Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UA To Suspend ORD-EZE  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7729 times:

United Airlines will suspend non-stop O'Hare-Buenos Aires service next week. The suspension is effective 6 June 2005 through 14 December 2005. This is due to the fact that they are having some 763s repossed, and, in short notice, must cut some of the poorer performing routes. They will continue to offer a daily service between Dulles and Buenos Aires, continuing to Montevideo.

Also, don't look for the second daily Dulles-Sao Paulo flight, which is nothing more than a weak attempt to hold unused US-Brazil frequencies, to happen. Those frequencies will probably go into an unallocated pool for AA and others to fight over.

And, yes, UA's ORD-EZE flight is still in many reservation systems and the Star Alliance timetable, but availability is clearly zeroed out in the systems it is still in, and it is no longer in Worldspan.

A final decission on cutting the 2nd daily IAD-GRU flight should come soon. Some rumours also are suggesting that United may make ORD-GRU seasonal and make IAD-GRU a 772, but take it with a grain of salt for now.


a.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

MAH4546:

Thanks for the breaking news. I am surprised to see the suspension on the route, as last year during the busy Christmas period UA used the B747 full pax ORD-EZE.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
A final decission on cutting the 2nd daily IAD-GRU flight should come soon. Some rumours also are suggesting that United may make ORD-GRU seasonal and make IAD-GRU a 772, but take it with a grain of salt for now

If UA does not materialise the 2 x day IAD-GRU and even further makes ORD-GRU seasonal, in the middle of booming Brazil-US traffic, it will hit hard Star presence in the Brazilian market. RG does not have aircraft to cover any available position, which will make AA/JJ + CO and DL seize the market opportunity/vacuum created by UA's withdrawal.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1740 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

Again....They put it, they take it,They put it, they take it,They put it, they take it...

Mike



They don't call us Continental for nothing.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24316 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

Thanks MAH

But allready mentioned.. UA Short 763s: What's Getting Cut And When? (by Commavia May 30 2005 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

MAH4546... do you have a source for this news? I know it's a logicall conclusion, but I can't find anything out there in the news to support it (nor internally at UA).

thanks
FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7483 times:

They did the same with ORDEZE last summer as well...and yes then ended up upgrading to 744 during xmas. Wall St Journal had it yesterday along with the fact that it was only 4 aircraft leaving the fleet in the near term with negotiations on 4 more continuing. I would suspect the upgrading of the IAD pilot base to include 747 this fall is part of the equation here...looks like enough for 6 aircraft at the begining.

User currently offlineLatinAviation From Ireland, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7362 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
Thanks for the breaking news. I am surprised to see the suspension on the route, as last year during the busy Christmas period UA used the B747 full pax ORD-EZE.

Hardi- UA hasn't used a 747 to EZE since the late 1990s on MIA-EZE.

Source. This does not appear to be a seasonal cancelation, but a permanent one. From this morning's WSJ:

She said the only route that will be dropped as a result of the latest plane-lease dispute is between Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and Buenos Aires. The Argentine city was going to be phased out from August until December anyway because winter in the Southern Hemisphere is the low season there. She said United will continue to serve Buenos Aires from Washington Dulles International Airport. The other three plane returns won't result in loss of service, she said, because other airplanes will cover those routes.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

Thanks for the research, this is not a big surprise, with the 763s going, ORD-EZE and the second IAD-GRU flights were favorites to be cut. UA will also shuffle its remaining 763s and any domestic flying of the type is likely to be cut out and replaced with the 752s.......I am curious if ORD-AMS remains in the system and if the IAD-GRU flight is upgraded to a 772 (is an aircraft available?).

With UA cutting South American services, does this:

-open the door for CO to launch its proposed and applied for IAH-EZE route?

-clear the way for AA taking over UA's now unused Brazil frequencies which would allow AA to add flights on the MIA-GIG route (which was cut back to allow more sevice into GRU) or another route to Brazil?

I think that there are more implications here than UA simply losing 5 aircraft....the loss of the 763s may result in UA giving up some valuable route authorities.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

American Airlines, Delta Airlines, and Continental Airlines now have more than a valid reason to go after the frequencies that United Airlines is now not going to be using.

In regards to the Buenos Aires to Chicago route authority, it is about time that the Argentine and American governments give United Airlines a stern warn. Do it, or lose it. The Argentine press will if and when the nes comes out will have a field day with United Airlines. Does anyone remember the last time United Airlines pulled Buenos Aires? In Argentina, they were remarking someting to the fact of "The Lost Airline".

