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9W To Take EK's A345s  
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12541 times:

...just-in at the orders forum.

Initially will be a lease of two, with more potentially to follow.

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12498 times:

I guess this will mean EK will go for the 777-200LR's!

Will 9W keep their leased 343's then?

I'm guessing for direct services to EWR and YYZ....?

Rob!


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12470 times:

Are these existing A345's or undelivered A345s still on order?


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Initially will be a lease of two, with more potentially to follow.

Any mention of what the timeframe for this lease would be? With three leased A340's and four A330's still to come, it would be interesting to see how this addition would affect 9W's expansion plans.

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineORD777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12302 times:

Wasn't there something on here about 9W having future plans to fly nonstop to ORD? It would be great to finally see an A345 here in Chicago.

User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12287 times:

Exactly when are they due,i doubt they will come before late 2006

User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11919 times:

Sort of interesting to see EK "help" an Indian carrier start the nonstop flights from India to the US that will really compete with EK's own India-US service (I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

As far as nonstop flights...BOM-NYC, BOM-ORD and BOM-SFO are the three routes Jet should start nonstop ASAP as those routes have the first, business and premium coach pax to fill the plane right now (they won't even need a regular coach section).

With Indian carriers actually going ahead with nonstop flights, the situation is ironically shifting. Premium pax who avoided Indian carriers should now start flying the nonstops while discount pax will take the one stop through Europe.
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now. We need to be able to earn status as well as points on the trip to India  Smile


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11864 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
I guess this will mean EK will go for the 777-200LR's!

I think we may see EK dump their A346HGW order all together. The reason EK even split the order between 773ER and A346 was because the 773ER (as advertised several years ago) offered superior payload and the A346 offered superior range/TO performance. With the subsequent improvements in 773ER performance, this is no longer the case: the A346-HGW has only a slight range advantage.

Convert the 20 A346 into an A350 commitment with an add-on 773ER/772LR would make the most sense and would streamline EKs future fleet.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4786 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11777 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now. We need to be able to earn status as well as points on the trip to India

U can get 9W mileage points if u are a KLM/NWA World Perks card holder...which other airline has similar arrangements with 9W?


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11762 times:

Quoting ORD777 (Reply 4):
Wasn't there something on here about 9W having future plans to fly nonstop to ORD? It would be great to finally see an A345 here in Chicago.

That was not 9W but Air Sahara who were in talks with tying up with UA to start a DEL-ORD non-stop.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
Sort of interesting to see EK "help" an Indian carrier start the nonstop flights from India to the US that will really compete with EK's own India-US service (I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

From which angle does it "help" an indian carrier---i am sure they might be paying a pretty heavy lease,

BTW, does anyone have a Link to that article of the A345 lease.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11752 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
Convert the 20 A346 into an A350 commitment with an add-on 773ER/772LR would make the most sense and would streamline EKs future fleet.

Seems like a pyrrhic victory for Airbus if this is comes to pass and was necessary for launching the A350.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11724 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):
which other airline has similar arrangements with 9W?

British Airways


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4388 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11676 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
(I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

They wouldn't be getting rid of the plane unless something better was in the pipeline.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now.

Not really - Jet should do just fine on its own provided the USA-India nonstops connect well into its domestic network.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26501 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11623 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
(I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

It almost certainly is

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
the A346-HGW has only a slight range advantage.

Actually, last I checked, the A346HGW was going to fall 100nm short of the 773ER



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11082 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Actually, last I checked, the A346HGW was going to fall 100nm short of the 773ER

Not sure when that was, but the 380t A346s features 20nm more range than the predicted range of the newer 773ERs.

N


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10951 times:

Not a glowing endorsement for the A340-500 or 340 series in general if this comes to pass.

On the other hand, it is quite a smart way for Jet Airways to acquire modern, long-haul aircraft.


User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10907 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 15):
On the other hand, it is quite a smart way for Jet Airways to acquire modern, long-haul aircraft.

so all their aircrafts will have widely acclaimed seats of SA and EK!!
my  twocents 
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10869 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
but the 380t A346s features 20nm more range

...and who here's willing to bet even $0.05 that it'll actually hit that range estimate?  Silly  Silly


User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10802 times:

Shit! looks like our secret is out! But theres more!

User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10596 times:

What an asinine decision no?

I wonder how 9W is going to compete with Air India with these slow, inneficient A340's? The world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators. I wonder how an airline like 9W could make this mistake?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10410 times:

Those first class suites in the 345 will be installed on the 777LR instead?

It think the 777 now, with A350 replacing them in the future is a good bet.

EK was smart though, because they took the "try them both and see" approach with a whole bunch of models with strong claims but no track record.

