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Will KUL Ever Become A Hub?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

KLIA is a very nice and modern airport. Even more advanced than Singapore Changi International Airport I think.

However it seems that no body wants to fly there and KUL is not a hub for anyone except MH. Also it is underused

Does anyone know why? Is there a chance that it will ever become a hub like SIN? Or even surpass SIN?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

Air Asia has its whole fleet ( 20 B737-300 at the moment, ordered 40 A320s already ) based there.


Jet Visuals
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Guess MH dominates the entire KUL for long haul service.

Wonder if we will see NW, AF, BA, QF etc back in KUL.

LH pulled out and it is back now


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4100 times:

Maybe QF does not fly to KUL anymore because on the SYD-KUL route there's already a MH 772 service, codesharing with KL; and also the Austrian ( opt by NG ) 772 service continuing to VIE. Just not enough demand for a 3rd airline I guess.


Jet Visuals
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

Heard that Australian Airlines plans to return to KUL. Can anyone confirm that?

User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

KLM uses KUL as a transfer airport for flight to SYD and MEL. Anytime you want to fly to Australia with KLM, they direct you through KUL where you then connect on a MH flight to Australia.
Regards,
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
However it seems that no body wants to fly there and KUL is not a hub for anyone except MH

Uh.... Think Again!

Malaysia Airlines is a regional hubs, and has an airport that makes Changi blush! KLIA, is an incredible airport and is served by a great number of airlines, to an immense number of destinations. Inclusive of the only connection from South America to Asia.

KLIA Current Roster if Airlines:

.... Air Asia

.... Air India

.... Air Mauritius

.... Asiana Airlines

.... Austrian Airlines

.... Biman Bangladesh

.... Cathay Pacific

.... China Airlines

.... China Eastern Airlines

.... China Southern Airlines

.... Emirates Airlines

.... Eva Airways Corpration

.... First Cambodia Airlines

.... Garuda Indonesia

.... Gulf Air

.... Indian Airlines Limited

.... Iran Air

.... Japan Airlines International Co. Ltd

.... KLM Royal Dutch Airlines

.... Korean Airlines

.... Lion Airlines

.... Lufthansa German Airlines

.... Malaysia Airlines

.... Merpati Nusantara Airlines

.... Myanmar Airways International

.... Philippines Airlines

.... Qatar Airways

.... Royal Brunei Airlines Sdn Bhd

.... Royal Jordanian Airlines

.... Royal Nepal Airlines

.... Saudi Arabian Airlines

.... Singapore Airlines

.... Sri Lankan Airlines

.... Thai Airways International

.... Uzbekistan Airways

.... Vietnam Airlines

.... Xiamen Airlines

.... Yemenia Yemen Airlines


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):
Malaysia Airlines is a regional hubs, and has an airport that makes Changi blush! KLIA, is an incredible airport and is served by a great number of airlines, to an immense number of destinations.

Really???? I live in Singapore that must be another airport (KLIA) you're talking about. Or is this another EXPERT? opinion????


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 7):
I live in Singapore that must be another airport (KLIA) you're talking about.

The airport at Kuala Lumpur, from this persons stand point is much cleaner and enjoyable than that of Changi. The airport in Singapore, has much to be desired. In addition Malaysia Airlines products as of late are more and more becoming.


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineIntothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Here we go
KLIA 2004: 21,000,000PAX
Changi 2004: 30,353565PAX
BKK 2004: 37,960,169PAX
Ok, as visible, BKK and Changi is still quite a bit ahead of KLIA!
However I must say that KLIA has a chance of expanding rapidly, however BKK, and SIN can as well. All 3 airports are expanding fast, so if KLIA puts a foot down, they can really start to challenge SIN, and BKK.
Even though I live in Malaysia, I still find Changi slightly better in terms of comfort, entertainment etc. than KLIA, however KLIA is a magnificent airport, as well as Malaysia being a magnificent country!
BKK is average, nothing too special, except some good plane spotting places.
Will KUL ever become a hub? YES(If it's not one already)
However i excpect BKK and SIN to expand a lot as well.

Cheers, Konstanin G.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

KLIA is newer. That's for sure.

However, Changi is still a busier airport with a lot more long haul flights. The Malaysian Government hopes to attract more flights from major airlines and they hope to get BA and QF back.