It is amazing how one airline can manipulate so many people, in such a short amount of time. My money is on Continental Airlines for IAH-EZE or Delta Airlines for JFK-EZE, and American Airlines ORD-GRU.


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

United needs to cut aircraft within a week. The second IAD-GRU flight isn't even scheduled to start until October 31. At that time, summer trans-Atlantic capacity will be shifted to South America. They'll be able to do it and reinstate ORD-EZE.

And, United will likely be out of bankruptcy by October with new financing to purchase/lease aircraft. Of course, that's IF United can cut labor and other costs enough to attract bankruptcy exit financing.

[Edited 2005-05-31 16:10:27]

User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7102 times:

Yeah, I just flew this route in early April and I had no problem upgrading with miles, in fact, the UA reservation person said it was one of their easiest routes to upgrade.


Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7100 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
open the door for CO to launch its proposed and applied for IAH-EZE route

Because UA is only temporarily suspending ORD-EZE for six months (although it is possible that this could become a permanent 'suspension') it remains unclear as to whether UA has to return the route authority and frequencies associated with ORD-EZE into the unallocated US-Argentina pool. If, indeed, that is the case, and UA returns these seven weekly frequencies to the pool, than CO is almost certainly going to be the main benificiary. No doubt, AA and CO will both go after the slots -- CO for IAH-EZE, and AA probably for the third, daylight, MIA-EZE, but of these two CO will definitely win.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
clear the way for AA taking over UA's now unused Brazil frequencies which would allow AA to add flights on the MIA-GIG route (which was cut back to allow more sevice into GRU) or another route to Brazil

Brazil and Argentina are governed by two different bilaterals with the United States and as such UA's pullout of ORD-EZE would not have an effect on AA's efforts to increase frequency on the second MIA-GIG flight.


User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7058 times:

Good chance for AC to pick up some STAR customers who would otherwise use ORD EZE, they could now fly AC YYZ EZE.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7056 times:

A coworker of mine worked for UA for seven years until recently, and he told me that IAD-EZE does pretty poorly load wise. That really doesn't surprise me. I suppose they are only keeping it for European connections out of IAD if it is timed as such.


Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
-clear the way for AA taking over UA's now unused Brazil frequencies which would allow AA to add flights on the MIA-GIG route (which was cut back to allow more sevice into GRU) or another route to Brazil?

If the ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU flight are dropped, AA will indeed go after the frequencies.

AA for a daylight MIA-EZE service, but they will be contested heavily by the loser of the current CO/DL EZE compieition.

AA will also probably go for all nine unused US-Brazil frequencies, most likely to increase MIA-GIG once again and to finally start a service to a secondary city, probably Manaus, a few times a week.



a.
User currently offlineLatinAviation From Ireland, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6928 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 13):
A coworker of mine worked for UA for seven years until recently, and he told me that IAD-EZE does pretty poorly load wise. That really doesn't surprise me. I suppose they are only keeping it for European connections out of IAD if it is timed as such.

Load wise, perhaps. But it does ok in F/J. The World Bank, IMF and Inter-American Development Bank are all heavy supporters of the route, as well.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

On IAD-GRU, United might just play the DoT game. Leave the plans for a second IAD-GRU on. Then file to postpone the start of service to buy time and keep other airlines from adding service.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6766 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
On IAD-GRU, United might just play the DoT game. Leave the plans for a second IAD-GRU on. Then file to postpone the start of service to buy time and keep other airlines from adding service.

That is quite possible, and some would argue that this is what UA is doing with the second IAD-GRU flight anyway. Most agree that UA will probably never be able to fill the plane, in premium cabins or coach, and that it will probably drag down yields for both flights. IMO, UA is just flying IAD-GRU because they have nowhere else to use those frequencies and don't want AA or anyone else to get them.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
On IAD-GRU, United might just play the DoT game

I dont think the DOT will buy UA's game anymore. UA has been playing this game for some time now, and DOT already gave 7 of UA's frequencies to DL (ATL-GIG). I'm sure DOT will give UA's unuse frequencies to AA. As stated above, I predict AA will use the frquencies to operate MIA-GIG and MIA-MAO.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
IMO, UA is just flying IAD-GRU because they have nowhere else to use those frequencies and don't want AA or anyone else to get them.

UA is doing well on both ORD-GRU and IAD-GRU. However, I agree that the 2nd IAD-GRU will undermine yields and loads. UA has a fairly strong pax base in Brazil because of RG's FFs (Star).