I think a lot of carriers were impressed that the 773ER greatly surpasses initial promises. It was to have a shorter range than the 772ER, but ends up with a longer range, with even a longer range possible after continued flying and certification.

It also makes the 772LR seem more attractive, because carriers are willing to believe Boeing when they claim it will perform.

Which means that if the plane doesn't perform, Boeing will lose a lot of cred.

Maybe Boeing is already informing customers quietly that the plane is performing better in early testing, but hiding it until Paris to create PR buzz? I haven't heard much about 772LR testing, even though first flight was weeks earlier than the A380.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineQFA001 From Australia, joined May 2000, 673 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10398 times:

Although I've been trying to hint for weeks that the last two EK A340-500s wouldn't wear EK colours, I don't think that this particular deal is yet set-in-stone. Anyhow, it looks as though Airbus is arranging this deal.

If so, then doesn't it make you wonder what Airbus types are on the EK chopping block for when they buy A350s at Paris or Dubai?  Wink


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10307 times:

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 19):
The world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators. I wonder how an airline like 9W could make this mistake?

I know this is either cheap bait or a hugely ignorant comment but there are a few of money making airlines operating the A340. Right of the top of my head, LH and TP.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10260 times:
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Quoting QFA001 (Reply 21):

If so, then doesn't it make you wonder what Airbus types are on the EK chopping block for when they buy A350s at Paris or Dubai?

This will make one or the other air shows very interesting. EK has proven to be a very savy negotiator... This will probably be the widebody aircraft deal of the decade.

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 19):
he world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators.

 rotfl  Ok, VA might disagree. But then again, I know Pratt looked at putting the pw8057 onto the 340 and just couldn't make the business case work. (Note: this is with RR having an established position on the airframe.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

From Jet's perspective, it is more important to establish itself in non-stop India/USA sector than to worry about efficiency differences between 777 and A340. Jet would get to fly non-stop much before Air India gets their 772LR. Jet could always get 772LR later if the non-stop flights become popular. A340 will also be useful for India/Australia non-stop flights.

