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Fed Ex 727 Replacement?  
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7068 times:

Which a/c will FX chose to replace their 727 fleet? They have over 100 in service. I read they are currently looking for a replacement for their 727-100 and 727-200s.


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Apologies if this has been discussed.

Regards.

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7019 times:

Perhaps a 737F? That would be the most logical replacement. Is there a 737-800F?


~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7002 times:

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Is there a 737-800F

There isn't, but when FedEx retires the 727s there could be.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Boeing better get to work on that if they already haven't!

Regards.


User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

Maybe when they launch the 737-900ER, they could maky a freighter version. That would be good.

~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6964 times:

Boeing tried to sell Fed Ex the 757F, when that line was drying up. Boeing was asking too much for the type, so Fed Ex declined, and the 757 line was closed. I believe Fed Ex is retiring all the 721s & some 722s, but some of the newer 722s will still be around awhile yet. Fed Ex got the last 15 727-200s assembled. IMO, the FAA should approve the 73G Combis for sale, and maybe Fed Ex would look at those, however Fed Ex loves the 2nd hand airframes...problem is that they're not enough of any one type available. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineOURBOEING From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

FedEx usually uses ex-passenger aircraft so my guess would be 767? There are a whole lot of them sitting out in the desert.

OURBOEING


User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

I know awhile back they were talking to US to get their 734's. I don't know if FedEx is still looking for 737's though. They won't get new ones though, for there are plenty of second hand ones available.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

I would assume the 737-300/400 would make a good replacement. Kitty Hawk and one of the Iceland carries have a couple already converted into freighters. And I believe there is good availability of these models on the second hand market.


319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

FedEx usually uses ex-passenger aircraft so my guess would be 767?

uwh yeah, that comment does 100% not make sense.... so you suggest they send an 767 on routes with not to high load factor, wich will mean about 60% of the craft wil be empty?

the 767 is way to big...

i think they should go for 737-300/400, there are enough of them in the desert, and even if it aren't enough frames, there will be comming more and more each year, wich doesn't matters because i think i can safely say they won't replace all 727 at one time...

[Edited 2005-06-01 19:44:07]

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

Before 737NGs are being converted as freighters there are plenty of -300s and -400s flying around. So I think that some of the older ones will soon start a new life as freighters some of them already did :


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It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6923 times:

It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That is one reason why the 737 is not used much as a freighter.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I have heard it before.

If it is true, I don't know if it is a landing gear issue or if it is a floor loading issue. Both could probably be solved.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6876 times:

Maybe we will soon see the conversion of the first A320s into freighters after all the first one has just been scraped.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6810 times:

Surely united have got a few planes they would like to sell off to redeem them selves out of there bad debt problem and it fed-ex could buy what they have and convert the to cargo carriers, got to be cheaper than buying 100+ new planes


You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6784 times:

Don't forget all those US Airways 733s & 734s that will be on the market if the HP/US merger is approved. If US Airways wants capital from Airbus, the 737s will have to go. Maybe then Fed Ex will take a look at the 737 for its fleet. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That is one reason why the 737 is not used much as a freighter.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I have heard it before.

If it is true, I don't know if it is a landing gear issue or if it is a floor loading issue. Both could probably be solved.

Considering that the 737-200 has been used as a combi and a straight freighter (In fact, FX has operated several 737-200Cs for a time in the late 1970s-early 1980s), then any other of the 737 Classics shouldn't have any issues with being used as freighters. Probably the main reason why there aren't too many 737-300/400/500 freighters is that many airlines still have them in passenger service in large numbers and probably will be for the forseeable future. Very few 737 Classic operators have completely retired them from the fleet (One of the few I can think is F9).


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

The Fedex growth focus is on the international air shipment products and domestic deferred trucking within the US. Air shipments within the US are not a growth focus. Hence, we can only assume that US domestic air yields are not strong and/or the market is fairly mature. Hence, I would not expect a new-build aircraft (739x) to replace the 721/722 fleet.

