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Chance Of JetBlue Landing At CAK?  
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 23
Posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

With all the problems CLE is having with landing new carriers, protecting CO, and not enough gates space, I raise the question. Do you think B6 may choose Akron-Canton?

My wish list:
CAK-JFK 3 daily E190
CAK-FLL 1 daily E190 (though FL does Sat. service and FLL needs gates)
*** CAK-OAK 1 DAILY E190 (major wish I know)

ASSFO


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3377 times:
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Well IMHO I could see this happening for just the reasons you mention. Though if B6 ends up flying from PIT first then I really do not see CAK happening. I do see them going into DAY and not taking on DL in CVG, also see them in CMH as well.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJMC1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3269 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

With the new JFK-BUR service, it's a high likelihood....for a tech stop.  Smile


.......
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Actually, in talking with some B6 employees in CLE, they have plans to go into both CAK and CLE. I don't know exactly which routes, but I doubt they'd be overlapping routes. CAK could possibly get NYC service, while CLE gets FLA service, or visa-versa.

But both airports are on the B6 wish-list.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Wow falcon...that knocked me off my chair. Both, thats very unexpected! I would love to see it though. Luv2fly, you make a great point with PIT and being so close to CAK. But if CLE and CAK are on the wish-list, maybe they will be at all 3 airports. JMC, LMAO......BUR-CAK-JFK service! BRILLIANT!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25169 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Actually, in talking with some B6 employees in CLE

What employees does B6 have in CLE - and why?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
What employees does B6 have in CLE - and why?

Not sure what he means, but he didn't say they were B6 employees WORKING in CLE. They could have been just passing through. One can only hope they were here in negotiations with Mok and Szabo. bouncy 

With the US/HP merger, plus the uncertainty surrounding Indy Air's future, there should be a gate or two in A open soon. Therefore, the only think that would stop B6 is another CLE moment of idiocy. I could see B6 even having overlapping flights with CAK, say 1x from CAK, 3x from CLE to JFK, etc. Remember, though, with FL's LGA, BOS and Florida service, B6 may not fancy going into heavy competition with another LCC on nearly identical routes. That being said, I think B6 will most likely come to CAK in some fashion (I'm sure Krum will come close to paying B6 to come), say at 75% odds, and give them 50-50 odds on coming to CLE.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25169 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3194 times:
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Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 6):
he didn't say they were B6 employees WORKING in CLE.

I didn't assume they were working - although I'm not sure why else they would be there. Even negotiating is "working".  Smile

But I am having a problem with the concept of B6 (or anyone) serving both CLE and CAK.

It would double the cost of ground staff and I find it hard to believe that the passenger catchment area for each airport is so markedly different.

If nothing else, I would think potential passengers would get very, very confused - they can get confused enough when an airline operates out of two terminals at one airport.

There's a fuss with Frontier at ANC - they fly out of one terminal, while the different, feeder airline, Frontier Flying Service, operates out of another. Many pax have turned up at the big Frontier expecting to fly an Airbus to Fort Yukon. Or at the little Frontier expecting to fly a 1900D to DEN.

But, anything's possible, so if JetBlue do serve CLE and CAK I'm sure that's great for spotters. I can't think who else would benefit.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3182 times:
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Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 6):
With the US/HP merger, plus the uncertainty surrounding Indy Air's future, there should be a gate or two in A open soon. Therefore, the only think that would stop B6 is another CLE moment of idiocy. I could see B6 even having overlapping flights with CAK, say 1x from CAK, 3x from CLE to JFK, etc. Remember, though, with FL's LGA, BOS and Florida service, B6 may not fancy going into heavy competition with another LCC on nearly identical routes. That being said, I think B6 will most likely come to CAK in some fashion (I'm sure Krum will come close to paying B6 to come), say at 75% odds, and give them 50-50 odds on coming to CLE.

I could very much see CLE airport officials screwing this up, also I can see CAK being very aggressive to get B6 and CLE not being aggressive enough and go after them.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
I could very much see CLE airport officials screwing this up, also I can see CAK being very aggressive to get B6 and CLE not being aggressive enough and go after them.

But remember. Mok was not around during some of the earlier snafus. They have brought in some pros since some of the major screw ups, though some responsible, plus the idiot City Council are still there. They did get Indy Air.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I didn't assume they were working - although I'm not sure why else they would be there.