25 Atmx2000 : The A350 won't replace the 772LR without a MTOW upgrade. OK, I think you are missing the Indian "Leahy"'s sarcasm. It seems as if Airbus is working h
26 Post contains images DfwRevolution : If it's true that AI is going Boeing, and nearly all indications point that way, it would sure behoove Airbus to do so... less they pull Japan in Ind
27 Atmx2000 : Well, it seems someone has been working over time since late last year to gather Airbus planes for 9W, including SAA's A343s and some A330s, too I be
28 Post contains images QFA001 : Well, it's a good deal for EK. If Airbus has 20 A340-600s cancelled, though, I'm not sure what they will get out of a deal besides an A350-900 launch
29 Shawnnyc : Well it gives Jet ULR aircraft ASAP. I would describe the India-USA market as a race right now. The doors are open and its anyone's game. Passenger e
30 Atmx2000 : I thought about that, and actually wasn't one of the scenarios (or maybe that was what EK wanted) that Boeing would take the A345s for a 772LR order.
31 Schipholjfk : Only for flights within India. Not going to get a mile if you fly 9W on their international routes.
32 QFA001 : It makes more sense for Boeing, but does it make more sense for EK? Airbus needs an A350 launch customer. Boeing needs to establish B772LR in its mar
33 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Guess not Despite losing the launch customer of the -600HGW, Airbus would still come out ahead. The A350 order is rumored to be for as many as 50 air
34 Jacobin777 : add SQ, AF, and VS (though the HGK-SYD route isn't doing all that great for the 346 right now)..
35 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Well, Boeing is selling a few to AC, AI and PIA. It would be nice to get a Tier 1 customer, but they have a few options for that. I think they would
36 JoyA380B747 : Does this mean, TG is also going to dump their 345's?? Also, are 9W going to get those EK 1st class suites on their 345's, when leased?? JOY
37 COUGARRIDES : AFAIK, 9W is going to be 2 class operation. So only CLub Premiere (J) and Economy. Can anyone confirm if BA/KLM are looking to sub-lease some of thei
38 777ER : I might have missed it, but where is the source about 9W taking EKs A345s?
39 LAXDESI : Ditto. Google or other aviation sites do not show anything related to this deal. Can ConcordeBoy provide a link please.
40 6thfreedom : the problem with VS on the HKG-SYD sector is not aircraft related. It's more market share and growth! I think VS would have trouble filling an A320 b
41 MauriceB : Can anyone confirm if BA/KLM are looking to sub-lease some of their 747-400's well atleast not KLM.... They have a capicity shortage at the moment and
42 Dennys : the A345 is THE WAY to fly NONSTOP from INDIA to THE USA !!!! FOUR JETS for very long routes is THE WAY !!!! denn
43 Sllevin : I find it most interesting that EK, an airline which is ordering new airframes right and left, would be interested in giving up ANY capacity. I'm stru
44 Post contains images N1120A : That was not all that long ago, 7900nm to 8000nm. Still, 20nm is nothing and they will likely miss anyway I am not even willing to throw in The A350
45 BestWestern : Is the problem the A345 or the actual viability of ultra long range flights? From what I understand the CASM difference between Boeing and Airbus is t
46 Zvezda : Between which Boeing and which Airbus? The CASM difference between the A340-500 and the B777-300LR is enormous. The CASM difference between the A340-
47 Leskova : Extremely enormous... especially because there is no such thing as a B777-300LR. Regards, Frank Edited: typo...[Edited 2005-06-01 10:51:26]
48 Udo : -200LR Regards Udo
49 N1120A : While you got the number wrong on the 777, you are right about the CASM difference On the route mission of the A345 now, the difference is staggering
50 Post contains links and images QFA001 : Spelling is hard enough in english. No. The four carriers considered in this equation are: AC, CX, EK & SQ. Only one, AC, has decided to abandon the
51 Gigneil : Please detail the CASM difference. Here too. N
52 OldAeroGuy : Both the 772LR and the 773ER burn about 25% less fuel per seat than the A345 and A346 respectively. Since fuel is about 50% of cash operating costs t
53 COUGARRIDES : Source? Boeing website? Aah! now thats an unbiased source!!
54 Post contains images Zvezda : Please everyone, accept my most sincere and humble apologies for my typo. Unfortunately, it's now past the 30 minute limit for me to correct.
55 Glidepath73 : That's just ridiculous...... There are lots of airlines which love to fly the A340 series and they DO make money with it....LX for instance as well.
56 Udo : Patrick, COUGARRIDES most likely forgot to put a smiley behind his comment. I guess that was all meant ironic. Regards Udo
57 COUGARRIDES : I thought the phrase "the world and concordeboy know" would be enough! Apparently it isnt!!
58 Post contains links Atmx2000 : Blurb on Jet from ATW: http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=6%2F1%2F2005 Jet Airways of India is in final talks concerning an order for
59 AvFan4ever : COUGAR - What is the basis for your pessimism and tone? How did you jump to the conclusion that AeroGuy's comments came from the Boeing web site? How
60 Shawnnyc : Do people think that EK is willing to lease out some A345 because they are delaying more nonstop flights to the US? I thought they were waiting for th
61 LAXDESI : Perhaps the nonstops to US were meant to pick up India bound passengers and provide them onestop connections to India. This routes may not be viable
62 Atmx2000 : Of course the A345 might be the only current option for nonstop BOM-NYC, without weight restrictions. In that case, they may simply be trying to open
63 LAXDESI : Does anyone know the delivery dates and configuration for these two A345s?
64 OURBOEING : Can you name a few airlines that fly only A340 (i.e no Boeings in their fleet) are are making money?
65 Leskova : Please tell me you're not trying to make the suggestion that those airlines flying A340s and Boeings make all the money with their Boeing fleets, whi
66 N60659 : As to the delivery dates, I guess the only current indication can be derived from here: -N60659
67 Post contains links Blrsea : Jet gets govt OK for extra U.S. flights
68 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Doubtful, unless they dump their C-market routes in total.... can't see this airline opping a twin over the Pacific/Arctic, and for once, perhaps rig
69 OldAeroGuy : No argument. I was quoting Cash Operating Cost per Seat where fuel is a bigger piece of the pie. Nope, I can build up these numbers using the manufac
70 Gigneil : How could that possibly be relevant to anything? N
71 JoyA380B747 : Yes they will, you know, because AI is "Indian"Govt-Based and Jet Free from all its influence!! Moreover, how many of you want 9W to dominate over AI
72 Ourboeing : No Frank, I was not saying what you thought I was saying. I was simply asking a question to Glidepath73 for his comment. Well, since we are at it, it
73 Post contains images PM : Er, so 99% of the people who claim NOT to be experts really are? There aren't many, that's for sure, but I'm not convinced that we can draw many conc
74 Leskova : If you're using the list I posted to determine that - don't. As I mentioned in my post, those are just the airlines fulfilling your requirement as to
75 Post contains images HAWK21M : Hows the Loads like presently. regds MEL
76 Atmx2000 : TG has a history of problems with regards to ETOPS, which is why he doubts the airline will drop the A345 for C market routes. For TG, the best choic
77 Post contains images Ourboeing : Since EK is not short on cash like other operators, it more likely to be the "being unhappy" part of it Oh well, the bottom line is either its either
78 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...of course not mon ami, you know better than that! Post 76 describes the actual reason for my statement
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