I predict the older 721/722 to be progressively retired with the "thicker" markets upgrading from the 722 to the 312/313 which Fedex continues to add. The still leaves room for an eventual 722 replacement -- which is likely to be used 733/734 or 320F platforms (despite the lack of a 320F yet). The 752 and 762 are too large.

IMHO.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFdxgirl From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 74 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

fedex used 737's back in the day before they had 727's in their fleet. its hard to say, if they get rid of the ole 727's i think they'd jump over to airbuses.

User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Yeah I'd say they will buy more airbuses from airlines looking to ditch theirs for newer models.

User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6345 times:

Could either the 737 or 767 be converted for freight? Wow, Airbus over Boeing for FX? Seriously? Why?

User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

The 737 has been a rumour for yrs. but it has yet to be a reality. Anyone's guess is as good as the next one.
We did have 73s for a short time yrs. ago but they went away and didn't return.


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Boeings offerings for a small freighter fleet are not as good as airbus. Boeing beats airbus on medium-long haul though

User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6296 times:

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Perhaps a 737F?



Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 3):
Boeing better get to work on that if they already haven't!

There is certainly a combi variant of the 737-700...

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/c40/c40ainfo.html


User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):
Very few 737 Classic operators have completely retired them from the fleet (One of the few I can think is F9).

Westjet & Canjet will soon. Canjet is switching over to the 737-500, while Westjet will use a mix of 737-600, -700 & -800s.
I couldn't say what FedEx will do, but I can imagine where a few of their 727s will go, like Cargojet & First Air. Maybe.  bouncy 



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4809 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6206 times:

Canjet is switching over to the 737-500

The -300, -400 and -500 are considered "Classic" 737s. The -100 and -200 are just called "initial version" by Boeing.

Has there ever been any interest by FedEx to convert the 722s to a 2-man cockpit (like the MD-10)? The airframe values are probably too low to make it worth it though...

737-400 and -300 freighter conversions would make by far the most sense, even if their capacity is a bit less.


