TS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8147 times:
I just looked through the 747 production list & noticed that UA had ordered 7 Boeing 747-400s in the late 1990s that were actually never built. Construction numbers are 28814 to 28820, regos N128UA to N134UA. The same goes for LH in 2002. There are 4 747s (c/n 33097 to 33433, D-ABTM to D-ABTP). Sorry if this has been discussed before but why were the orders cancelled? LH got the A340-600 not too long after this. Was this the replacement?
Texdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1266 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8009 times:
Combination of factors.
After 9/11, UA did not need the capacity.
LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet and probably got a good deal from Airbus for their 346's to boot.
GodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2751 posts, RR: 18 Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7883 times:
The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).
TS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7714 times:
Quoting GodBless (Reply 4): The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).
Thanks Max for the infos. This is what I wanted to know.
United Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 8792 posts, RR: 17 Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7669 times:
LH was looking at 4 additional B 747-400s before 9.11. A pity that everything was cancelled after 9.11. They do not need the capacity. And they have already ordered the A 380. Besides they already have a large B 747-400 fleet
Hope they will order the B 747 Advanced.
UA changed their 7 B 747-400 orders to B 777-200ERs way before 9.11
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7434 times:
BA is another airline that cancelled 747-400s. It is one of the reasons that its 777-236ERs are Rolls Royce powered, as the 747-436s BA still had on order were to bee RR powered, so when they were cancelled and replaced by 777s, BA wanted to avoid having to pay out to RR for the cancelled engines. As it was the 16 777-236ERs allowed the 16 747-236Bs to be replaced, while the cancelled 747-436s were part of a capacity cut.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7413 times:
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3): LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet
Yeah, because 744s are radial engined props that fly 300 kts
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3): Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.
A late 1980's technology that flies faster, holds more passengers and is more efficient on a seat-mile basis than any other aircraft in service
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
UALramperORD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7351 times:
Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 1): UA is probably going to be history in the next 72 hours if managment doesnt get serious about collective barginning....the Unions are busy putting final touches on a strike set for tuesday afternoon I guess the Union already has read the crystal ball that Wedof will side with UA AGAIN.....Im buyin my set of leather gloves today so I dont gettem splinters in me fingers.
Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.
Rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 192 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7086 times:
Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 10): Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.
AirWales From UK - Wales, joined Oct 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5664 times:
He is just trying to say that this aircraft uses late 80's technology as you put it and look at how that aircraft is doing. It is a relevant point as it justifies his argument.
FRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2316 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 1): Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.
So is the 737 (60's, 70's, 80's)
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak."
A3xx900 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5310 times:
Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH. Ordering A346s makes sense to me, since they only have A330s and A340s in their long haul fleet. Remember that the A380 will arrive soon, so why keep the Boeing black sheep?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 14): Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH.
With LH's fleet size, the commonality thing is not nearly the same argument
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
PyroGX41487 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2716 times:
This is the same reason why I think the 747ADV is dead in the water... it would cost too much to upgrade it to 7E7 standards without creating an entirely new design.
Everyone likes the 747 because it is "the Queen of the Skies" and all that... come on, even Queens have to die sometime.
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