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VS For The 747ADV?  
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

I don't mean soon of course. Their accounting will be tied up for a while with the A380. But when their 744s go, they'll only have A346s and A380s. There's quite a gap in between. Since the 747ADV is the only true 744 replacement, wouldn't VS be likely to go for it when the time comes.

They seem to like a quad fleet. All their types are quads. How soon until they give that up or are they likely to stick with it until manufacturers stop offering quads for the aircraft they want (which will happen soon if the A350 is any indication)?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Possible. They might want to replace their B 747-400s with B 747 Advanced when the B 747-400s are due for replacement.

Earlier they were looking at some B 747-400s at low price. Perhaps Boeing can sell them a few with heavy discounts?


User currently offlineMika10021 From Greece, joined Jul 2004, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

I doudt they will get it.The have 6 A380s and a lot of A346.The only way I see that happening is if they sell the A380 to Boeing.

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

I think a A380, 747ADV and 346 fleet would be great!

You need a middle man between the 388 and 346, the 747ADV would be a great option providing Boeing launch it?

Rob!


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
Earlier they were looking at some B 747-400s at low price. Perhaps Boeing can sell them a few with heavy discounts?

Hmm. Maybe VS could be key to the 744 production line problem that endangers the 747ADV.

Quoting Mika10021 (Reply 2):
.The only way I see that happening is if they sell the A380 to Boeing.

Well as I said, it doesn't have to be soon. I know the acquisition of A380s is dominating things right now, but maybe things will be more likely later on.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting Glom (Thread starter):
But when their 744s go, they'll only have A346s and A380s. There's quite a gap in between. Since the 747ADV is the only true 744 replacement, wouldn't VS be likely to go for it when the time comes.

They will most likely just use mixed frequencies of A346 and A388 to compensate. They do not require a direct 744 replacement, per say.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7064 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
They will most likely just use mixed frequencies of A346 and A388 to compensate. They do not require a direct 744 replacement, per say.

Although I would love to see the 747Adv being launched and getting as much customers as possible I think you are correct.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

There is a huge gap between the A346 (and 777) and the A380, and thats what the 747ADV is all about, if Boeing decides to launch it. I am sure that Virgin will take a good look at the 747A; every airline that currently operates the 744 will evaluate the 747A to determine what makes the most sense for its route system.

User currently offlineVS747SPUR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

What do you people think will replace these 747-400 that will go at somepoint ? VS put their poorer aircraft on the LGW routes (i.e not as good entertainment systems etc) and I am pretty certain these LGW based 747s will not be replaced with new planes. Does anyone think they will be replaced by VS's current A346's ?

Many thanks
VS747SPUR



Fly DL
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

These B 747-400s will not be replaced anytime soon I am sure.

Wonder if they can put the B 747-400 on the LHR-HKG-SYD run once they have more aircraft so that they can solve the overbooking problem on the LHR-HKG

The B 747 Advanced fills in the gap between the A 380 and the A 340-600


User currently offlineLockheed1011 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Most likely!

It is the perfect aircraft for VS. Also, Virgin Atlantic always goes for the newest equipment and state of the art fleet.

When the 747ADV comes out, VS will order it!  Smile


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 10):
Also, Virgin Atlantic always goes for the newest equipment and state of the art fleet.

... they passed on the 777-300ER, which by nearly all comparisons applicable to VS, is a superior aircraft to the A346.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

VS might get the proposed B747Adv if they get a very good deal on it. VS is very cost sensitive and if the cost is right then everything is possible. But the LGW-based B744s are fairly new - circa 2001, and also some destinations can get the A380, provided the airports are able to handle it. Certainly, MCO can support the A380, traffic-wise that is.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

What's the difference between the LGW based ones and the LHR based ones?

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
What's the difference between the LGW based ones and the LHR based ones?

Configuration, Upper Class seats and entertainment systems. The Premium Economy seats in the LGW B747 are on the upper deck, while in the LHR B747 they are both in the upper deck and lower one as some of the upper deck is used for Upper Class to provide the so called Snooze Zone, which is used for pax that would like to just sleep and not have any meal or drink service.

The new UCS is being introduced in the LGW Boeing fleet. T

The major difference is in the number of seats in the different classes. I forgot the actual numbers but www.v-flyer.com should be able to answer that for you.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
... they passed on the 777-300ER, which by nearly all comparisons applicable to VS, is a superior aircraft to the A346.

As I said, maybe it's because they like quads.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 10):
Also, Virgin Atlantic always goes for the newest equipment and state of the art fleet.

Not really. For most of their life they have flown second-hand 747-100s and -200s. Many (all?) of their A340-300s were second hand too. Their first new planes were their 747-400s. Agreed, since then, they have bought new but that hasn't always been the case. Ten years ago they were still taking old CX and NZ 747-200s.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
... they passed on the 777-300ER, which by nearly all comparisons applicable to VS, is a superior aircraft to the A346.

