relief pilots for NH 872 drove for 550 km to Akita airport on their private car. They drove the highway early in the morning for 550 km to Akita in order to catch their flight. After getting to Akita, they had no time to rest and they immediately had to depart.
According to NH, after the cabin crew were drinking over the curfew the captain and the first officer returned to the hotel and after discussing the issue for about an hour, they decided that they were unable to fly the next morning and called the company and asked for relief pilots.

As a result, the first officer drove the car with the captain in the passenger seat and left HND at around 2 o'clock am. They then drove for 550 km and arrived at Akita airport at 7:30. They finished their briefing in a hurry and started their pushback at 7:58.


Oh my gosh. The two naieve pilots are causing so much trouble. How did these two guys manage to finish their briefing in only 28 minutes? I can't believe that they managed to push-back only 8 minutes behind schedule. Well, the first officer putting the captain on the passenger seat seemed like a good move but do you know what happened to the relief pilots afterwards? How did the FO get his car back? I guess he had to drive another 550 kmph back to Tokyo after that........

 crazy 


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6169 times:

Sorry I forgot to put some additional info:

The aircraft being dealt with is a B767-300. So these were all pilots for the B767-300.

I have a question but a 37 year old pilot seems extremely young? Don't you think?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6125 times:
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Well, I give credit to the crew for calling crew scheduling to say that they had gone past their cutoff time. I'd rather have a pilot call in sick then show for a flight with any possibility of alcohol being detected on him.

Secondly twelve hours bottle to throttle is a bit extreme in my opinion.

Oh and a 37 year old 767 pilot isnt that uncommon.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Thread starter):
ow did these two guys manage to finish their briefing in only 28 minutes?

What do you think goes on in a flight briefing, normally takes 1-2 minutes, basically, picking up weather reports. This is excluding writing and filing a flight plan, which adds another 3-4 minutes.

All of our crews get here about :30 before a flight, and we are on time 100% of the time.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6086 times:

While the crew screwed up with the drinking, I am glad they refrained from flying. In many other cases, pilots go on and operate the flight or they sometimes get arrested trying. The headline should read 550km and not "kmph." Big difference.

37 years old is young for a captain in the US but not in Japan necessarily. JAL and ANA employ pilot candidates right out of college who have no flying experience and train them. They also hire graduates of the national aviation university. At age 37, the pilot may have been flying for 13 or 14 years which translates into quite a bit of experience.


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6048 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 1):
I have a question but a 37 year old pilot seems extremely young? Don't you think?

All of my classmates are Airbus/Boeing pilots and we are all under 27!



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4253 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

For Japanese standards, the age of 37 to be a B767 captain can be al little bit young indeed! In Japan it's not uncommon to stay in lower job-levels older ages. But of course, for foreigners like me, the age is quite normal and accepted  scratchchin 


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 2):
Secondly twelve hours bottle to throttle is a bit extreme in my opinion.

Not really, we on the railway have a 10 hour rule  Smile


Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 3):
we are on time 100% of the time

Cargo, right?!?! Never a missing passenger who's still in the tax-free shops or has his watch still on UK-time or has passed out after drinking or hasn't realized he had a gatechange or confused departure time with boarding time or lost his wife somewhere between flights and so on and so on!



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Quote:
What do you think goes on in a flight briefing, normally takes 1-2 minutes, basically, picking up weather reports. This is excluding writing and filing a flight plan, which adds another 3-4 minutes.

In Japan, they like conducting meetings/briefings.

Either domestic or international, the pilots usually get a face to face briefing by the flight dispatcher or what is called "operation officer" and together they review the flight plan created by the dispatcher. They spend a little bit of time discussing the weather, alternates, fuel and other operational concerns. The changes will be made here if necessary and the PIC will sign the flight plan/release. Then, it is usually followed by a group briefing with the entire crew including the flight attendants. They gather around a big table and chat about the details of the flight conducted by the Captain (sometimes done on the aircraft) On top of that, the flight attendants usually have their own meeting too prior to the flight.

Even after the flight I don't think they all scatter away to the hotel, they probably have de-brief to discuss the actual conditions along the flight and the flight attendants would probably talk with their cheif about their short comings and what/how the flight/customer service could have been better. That one is my guess though.

So in Japanese standard, the 28 minutes briefing may have been considered short.