Guess they need to get more awards. Changi has won many awards over the past 20 years and I think in general Changi is a more comfortable/cozy airport. KLIA is more magnificant though....

SIN and BKK are likely to grow quickly


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

Guess KUL has a chance too. But everytime I go, I find the airport pretty empty

The Malaysian Government plans to turn KUL into a major international hub for long haul flights and have BA, QF, AF etc back


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
The airport at Kuala Lumpur, from this persons stand point is much cleaner and enjoyable than that of Changi.

I must have been at a different airport in SIN or a different one in KUL!!!!

For a statistical analysis of the airport's potential take a look at this link. Very interesting and very objective.

http://www.koti.re.kr/project/coop.n...5B49256DF60011213F/$file/Park1.pdf


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

The infrastructure of KUL is more magnificant. Also it is more advanced simply because it is newer.

However, Changi is more comfortable and has won a lot more awards.

Both airports are clean though


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3329 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Folks, you seem to be forgetting one major thing.
An airports performance is largely determined by the economy and other external factors such as tourism.

To argue that one airport is a hub compared to another based on the airport's design, practicality, etc is useless.

SIN, HKG, ORD, FRA, AMS etc are hubs because they operate in cities that are major financial centres.

BKK, FCO, CDG are both tourist centres and major cities.

both SIN and KUL are hubs as far as i'm concerned, as there they generate and serve significant amounts of 'connecting' traffic!


User currently offlineSQuared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
The airport at Kuala Lumpur, from this persons stand point is much cleaner and enjoyable than that of Changi. The airport in Singapore, has much to be desired.

That's probably because KUL is almost empty! On my seven hour layover in KUL, the best way to take a nap, was to head to the main terminal, where there appeared to be only a handful people. It's hard to get an airport dirty, when there aren't that many passengers (compared to SIN).

From my perspective SIN, is much more interesting, with many more things to do. Although SIN is quite busy, it still feels spacious and clean.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 11):

The Malaysian Government plans to turn KUL into a major international hub for long haul flights and have BA, QF, AF etc back

This is what the Malaysian gov't has attempted to do with very low landing fees, even lower than that of SIN! Few airlines have taken the bait though, I wonder why?

SQuared


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3169 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3715 times:

Quoting SQuared (Reply 15):
This is what the Malaysian gov't has attempted to do with very low landing fees, even lower than that of SIN! Few airlines have taken the bait though, I wonder why?

Most probably just a lack of demand. The longer distances, the less the landings fees contribute to the total trip costs. When low landing fees mean that they will pay $5.000 instead of $10.000, it's the difference of one C-class passenger. It's not the same situation as short-haul LCC sectors. For a Ryanair flight HHN-STN, the euro's they save because HHN doesn't charge landing fees, is a huge part of the trip. Not for a 744 CDG-KUL.

Next to that, AF and BA ar both using SIN for their australia-connections. If MH would join Skyteam, it will most likely get a big increase in passenger numbers. Otherwise, it will just follow the growth of the economy.

The Boston Consulting Group (Airports - dawn of a new era; 2004) sees KUL growing to 45 million pax in the next decade. In comparasion, they expect BKK to grow to 100 mio, HKG to 87, ICN to 100. For SIN, they don't have exact figures about expected expansion.


User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Why shouldn't we call KUL already a hub ???

A hub is where an airline is based and offers a network out of it's hub. It doesn't mean to offer as much airlines as possible. An airport with one airline offering over 100 different destinations is a bigger hub than an airport being served by 5 different airlines and being connected to 20 destinations only!



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

For those who sing praises about KLIA's aesthetic attributes, lets not forget that you are comparing something that was built in the 90s to something that has the infrastructure that dates back to the 1970s. Yes, Changi's terminals are nothing much to scream about and are rather staid. But it is not the exterior that wins the hearts of travellers, it is what that is offered within.

Changi
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/sirius_cruiser/100_3432.jpg
Lush greenery and cozy settings greets the weary traveller that spells "WELCOME" with wide open arms. Whenever I arrive home in Changi, I cannot help but beam with pride that this airport truly spells a consistent excellence but without the din of loud drums. Rather, the virtues are laid out quietly and the serenity creeps up on you slowly.

