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The EU Flag On Airliners  
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

In recent times I have viewed planes on my travels in Europe and have observed that while some European Union airlines display the EU flag on their aircraft, it is far from universal. For example AF, AZ and OA display the flag on all of their planes but LH and BD display it on only a few of their planes. No planes of BA or VS have the flag and I noticed no such flag on virtually all Spanish planes.

So, what are the rules (if any) concerning the use of the EU flag on aircraft? Also, why is there such varying participation among the region's airlines? All comments are welcome in advance.

TrintoCan.


Hop to it, fly for life!
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

There isn't a rule about having any flag on your aircraft, as far as I know (I think Switzerland requires it). BD used to have the EU flag on one side of the aircraft's nose, and the Union Flag on the other side. I don't know why BA never put the EU flag on, or VS for that matter, they probably don't want to bring down the wrath of the Daily Mail on their heads, most likely. I think BA once put a tiny EU flag by the door of one of their aircraft, when some EU bigwig was flying, poss. Romano Prodi or some such.

User currently offlineYukonTrader From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
There isn't a rule about having any flag on your aircraft,

The question which aircraft have to fly the flag is usually a matter of national law of the state in which the aircraft is registered. Historically, the basic idea is the century-old rule of the sea requiring each vessel to fly the proper flag of its home state. This internationally recognized concept was adopted in the pioneering days of aviation.

I recall that most (if not all) countries require that some or all of their aircraft fly the flag. Some countries require that any aircraft registered with them is required to fly a flag - my home turf Switzerland being one of them. In other countries the rule might only apply to aircraft travelling abroad, or to aircraft in commercial services. And then there's even the few states where aircraft that will never travel abroad do not even have to display the national prefix in their registration (helicopters & general aviation in New Zealand come to mind here).

Many EU states allow operators to fly the EU flag besides their national flag, but as aircraft are still required to be registered in the individual member states, there is no common European registration, and I consider flying the 12 stars of the EU is rather for political or marketing reasons than for an official purpose.

Additional input welcome, and put me right if I was trying to sum it up too generally...

Lukas
Edited for a typo

[Edited 2005-05-30 13:05:01]

User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5210 times:

easyJet is a very good example of this... They always use to have the Union Jack on their aircraft next to registration number but this has changed to the EU Flag in the last year.

I suppose this is reflect there European Network as they are no longer exclusively a UK Carrier, despite the fact they are based in the UK and trade on the London Stock Exchange. I always think its a shame when an airline looses it identity.

I hope to god British Airways, Virgin Atlantic and BMI will continue to display the Union Jack. I suppose I am not the most Pro-European person but is nice for an airline to display where it orginated from and not that anonymous EU flag.


User currently offlineACdreamliner From UK - Scotland, joined May 2005, 520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
BD used to have the EU flag on one side of the aircraft's nose, and the Union Flag on the other side.

They still do, as do Baby



Where are you going?
User currently offlineTackleberry970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

The individual nations of Europe have surrendered their national pride and sovereignty to be a part of "The Union." If that makes them happy, let them.

Personally, the Old Glory best never come off our American planes. Too many men have died for what Old Glory stands for as well as protecting all the other nations of this world (some who are pretty good ingrates about the US soldiers sacrifice on their behalf) to surrender her to some "new world order" image.

And yes, I type this on our national holiday, Memorial Day. Thank you soldiers and your families for your sacrifice to help keep Freedom alive in this world!

Tac.


User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

Gilesdavies,

What identity has Easyjet lost by putting the EU flag on the aircraft. Nothing, because unlike many Brits, easyjet has accepted that they are not only British, but European.

I still have trouble understanding why most english have a problem with this. Did they not fight for Europe in the War, or was that only for Britain? Or do you change depending on how convenient it is or economically beneficial like the Americans?

I know i am going to get bashed for this, but please look at the logic? Someone has to ask thee questions. I would like to know.

Kind regards,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)



I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
User currently offlineTackleberry970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

QM001,

To become part of the EU, a nation basically has to give up its sovereignty. They have to suspect their currency in place of the Euro, they surrender their judicial rights to the "International Court", they basically give up their independence to be a Union-nation.