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2005-05-29 17:59:44]

User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

Quote:
ANA announced on the 27th that the relief pilots for NH 872 drove for 550 km to Akita airport on their private car. They drove the highway early in the morning for 550 km to Akita in order to catch their flight.

This sounds very shady. I don't think we have the complete story. Nobody in the right mind would offer their private transportation 550km away even in the "company loyal culture" of Japan. I've heard most JAL and ANA pilots get picked up at their home to the airport prior to their flight simply because the company does not want to risk the traffic and car accidents etc to affect the schedule departure so they leave that ground transportation to the professionals. It just doesn't happen.

Im willing to bet the guy who went up there is probably his pissed-off immediate supervisor...a sort of his chief pilot figure. If the flight canceled due to "crew unavailable" for reason like this Im sure the chief pilot will be hosed and be severely punished for the lack of supervision. I think he was trying to deal with it and act responsible for his subordinate. Something like that is very possible in Japan.

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2005-05-29 18:26:07]

User currently offlineBiggles From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 459 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 2):
Secondly twelve hours bottle to throttle is a bit extreme in my opinion.

I've worked at several airlines where this is standard.At one airline,24 hours was minimum after moderate/heavy drinking.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4679 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5448 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

a CI pilot got sacked last year for drinking within 12 hrs

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3807 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Thread starter):
Two Pilots over-drink and break the company policy as well as the cabin attendants

The pilots broke the flight attendants?  Confused

Quoting Ktachiya (Thread starter):
Driving 550kmph to catch a flight

They drove at 550 km per hour?  checkeredflag   scratchchin 

Crazy Japanese flight crews!  silly 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
Quoting IL76TD (Reply 3):
we are on time 100% of the time

Cargo, right?!?! Never a missing passenger who's still in the tax-free shops or has his watch still on UK-time or has passed out after drinking or hasn't realized he had a gatechange or confused departure time with boarding time or lost his wife somewhere between flights and so on and so on!

Yes, cargo, so no, we don't have those problems, but i don't see what all your things have to do with pilots arriving late very close to departure.


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 9):
In Japan, they like conducting meetings/briefing

You know very well. Yes, this can take a super long time sometimes especially if someone referred to as a "Great Captain," is in control.

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 10):
I think he was trying to deal with it and act responsible for his subordinate

Yes I can understand what you mean. But the First Officer drove his private vehicle with the captain on the passenger seat.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 13):
They drove at 550 km per hour?

Sorry, 550 km. But considering that they got there in about 5 hours, they must have been speeding.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 14):
i don't see what all your things have to do with pilots arriving late very close to departure.

To show you why some companies do not have 100% punctuality, late pilots or not. Kind of p*ssed me off, that 100% 'cause I deal with the situation described every workday! Sorry!



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1705 times:

I just found an article of this incident in ENGLISH so I would like to post it up.

http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/931318/ANA20-0-1.html

ANA punishes boozing flight crew
2005.05.28


Eight flight crew members and five of their bosses have been punished after most of them were boozing and partying past the time permitted before they were supposed to be on a domestic flight from Akita to Tokyo, All Nippon Airways said.
All 13 were given a reprimand of some sort, with the eight actually drinking -- the flight captain, a co-pilot, a co-pilot trainee and five flight attendants -- served with written warnings. The five others -- the bosses of the crewmembers -- were verbally reprimanded.

ANA regulations forbid flight crew members from drinking within 12 hours of their duties, but the group partied on until just 11 hours before the flight.

Crew supposed to work in the cockpit for the flight were replaced by other staff who drove up from Tokyo to Akita, but the cabin crew stayed on.

"They hadn't drunk enough to affect their work performance," an ANA spokesman said, referring to the flight attendants.

ANA said the flight crew finished work at just before 2 p.m. on May 4 and were due to return to Tokyo's Haneda Airport on a flight leaving Akita at 7:50 a.m. the following day.

But they started drinking at about 6 p.m. on May 4, continuing until about 9:30 p.m.

The flight captain drank two large jugs of beer and two flasks of sake. Together, the eight members of the flight crew went through two bottles of wine and more than one dozen jugs of beer.

When the captain returned to his hotel, he realized they had been drinking past the time permitted by company regulations. Early on the morning of May 5, he notified ANA staff in Tokyo and the replacement crew were sent up.

Punishments were issued at various times from May 17 to May 20 and announced publicly on Friday. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, May 28, 2005)


It would be more accurate than me translating it



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
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