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Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?  
User currently offlineTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

I just looked through the 747 production list & noticed that UA had ordered 7 Boeing 747-400s in the late 1990s that were actually never built. Construction numbers are 28814 to 28820, regos N128UA to N134UA. The same goes for LH in 2002. There are 4 747s (c/n 33097 to 33433, D-ABTM to D-ABTP). Sorry if this has been discussed before but why were the orders cancelled? LH got the A340-600 not too long after this. Was this the replacement?

Thomas

[Edited 2005-05-29 20:13:27]

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9121 times:

Combination of factors.

After 9/11, UA did not need the capacity.
LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet and probably got a good deal from Airbus for their 346's to boot.

Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineGodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).

Max


User currently offlineTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

Quoting GodBless (Reply 4):
The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).

Thanks Max for the infos. This is what I wanted to know.

Thomas

[Edited 2005-05-29 22:45:37]

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

LH was looking at 4 additional B 747-400s before 9.11. A pity that everything was cancelled after 9.11. They do not need the capacity. And they have already ordered the A 380. Besides they already have a large B 747-400 fleet

Hope they will order the B 747 Advanced.

UA changed their 7 B 747-400 orders to B 777-200ERs way before 9.11


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2080 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

BA is another airline that cancelled 747-400s. It is one of the reasons that its 777-236ERs are Rolls Royce powered, as the 747-436s BA still had on order were to bee RR powered, so when they were cancelled and replaced by 777s, BA wanted to avoid having to pay out to RR for the cancelled engines. As it was the 16 777-236ERs allowed the 16 747-236Bs to be replaced, while the cancelled 747-436s were part of a capacity cut.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8525 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet

Yeah, because 744s are radial engined props that fly 300 kts

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

A late 1980's technology that flies faster, holds more passengers and is more efficient on a seat-mile basis than any other aircraft in service



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the A320  scratchchin 


User currently offlineUALramperORD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8463 times:

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 1):
UA is probably going to be history in the next 72 hours if managment doesnt get serious about collective barginning....the Unions are busy putting final touches on a strike set for tuesday afternoon I guess the Union already has read the crystal ball that Wedof will side with UA AGAIN.....Im buyin my set of leather gloves today so I dont gettem splinters in me fingers.

Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8198 times:

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 10):
Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.

Here is an update for you......

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...5/28/BUGV4CVUVV1.DTL&type=business



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineN867BX From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Yeah, because 744s are radial engined props that fly 300 kts

I believe your data on the 744 is a bit inaccurate, only the older 747's had radial engines.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7752 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
So is the A320

Which is relevant to this thread or ... or what was your reason for posting this?


User currently offlineAirWales From UK - Wales, joined Oct 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

He is just trying to say that this aircraft uses late 80's technology as you put it and look at how that aircraft is doing. It is a relevant point as it justifies his argument.

User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6606 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 1):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the 737 (60's, 70's, 80's)



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineA3xx900 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6422 times:

Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH. Ordering A346s makes sense to me, since they only have A330s and A340s in their long haul fleet. Remember that the A380 will arrive soon, so why keep the Boeing black sheep?


Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6393 times:

Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 14):
Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH.

With LH's fleet size, the commonality thing is not nearly the same argument



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2385 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 13):
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 1):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the 737 (60's, 70's, 80's)

Yeah, well... this thread is about 747's, not 737's..


User currently offlinePyroGX41487 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

This is the same reason why I think the 747ADV is dead in the water... it would cost too much to upgrade it to 7E7 standards without creating an entirely new design.

Everyone likes the 747 because it is "the Queen of the Skies" and all that... come on, even Queens have to die sometime.


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