Yes, Europeans fought in the war. But, without the assistance of the US, Hitler would have taken over it all. And, like the French, who have thousands of US war dead interred in their soil, they stab us in the back every opportunity they get.

I don't want to turn this into a political unrest thing on the airliners board, but it is simple that when you remove your national flag and place the EU flag on your aircraft (just like when a soldier removes their national flag for the stupid UN flag on their uniform) you surrender your national sovereignty and identity to the collective organization. It really is that plain and simple.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 6):
And yes, I type this on our national holiday, Memorial Day. Thank you soldiers and your families for your sacrifice to help keep Freedom alive in this world!

Amen, brother.

Quoting QM001 (Reply 7):
I still have trouble understanding why most english have a problem with this. Did they not fight for Europe in the War, or was that only for Britain? Or do you change depending on how convenient it is or economically beneficial like the Americans?

If you don't understand it by now, you never will.

When the United States adds a state, we place another star on our flag. This tells the new state, they are equil with all the states that were admitted before them. But the EU flag only has 12 stars on it, representing the 12 original countries that formed the European Union. The problem I see now is the EU currently has 25 states. So the last 13 states admitted are not worthy of having a new flag designed? Now that's equality.  eyepopping 


User currently offlineTackleberry970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

KC135TopBoom,

You are most welcome. I wear a uniform, but one of a police officer. I was never in the military, but I thank everyone who has been.

And from your monicer, what's a hard working civilian in the states able to do to get a ride on one of those beauties? I have always wanted to hitch a ride on a refueling flight.

You don't need to even entertain an answer to that last part...just wishful thinking on my part.


User currently offlineSk945 From Sweden, joined May 2002, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Tackelberry970
It's not entirely true that a state within EU have to give up everything. Of curse there are trade regulations etc, but stil you could use your flag, your own currency if you want too and the people of France yesterday voted no too the new constituion of EU. Wish I guess will happen in most EU countries having a referendom abou it.

And to the topic. In Sweden it's up to the airline to chose if they would like to put the Swedish flag or / and the EU flag on there planes. No law.


User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
And yes, I type this on our national holiday, Memorial Day. Thank you soldiers and your families for your sacrifice to help keep Freedom alive in this world!

Amen, brother.

Yes, keeping Freedom alive and creating justice-free places like Guantanamo. Great.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
When the United States adds a state, we place another star on our flag. This tells the new state, they are equal with all the states that were admitted before them. But the EU flag only has 12 stars on it, representing the 12 original countries that formed the European Union. The problem I see now is the EU currently has 25 states. So the last 13 states admitted are not worthy of having a new flag designed? Now that's equality.

How many states are the United States planning to add during the next years? The European Union just added 8 states last year and is going to add more during the next years. New flags, new coins, new signs and so on every few years? (and yes, quantity- and thereby moneywise this is not the same as hundred years ago) If that's not naive, I don't know what is.

The 12 Stars are now seen as a symbol for the European Idea, not as symbols for the 12 initial states. To quote you:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
If you don't understand it by now, you never will.

exactly.

Ciao
Daniel


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

erm, guys, this kinda political debate is not what this thread was all about - it was a simple question of flags on aircraft. can people please keep their inflammatory and at time offensive political views to more appropriate forums. thanks.

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

When BA dropped the union flag from their planes with the introduction of the controversial mixed tailfins around 7 yrs ago, VS immediatly replaces the red flag thing covering the girl on the nose of their planes with the union flag in response.

The union flag is usually incorrectly refered to as the union jack, but infact it is only a union jack when its raised on a ship.


User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4787 times:

I agree with Timboflier215 keep it low

For all that want to know more about the EU Flag check

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_flag


User currently offlineTackleberry970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Dazeflight,

Gitmo...well, shall we talk about Aushwitz then? Every nation can focus on one certain icon. And if you believe all the news about Gitmo as being factual, then you are pretty naive. The media has an agenda and it is "anything Bush related is going to be negative." President Bush could personally pull a poor black woman from a burning building and the news report would be that Bush cut the woman's Social Security, forced her to (fill in the blank) and actually pushed her in the building and Bill Klinton was the real hero who rescued her.