By saying "does B6" made it sound like you meant B6 had them there for work. Sorry. But is it that foreign that someone would actually want to visit Cleveland for pleasure or family? We have a few things besides work to offer here in Cleveland.  wink 

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
But I am having a problem with the concept of B6 (or anyone) serving both CLE and CAK.

NW, DL, and US serve both, although via regional affiliates. Many to the south and east of Cleveland prefer CAK as it just as close or closer for them.



"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 9):
Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I didn't assume they were working - although I'm not sure why else they would be there.

By saying "does B6" made it sound like you meant B6 had them there for work. Sorry. But is it that foreign that someone would actually want to visit Cleveland for pleasure or family? We have a few things besides work to offer here in Cleveland.

Some people live in other places and fly to work at B6. I know pilots based in Tennessee or something for NW and they live in Virginia Beach and fly to work,a nd I have heard many stories about people flying to work.


CAK and CLE will never happen. CLE will screw up and drive them away and if the do go to CAK they will be in direct competition with FL which may or may not work. FL has to offer LGA being closer but no IFE and cramed seats B6 is the opposite so it might balance out(B6 seats are bigger but not by ALOT).

CAK/CLE will be off in the next couple of years thought.


 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

From what I've heard, B6 was already in CLE negotiating and has already chosen which of the 2 to serve (CAK vs. CLE), however I was not told the outcome of their decision. Basically it's just wait and see. Something tells me it's CLE, though, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineXlpants From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

FL loads to/from LGA and BOS have dropped like a rock since Simplifares hit CLE.
B6 will go to CLE where the real demand is!


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25169 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3042 times:
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Quoting Xlpants (Reply 12):
B6 will go to CLE where the real demand is!

Interesting. Frontier seems happy with demand from CAK - to the point of adding DAY to their network:

Frontier CEO Potter: "Strong bookings for our new Akron/Canton service emboldened us to look toward adding more cities in Ohio," said Potter. "Dayton is the fifth largest metropolitan market without non-stop service to Denver so we saw a great opportunity to bring service to the West and Mexico to an underserved market, which is an ideal situation for Frontier.""

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Actually, in talking with some B6 employees in CLE, they have plans to go into both CAK and CLE. I don't know exactly which routes, but I doubt they'd be overlapping routes. CAK could possibly get NYC service, while CLE gets FLA service, or visa-versa.

But both airports are on the B6 wish-list.

no offense but how many time have we heard, " I heard B6 is planning on serving (blank) airport soon"? PIT, PVD, MHT, MIA ORD, MDW... all have been mentioned not to forget the countless city pairs BOS-JFK, BUF-FLL and on and on, I'm not knocking the idea but I would just like to point out this is not some new phrase we've heard about B6 and a city. and none of the mentioned cities or city pairs have yet to be announced...
Cheers!


User currently offlineXlpants From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Frontier seems happy with demand from CAK - to the point of adding DAY to their network

Two airports negatively influenced by Simplifares. Potter and his planners were looking at old data from last year and were seeing all this wonderful artificial growth due to high fares at CVG and CLE. Traffic is now finding it's way back to where the demand really is!


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25169 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2994 times:
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Quoting Xlpants (Reply 15):
Potter and his planners were looking at old data from last year and were seeing all this wonderful artificial growth due to high fares at CVG and CLE.

Sorry, I don't understand that. Are you saying that CEO Potter and his planners have not seen good bookings for Frontier out of CAK?

I think they would know what their bookings are like.

And are they starting a second route to Ohio - before their first has started - because of last year's data? But - they weren't flying to Ohio last year.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
What employees does B6 have in CLE - and why?

You see B6 pilots in CLE all the time, probably from the area, and Jump-seating, usually to JFK, to go back to work. I've seen a lot of them in their blue tops in CLE.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
I could very much see CLE airport officials screwing this up

Not as likely as it was a few years back, when Mike White had political hacks running Hopkins. John Mok has been involved in major airports-HKG and DFW come right to mind, and he won't swing and miss like those political appointees would.

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 10):
CLE will screw up and drive them away

Again, Mok is no hack, and he won't "screw up", as you say. B6 could take CAK over CLE, possibly because of gate space, but the days where CLE deliberately ran off airlines is probably gone for good.