Evidently they came to a different conclusion having ordered the A340-600 not once but twice.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 16):
Evidently they came to a different conclusion having ordered the A340-600 not once but twice.

Didn't they get their first A346s before the 773ER came out?


User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Don't think B sales team has a lot of time for Virgin, just like some in the finance industry, although with the Singapore connection that may be at there peril. Hard to find tougher negotiators, although Singapore and Emirates are probably a bit better at it.

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting Glom (Thread starter):
They seem to like a quad fleet. All their types are quads

The 773ER would never have worked for this reason - VS advertising slogan

4 engines 4 long haul

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
... they passed on the 777-300ER, which by nearly all comparisons applicable to VS, is a superior aircraft to the A346.



Quoting PM (Reply 16):
Evidently they came to a different conclusion having ordered the A340-600 not once but twice.

Price might have something to do with it.  Wink Yes, the B-777-300ER is a lot better than the A-340-600. But, that really isn't a consideration for some airlines. The bottom line means a lot, esspiecially if you can get big discounts. Then you can afford to buy a lower effecient aircraft. By the time the two operating costs lines intersect, you could have years of operating time.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 17):
Didn't they get their first A346s before the 773ER came out?

I'm sure you're right. Boeing took their first orders for the 773ER in March 2000. The A346 first flew in 2001 and VS put the first plane into service in, when, 2003? But did VS order the A346 before Boeing had launched the 773ER? I suspect they did. If so, then "they passed on the 773ER" (the original comment to which I was responding) certainly isn't true since it hadn't been launched.


User currently offlinePixuk From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3365 times:

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 10):
When the 747ADV comes out, VS will order it!

I doubt it. Virgin are heading for an all-Airbus fleet at LHR, moving all their 747 operations to LGW and MAN. Their LGW and MAN operations are pretty much all Bucket & Spade routes, with higher density configurations than their LHR aircraft. They have little problem filling those seats due to their Virgin Holidays (Virgin Vacations in the US) arm. Once the 747s approach retirement (which is a long way off, since most aren't that old), the natural step would be to move A380s across from Heathrow (and piling in some more economy seats!).

Pete


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
Price might have something to do with it. Wink Yes, the B-777-300ER is a lot better than the A-340-600. But, that really isn't a consideration for some airlines. The bottom line means a lot, esspiecially if you can get big discounts. Then you can afford to buy a lower effecient aircraft. By the time the two operating costs lines intersect, you could have years of operating time.

That's all true, except that it is not the up front price per se that counts, but rather the expected deprecation over the operating life of the aircraft, adjusted for the future value of money. In other words, expected resale value plays into the equation as well as current purchase price.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
But did VS order the A346 before Boeing had launched the 773ER? I suspect they did.

Yes, they ordered the A346 long before the 777LR was launched. They reevaluated both aircraft in 2003 but stayed with the A346.


25 Post contains images A340600 : I don't see them replaced for a long time yet. Most of the LGW based 744's were the cancelled AZ order and built in 2001. Plus, as has already been s
26 Post contains images Birdbrainz : Branson loves to make statements about how Virgin supports the EU and buys Airbus, and BA doesn't. ANY Boeing order undermines this. Regarding VS and
27 Glom : So the future will be determined by how well Branson maintains his credibility. Therefore, if Virgin Galactic fails, VS will buy the 747ADV. If it su
28 VS74741R : The reason for most of their aircraft being second hand is that they are a young airline and most airlines that start up use second hand aircraft. Vi
29 Stoney : How exactly is the 744 production line endangering the 747ADV? I guess the 747ADV would kill the 744 line, but how come the older one can be a threat
30 Post contains images Birdbrainz : Mr Branson is a businessman first and foremost, so if there's a gain to be made by flying a certain aircraft, be it a 777 or a Cessna 172, he'll do i
31 Glom : It shutting down is the problem. If Boeing can't keep the line open until the 747ADV is ready, it will be very costly and make them thing twice about
32 Theredbaron : BA will order whatever Boeing produces with the prefix 74, they have been pushing boeing for years for a newer version of the JumboJet, if BA orders i
33 Post contains images VS11 : Virgin does not own aircraft but leases them so they are not really reselling them and thus resale price does not matter. Not to mention that probabl
34 Zvezda : The B747Adv would be built on the same line as the B747-400. It would be very costly to put it in mothballs and then restart it.
35 UA747400 : Since the 747Adv would have a longer range than the 747-400 would VS add more locations?
36 United Airline : Hopefully. Hope to see a VS B 747 in HKG soon
37 Post contains images PM : Absolutely. It always does. Careful. It's not so long ago that Air Canada was heading for an all-Airbus fleet. Things change! Branson is sly and cann
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