25 LawnDart : The 737 Classics (-300 and -400) do have lower zero fuel weights than the 727 series, and their performance degrades rapidly with increased payload.
26 Ha763 : Huh? The smallest Airbus built freighter is the A310. There aren't even converted A320s flying, so how can Airbus be better in the small freighter ma
27 Gigneil : Combi? Never happen. Full freighter, sure. Fedex is a leading purchaser of new aircraft. They took many, many new build DC-10s, launched the MD-11 (n
28 Post contains images Scottieprecord : LawnDart: "what about a conversion for the CRJ?" Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe FX is beginning to use more ATRs for that area. haha.
29 Srbmod : As already mentioned, FX is beginning to use ATR-42 freighters, and I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually start to use ATR-72s as well. Now what
30 Teva : The initial plan for FX was to replace 727s by A300 and 310s. But those 2 planes found their own market, and 727s are still needed. For the feeders, F
31 HAWK21M : Why not get STC for B734SFs regds MEL
32 DAYflyer : I wonder if they ever seriously have considered this option.
33 Brucek : What US domestic routes utilize the B72's? And what does FX use from it's Paris hub currently for the European market? Bruce.
34 LawnDart : I never said anything about short stages. And I understand that a 10 minute difference on a short segment isn't critical. My comment was in regard to
35 Post contains images LifelinerOne : There were serious talks between FedEx and Fokker once about the Fokker 60 as a feederplane. However, Fokker died and they went for the Ayres. After
36 Post contains images TatTVC : Ok all- Before all you people doubt my credibility, both my mom and dad fly for Fedex (or Fredex as we call it). Dad is a MD-11 Capitan and mom a DC-1
37 B744F : A CRJ as a cargo hauler? Yikes, it can barely haul passengers. Maybe with some rockets on the side like some modified hercules
38 Brons2 : wow that's quite a family. I assume they met on the job there at FX?
39 LawnDart : I hate when people respond like this, but here goes: Do you have any data to back up your statement? I'm not attacking your comment (I think it was i
40 Unicorn : The appropriate rreplacement for the 727F is a 757-200F or -200PCF. They have a 15 pallet capacity, miuch better operating economics over the 727 (two
41 UPS Pilot : I have to say this is where UPS actually didn't follow Fed Ex and it really worked out well. The 757 PF launch was an excellent choice for UPS. These
42 TatTVC : No they met teaching flight school at the Ann Arbor (Michigan) airport for UofM. Thanks for the complement! TatTVC
43 Post contains images Pilotsmoe : They seem to be loving the A310. They have alot of them. The a310 is probably better for cargo, anyway. and they're cheaper second hand
44 TrevD : Absolutely the right move !! More capability, lower costs than the 72F. No scribe mark issues like the 73's and due to the average hour:cycle ratios
45 Yyz717 : For some cargo airlines maybe, but not for Fedex. The 752F is too close in capacity to the 312F that Fedex already operates. The 752F is also too lar
46 UPS Pilot : One problem about the A310. There isn't that many good airframes left to completely replace the Fed Ex 72 fleet.
47 LawnDart : Interesting point. I have no idea what the cycle limit is on the A320 compared to the 757. Reminds me (actually, I have to dig this out of the recess
48 Post contains images HermansCVR580 : Like they say nothing can truly replace a 727 lead slead Too bad they are gas guzzlers. Boeing made a great plane when they built the 727!!! Who would
49 Pilotpip : A little CRJ history: Just prior to deregulation in the late 1970s, a cargo company went to various manufactures with a request. They wanted an aircr
50 MauriceB : A310's are still an interesting play. Dirt cheap as overall residual values are terrible. Can easily get a 10 year old A310 for about $5M to $8M and h
51 Post contains links and images WorldXplorer : MauriceB, what's your phone number? Check out this link: http://www.aircraftbrowser.com/1986%20A310-300.htm That's one I've never heard before. Is th
52 Columba : Didn´t Federal Express used to fly Falcon-Jets (20 or 50) as a Cargo Aircraft ?
53 Yyz717 : Yes. Until deregulation, Fedex was prevented form operating anything larger. Deregulation allowed Fedex to expand capacity to the 721. Fedex' high gr
54 SkyexRamper : Maybe FedEx could finally put the MD-17 to use.
55 Fedexexpress : Fedex isnt getting rid of the 727 yet. And when they do it will be replaced with a 737-300 or 400 for sure. 767 way to big. I work at the IND hub for
56 Startknob : Just an interesting point for the replacement: Around the beginning of 2004 Airbus Asset Management had a load of 310s for sale. The list included als
57 AeroWeanie : Not quite right. The CL600 came first. The stretched cargo development of this was to come second and a lot of engineering was done it. Deregulation
58 C5onknees : theres not alot of deferrals on their 727's as it is. the 727 is a great airplane and it's definitely making money for fedex, why would they get rid o
59 Gigneil : The MD-17 would be great for real cargo haulers... but FedEx just doesn't need that cavernous (and mostly useless) volume and payload uplift. N
60 FDXMECH : One reason Fedex retired most of the -100's is the huge amount of money it would cost to comply with mandated AD's when a heavy check was due. Many a
61 Yyz717 : I'm sure all the major freight and courier carriers have looked at the MD-17 concept. The lack of orders speaks volumes. True, but the fleet will be
62 Tjwgrr : I think FedEx's replacement aircraft are currently flying in dark navy blue and also dark grey schemes. US/HP merger = lots of 733/ 734 available UA e
63 WhiteHatter : The most important issue is compatability. 767s would be a bad fit when considering the amount of inventory FedEx has tailored to the narrowbody fleet
64 Post contains images Fdxgirl : Well no matter how much everyone wants to speculate. There are a lot more factors....the jets that would replace the 727's would have to be the same s
65 N1120A : Except that it becomes more and more popular every day. One of the main reasons the 737 has not been used as a freighter in the past is that passenge
66 Fxra : Way back when I as working the ramp for FDX, a pilot mention that the A310 was "twice the cargo, half the fuel". of the B727-200. They are good planes
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