It is the traditional stopover point for traffic between Australia and Europe due to the historical links we have with the British Empire of the past. Although Malaysia was part of the empire as well, much of the trade was routed via Singapore so i guess this is a habit that is hard to break and it is manifested in the way airlines route their network

KLIA

Screams "MODERNITY" from head to toe! A true technological marvel and one of the most beautiful airports to ever have been built on this earth. Many call it a "white elephant", or an airport that is truly ahead of its time. But let's all recollect our senses and turn back time to that dump of a pisshole that was known as Subang. Malaysia NEEDED desperately a new airport that was worthy of an international standing. And they did achieve this, albeit going to the other extreme, by building one that is indeed out of this world.

Natural lighting is allowed to flow in with the help of the generous use of floor to ceiling windows. While the expansive surroundings are indeed awesome with high quality luxurious marble and metal finishings, the Zen-like result might come off as stand-offish or cold at times. This is accentuated by the low traffic volumes at certain times of the day (actually most of the day) giving it a almost sterile and clinical feel. Piped in soothing music might do the trick, which the airside terminal sorely lacks!

So back to the original question, will KLIA ever become a hub? Well, a hub in what sense, one might ask? A stopover point for the Kangaroo route? With the withdrawal of BA and QF, MAS has managed to almost monopolise this route. Other than UK-Australia routes, most traffic into Malaysia seems to be low-yield so airlines might find it a rather challenging scenario to make money from the routes.

Well, KLIA is a hub for the flag carrier MAS (needless to say). And the airline within the last decade has proven to be a serious competitor with its award winning service. It has proven that the airline can overcome adversity and perpetual underdog reputation to rise above competition shouting out loud and proud. That has garnered a lot of attention for the country, and KLIA, by default.

Traffic in Subang wasn't anything to shout about to begin with. Now put that volume and juxtapose it against the seemingly huge amount of space that is KLIA (and increase it by just a bit), it is bound to be a little jarring. However, what they lack in mainline carriers making them a port of call, they make up for it by hosting exotic ones not normally seen in the region like Yemenia and Uzbekistan Airways. I once saw an Air Onur A300 there as well.

So you see, all is not lost for KLIA. Such a jewel of an airport is too good to let go. Just wait and see, traffic will definitely continue to expand into the airport and soon it will no longer be the white elephant everyone says it is.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineGuyBetsy1 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

The problem is not so much as being modern but rather flight times operated by its largest operator, Malaysia Airlines. To make KLIA a hub, MH has got to offer more flights to more flights more often.

Try to book BKK/HKG-DPS/CGK v.v. via KUL or Indonesia to Northern Asia and you'll see what I mean. When compared to say, SQ, you can do the above routes rather easily.


User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

It does often amaze me when people complain that KUL is 'always empty' - on my last few trips the airport has been buzzing. Don't forget that KUL was designed to BE quiet and spacious - so if it was crowded - the architect would have failed miserably in its first few years of operation.

I flew KUL-LGK recently and the check-in queue snaked all the way to the entrance doors of the terminal building and ALL the domestic check-in counters (well I guess almost all of them as I could tell) were working and busy. These were all Malaysia Airlines passengers and the idea is to move AirAsia out into a LCC terminal to reclaim the peace - see later.

On our return there was a mass of passenger traffic from all parts of Malaysia shuffling smoothly along the domestic corridors leading out into the Arrivals Hall. More recently on many flights coming in to KUL - the Baggage Belts have all been in use - sometimes with multiple flights. (I admit there are times like mid-afternoon when this is not so common - but the same can be said about lots of airports).

I also fly KUL-AMS frequently and that route is certainly packing the loads in. Flights are often full and on my last trip the Plaza Premium lounge had to open its connecting door into the lounge next door (wasn't sure who's it was but it had magazines belonging to Eva Air and Japan Airlines) - just to cope with the number of Business travellers passing through that evening. I have also sat in MAS Golden Lounges both in Business and First and they have both been busy too.

What you are currently seeing is the bunching of flights at KUL - which is how a hub should work so arriving/departing passengers can transfer. As these peak hour slots become full - you will no doubt start seeing a more constant flow of traffic. I remember when Subang was only busy first thing in the morning (usually only deps though) and last thing at night (with both deps/arr). KLIA continues to be busy at both these periods but the hours are extending with a smaller peak between 2pm and 5pm. Things will change in time.

Plans are already underway to expand KUL - with the Low-Cost Terminal set to open first (I gather work is already underway). The Aerotrains get upgraded this Summer to offer more capacity and the shops and food outlets are to begin renovation work. Satellite B is slated to open in 3 years time too.