Don't buy what the propagandists spread. Being from Germany, you should know that better then most.

On to part two of your comments,

In 1948, we had a 48 star flag. We then had a very short lived, and limitedly produced, 49 star flag for Alaska because shortly there after, Hawaii was made the 50th state. So, we now have the 50 star flag.

We'll make a 51/52 or 53 star flag if P.R., Guam or US VI ever decide to become states.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 8):
To become part of the EU, a nation basically has to give up its sovereignty. They have to suspect their currency in place of the Euro, they surrender their judicial rights to the "International Court", they basically give up their independence to be a Union-nation.

Yes, Europeans fought in the war. But, without the assistance of the US, Hitler would have taken over it all. And, like the French, who have thousands of US war dead interred in their soil, they stab us in the back every opportunity they get.

I don't want to turn this into a political unrest thing on the airliners board, but it is simple that when you remove your national flag and place the EU flag on your aircraft (just like when a soldier removes their national flag for the stupid UN flag on their uniform) you surrender your national sovereignty and identity to the collective organization. It really is that plain and simple.

What the hell was given in your breakfast this morning? Set off your drugs and you will be welcome in reality. Or is this stupid American nationalism a kind of religion?

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 6):
The individual nations of Europe have surrendered their national pride and sovereignty to be a part of "The Union." If that makes them happy, let them.

Nonsense, and I have yet to see a post from a european that agrees with you.

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 8):
To become part of the EU, a nation basically has to give up its sovereignty. They have to suspect their currency in place of the Euro, they surrender their judicial rights to the "International Court", they basically give up their independence to be a Union-nation.

But half of the 25 states are not using the euro currency. It is a matter of choice. Most of the 15 countries that could have introduced the euro on jan 1st 2002 had public refforendums, and they voted to abolish their traditional currencys in favour for the euro. The european laws are wide ranging and have little bearing on individual citizens.

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 8):
It really is that plain and simple

Maybe it is you who is plain and simple.


By the way the EU flag will probably be changed to reflect the new countries.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4731 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
By the way the EU flag will probably be changed to reflect the new countries.

No, the number of the stars has nothing to do with the number of states. We didn`t copy so much from our American friends. Take a look on this link, mentioned above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_flag

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 19):
No, the number of the stars has nothing to do with the number of states. We didn`t copy so much from our American friends. Take a look on this link, mentioned above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea..._flag

The euro currency is going to be re-minted to show the new members on its map. A few yrs ago a new flag design was seriously considered (see link) but was not adopted. The idea has not gone away and I feel that the flag will ultimatly be replaced.

The proposed new EU flag:

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgur...rt%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

as i think the thread-starters question has been answered, how about people back off issues they clearly have no knowledge of, and end these personal and political attacks - this is an airline discussion forum, not a political one. this thread should now be deleted!

User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

EI321
The European flag was the flag for the Council of Europe, which btw. included e.g. the Soviet Union. It had nothing to do with the EU. It`s a fixed design which was taken over later. I read somewhere that the design is even older than the Council. I try to find out, who had designed it.

Yes the maps on Euro bills and coins will be changed in the near future.

The barcode is funny and by some reasons, it makes sense.  scratchchin 

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Quoting Tackleberry970 (Reply 6):
The individual nations of Europe have surrendered their national pride and sovereignty to be a part of "The Union." If that makes them happy, let them

You have apparently forgotten that every sovereign state within the US has surrendered a part of its sovereignty to be part of the Union...
One can be proud of the EU flag without feeling their national pride is being threatened. Just ask any Texan whether they are proud of Texas and its flag, the US and its flag or both.

I say good on those carriers who put the EU flag on their aircraft.


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

KLM

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Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 23):
One can be proud of the EU flag without feeling their national pride is being threatened.

Or one can be proud of Europe as it was in history (and I mean the history of the last 3000 years, with all the good and bad things, which happened) and the nation, as a union of nations, which it perhaps could be in some decades.

Axel

[Edited 2005-05-30 23:02:51]

[Edited 2005-05-30 23:03:52]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
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