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-05-31 17:57:29]

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Not fill the planes????!!!

Have you tried to get on a UA flight to Brazil between October and Easter?? They're packed and frequently oversold. Don't know the yields/premium/coach but I do know that they are also packed with cargo down below. United will easily be able to fill the second flight during those months.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 19):
Not fill the planes????!!!

Have you tried to get on a UA flight to Brazil

Agree. As I stated above, UA's twice daily services to Brazil (ORD and IAD) are both doing quite well and are in no danger.

Rgs,


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 19):
Have you tried to get on a UA flight to Brazil between October and Easter??

Every airline to Brasil is full during those time periods! It is nothing special!


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6660 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 19):
Have you tried to get on a UA flight to Brazil between October and Easter??

Every airline to Brasil is full during those time periods! It is nothing special!


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6534 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
My money is on Continental Airlines for IAH-EZE or Delta Airlines for JFK-EZE

May not have to be an "or". Depending on whether the suspension is permanent and if the slots go back to the unallocated pool, there could be 14 weekly flights available which would accomodate both CO and DL. AA will certainly try to grab its share as well but stands less of a chance unless it opens up another gateway.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
I dont think the DOT will buy UA's game anymore.

United can still claim it will fulfill its promise of service even after losing several 767s. There is no way to for the DoT or the other airlines to disprove that intent. Then in October, if the service does not start, they can file an extension for another 90 days. If service does not start, the frequencies may be out for competitive bidding. It could be late 2006 before we see any other airline using those frequencies.


25 Hardiwv : The DoT has the right not to grant the extension, especially based on UA track record, as the did before in the case they gave UA's positions to DL!
26 DLKAPA : Anybody have the tail #'s of the birds that are leaving the fleet today?
27 Aa777jr : Lost another one...hope this isn't a trend we are starting to see. This is only because they are losing five of the 763 correct? Regards.
28 Incitatus : In that case United didn't have any firm plans to use the frequencies. Delta did. But we seem to be in general agreement that this could drag on for
29 Commavia : While this would obviously be better for all involved, most of all consumers, I doubt it will ever happen. UA knows that the instant they release tho
30 FA4UA : From United: Minor Schedule Changes Result From Return of Aircraft to Leaseholders ---------------------------------------------------- As the company
31 Daron4000 : Could UA do the 2nd IAD-GRU flight on a seasonal basis where there is enough demand so still be able to hold onto the routes?
32 SLUAviator : As people continue to mention, yes, UA did use a 744 on a ORD-EZE run this winter. A work friend's mom was one of the CS agents for that flight. It w
33 FriendlySkies : So, just to clear up all the rumors and get down what's official: 763ERs repossessed: 4 Routes dropped: 1 (ORD-EZE) Anything else is pure rumor, and f
34 Chgoflyer : Anyone know who held the note? Who is doing the repo? Boeing or maybe AIG?
35 LipeGIG : It depends on DOT humor. DOT can grant the slots to other airline (such as AA) for a definitive route as second GIG-MIA or a new MIA-REC or even CNF
36 LatinAviation : I absolutely stand corrected. My apologies. I was under the impression that it had been a scheduled service, not an ad-hoc equipment upgrade due to l
37 Post contains links LVZXV : United 747-400 @ EZE ZXV
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA To Suspend SFO-ICN For This Fall/winter posted Thu Jul 28 2005 10:09:43 by HeeseokKoo
UA To Start ORD-VIE? posted Sun Dec 5 2004 08:42:55 by TW741
UA To Start ORD-VIE? posted Wed Sep 1 2004 18:07:20 by Maxfly
UA To Start ORD-XNA, DEN-XNA posted Tue Aug 31 2004 18:02:54 by MAH4546
UA To Start ORD-SHANGHAI posted Wed Jun 30 2004 19:29:11 by Soups
UA To Cut JFK-EZE posted Wed Apr 17 2002 16:32:00 by MAH4546
UA To Start ORD-AMS, Drop ORD-HNL posted Tue Oct 10 2000 16:40:45 by ORD
What Happened To UA, ORD-EZE? posted Mon Nov 7 2005 02:50:36 by ContinentalEWR
UA To Add Capacity On ORD-FRA posted Thu Sep 7 2006 12:05:28 by Maxfly
UA Axes ORD-EZE...again posted Sun Sep 3 2006 22:09:08 by MAH4546