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 9):
But remember. Mok was not around during some of the earlier snafus... They did get Indy Air.

Independence Air was already at CLE as Atlantic Coast Airlines, doing business as both United Express and Delta Connection. The people who negotiated for gate space, landing fees, etc., already knew what CLE was like from past experience. I wouldn't say CLE "attracted" Indy Air... Indy Air simply remained at CLE under its new name.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2908 times:
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Quoting Redngold (Reply 18):
Independence Air was already at CLE as Atlantic Coast Airlines, doing business as both United Express and Delta Connection. The people who negotiated for gate space, landing fees, etc., already knew what CLE was like from past experience. I wouldn't say CLE "attracted" Indy Air... Indy Air simply remained at CLE under its new name.


redngold

I have to agree with this! I still do not hold out much faith in CLE officials attracting new airlines, this might be where the business is though it is not where the welcome is.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

I don't see B6 coming to either airport with JFK service. There's already a ton of seats to both EWR and JFK. FL carriers more pax per day CAK-LGA than CO does CLE-LGA now. The numbers were posted in an Akron Beacon Journal article when the CAK-LAS service was started. Word among the FL employees at CAK that I know is that the LAS service came earlier than expected, because FL was afraid F9 would start it if the DEN service got off to a good start. FL could go daily CAK-FLL overnight if the needed to keep B6 out of the market. Word is that FL will have 3 of the 5 new gates at CAK. I think there's more "low hanging fruit" for B6 to pick off at CLE than at CAK.

User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Quoting Xlpants (Reply 12):
B6 will go to CLE where the real demand is!

Interesting. Frontier seems happy with demand from CAK - to the point of adding DAY to their network:

Frontier CEO Potter: "Strong bookings for our new Akron/Canton service emboldened us to look toward adding more cities in Ohio," said Potter. "Dayton is the fifth largest metropolitan market without non-stop service to Denver so we saw a great opportunity to bring service to the West and Mexico to an underserved market, which is an ideal situation for Frontier.""

cheers

mariner

The difference is, Jetblue turns a profit and Frontier doesn't.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Again, Mok is no hack, and he won't "screw up", as you say. B6 could take CAK over CLE, possibly because of gate space, but the days where CLE deliberately ran off airlines is probably gone for good

What Mok needs to do is fix the customs area so Continental can fly more international flights to CLE.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2875 times:
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Quoting CLE757 (Reply 22):
What Mok needs to do is fix the customs area so Continental can fly more international flights to CLE.

YES! It is so backwards and a true awful experience.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAirDude66 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

There is a political side to this. CAK airport management is in the hip pocket of FL. FL operations here are heavily protected. US had discussed CAK-LGA service and the airport managed to "politically" squash the idea. Same thing occured when NW had discussed adding CAK-BOS CRJ service. B6 would be in direct competition with FL and the Airport authority will not permit this. Keep in mind CAK is not a "public" managed airport.

25 Qantas777 : about, lets say, 72.5%
26 Falcon84 : I was talking to our Assistant director of customer service, and told him I'm working on an idea for that very thing. Who knows if they'll listen to
27 CLE757 : I had the idea of tearing down the express hanger and building a international arrivals buidling there, that way the passengers would have easy acces
28 Mariner : And good morning to you. Again. I am confused by your post. Please explain how the fact Frontier did not turn a profit this year - as opposed to last
29 DAYFL : Xplants, How is CAK's or DAY's growth artificial. I know you have a bias, but everything within a 50 nautical mile radius of your airport is fare game
30 TOLtommy : Lets address these one by one... 1. Yes, US did "discuss" CAK-LGA service, but only AFTER AirTran had announced it. In all the years that US was the
31 MAH4546 : You are confusing CLE with CVG and CAK with DAY. Simplifares are a Delta thing, not Continental. They have been hurting things at Dayton, although la
32 DeltaMIA : Both of which have mainline service from CVG. At least MIA has for now before it goes to all RJ's in Sep. So I doubt any CVG passengers will be going
33 Xlpants : Tell that to Continental and the rest of the industry! No confusion. CLE fares have dropped to LGA and BOS (because of Simplifares). FL loads to LGA
34 N766UA : There's definately demand for CAK, too. Simplifares or not. FL is filling planes and people are coming back for more.
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