On top of all this - someone I know at KLM has already advised me to look out for an announcement from Skyteam later this Summer... goodvibes   shhh 

KUL - Hub without the Hubbub perhaps...


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Did Qantas use KUL as a hub between Australia and Europe?

I am sure SIN will continue to be a super leading hub of Asia. It is also a major international business centre. SIN is a traditional hub between Australia and Europe. Also Asia. Doubt KUL, DXB etc will surpass it easily.


Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 18):

Lush greenery and cozy settings greets the weary traveller that spells "WELCOME" with wide open arms. Whenever I arrive home in Changi, I cannot help but beam with pride that this airport truly spells a consistent excellence but without the din of loud drums. Rather, the virtues are laid out quietly and the serenity creeps up on you slowly.

Exactly. Very cozy indeed

[Edited 2005-05-31 21:45:51]

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3374 times:

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 9):
Here we go
KLIA 2004: 21,000,000PAX
Changi 2004: 30,353565PAX
BKK 2004: 37,960,169PAX

Quite surprised that BKK is ahead of SIN. Does anyone know why?

Actually among all three airports, which is the largest in terms of size???

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 18):
So back to the original question, will KLIA ever become a hub? Well, a hub in what sense, one might ask? A stopover point for the Kangaroo route? With the withdrawal of BA and QF, MAS has managed to almost monopolise this route. Other than UK-Australia routes, most traffic into Malaysia seems to be low-yield so airlines might find it a rather challenging scenario to make money from the routes.

Well lots of Malaysians travel too. KL is the number 1 business centre of Malaysia. Certainly there are plenty of businessmen and airlines can connect millions and millions of Malaysians to Europe and Australia. Routes like KUL-LHR run out full from time to time.

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 20):
with the Low-Cost Terminal set to open first

Any pictures?


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):
Inclusive of the only connection from South America to Asia.

B.S., JAL flies 4x weekly to GRU, RG also flies from GRU to NRT.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
JAL flies 4x weekly to GRU, RG also flies from GRU to NRT.

Yes.

BTW what aircraft does JAL use on the SIN-KUL run? In the past it was a B 767. What about now? Have they ever used a B 747 on this route before?

[Edited 2005-06-01 01:13:53]

25 Intothinair : When I saw it first, I was also very surprised. But, Thailand is a very popular tourist destination, and way bigger than Singapore. As well as that,
26 Joost : As already stated, it's a popular tourist destination. Next to that, compare Thailand with Singapore: Thailand: 62 mio inhabitants, $388 billion GDP
27 6thfreedom : So what are the rules here guys. The goal posts seem to be constantly moving. Everyone keeps going on about SIN being the best hub, yet it has fewer p
28 United Airline : SYD is nice. SIN is very convenient too. Also Singapore is a much more bigger/important international financial/business centre than Thailand. I am s
29 MAS777 : With regard to Singapore and its relation to Malaysian traffic. The DCA (Civil Aviation Authority) of Malaysia is well aware of Singapore being a hist
30 Zkojh : U might see a return from NZ in the next couple of years , bit short of planes at the moment LOL !!
31 United Airline : I hope so too. When did NZ suspend service to KUL???? I remember Ansett Australia flew to KUL as well. Northwest did. Also Qantas. Hope they will ret
32 Zkojh : i think it was around 97 , but someone from nz might confirm this,
33 NZ747 : The began servicing KL in feb 1990, and ceased services november 1993.
34 SOUTHAMERICA : Like you said, B.S. JAL flies 3 times a week to Sao Paulo. SOUTHAMERICA
35 6thfreedom : There you go United. U have answered your own question. Uou can't judge an airport on convenience on one hand, or astheatics. It needs to be a comple
36 Ex_SQer : because the figures include domestic pax.
37 United Airline : I mean SYD is ok... Oh yes. Thanks. So does Phuket Air operate any long haul routes? They pulled out of LHR a while ago. What about Orient Thai? Do t
38 Aviasian : Ex_SQer : Thanks for finally putting the key difference in those figures. You will see that statistics from SIN and HKG must always be seen in a diffe
39 United Airline : So where do they fly to??? What cities? Any plans to resume long haul travel in the future??? I hope they do Any cabin shots of this airline???? Oh d
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