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EAS At HGR Update  
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

As I discussed here, HGR (Hagerstown, MD) has been declared eligible for EAS subsidy until September 30, 2007. Air Midwest d/b/a US Airways Express currently serves the market with two daily B1900D roundtrips to PIT.

Yesterday was the deadline for submitting EAS proposals. Air Midwest submitted two proposals, for 2x and 3x daily roundtrips to PIT, at annual subsidies of $499,909 and $649,929, respectively. CommutAir submitted a proposal for 2x daily roundtrip service to CLE as Continental Connection, for an annual subsidy of $1,488,649.

As CommutAir is clearly out of their mind here, Air Midwest will win the case. It's just a matter of which proposal the DOT will pick; I do think there's a pretty decent chance the DOT will choose the higher level of service, even given the slightly higher level of subsidy. The decision is still two or three months away, though.

The docket is available here.


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7590 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

As a taxpayer, they better choose PIT, but then again this is rather dumb service in the first place. They'd be better off with service to IAD. PIT has far fewer options to begin with.

User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

The FY 2005 budget for EAS is $100+ Million.

User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1386 times:

whatever happened to the PIT/CBE service??? I wonder if Cumberland would qualify??

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1378 times:

whatever happened to the PIT/CBE service??? I wonder if Cumberland would qualify??

PIT-CBE service on US Airways Express ended 9/9/01.

CBE did have some service on Boston-Maine Airways after that.

CBE does not qualify for EAS.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

How is CBE not eligible? To my knowledge the nearest airports to there would be MGW, JST, or HGR... and now HGR's service is in limbo. The nearest "real" airport to there would be PIT, as I believe it is a bit closer than the BWI/IAD/DCA cluster. CBE to PIT via I-68 to MGW then I-79 through the orange barrel and cone maze around Southpointe would take at least 2.5 hours, probably closer to 3. You might cut some time off the trip if you took 2-lane US 40 over the mountains from Keysers Ridge, to Uniontown, and then took Rt 51 into the 'Burgh to get to PIT (on an off-peak time) but not more than 20 minutes or so. And if it's in the winter time, forget about going anywhere near Keysers Ridge or 68 west of CBE in general... I can attest to that from experience. If both MGW AND CKB get EAS (we beat this issue to death on another USAirways PIT service cuts thread a few days ago), despite being MUCH closer to PIT, how does CBE not get it??? OR... is MGW not EAS?? With the fact that some days that is 6x service... it kinda makes me think it might not be... can someone set me straight here??

As for HGR, that sounds like a ripe market for Mesaba's Saab's, just like they snatched up LBE when Air Midwest gave it up. You can get to alot more places from DTW via Mesaba than PIT via Air Midwest, or CLE via Commutair. Would a Saab need weight restrictions on a DTW-HGR route though?? I've heard they are known for that kind of thing, and there are definitely some terrain features to the W of HGR. I frequently drive through HGR, right past the airport on I-81 when I go to my old homeland from my new home here in ABE... but for one of you locals, how long would the average drive be from HGR to the DC area airports?? HGR isn't THAT far from MDT either.


User currently offlineHalaka From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

I lived in CBE for a fair few years - flew out of there occasionally on US back when they had the B1900 service. It is definitely remote from any major airports - PIT is really the main choice for most folks, and I also flew out of the WAS area airports a fair number of times when I lived in CBE. The area is so economically depressed, however, that it probably does make more sense to put planes in HGR instead.

Hagerstown is in much better shape economically, and it's really only a 45 minute drive up 68 from CBE, for those few folks there who need to fly.

HGR is about 1 1/2 hours from MDT. It's closer to IAD. And the drive isn't too bad if you bypass the beltway and take 15 south from Frederick.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 4):
CBE does not qualify for EAS.

According to the Great Circle Mapper, not that this is used to determine EAS eligibility (they do as the Honda Accord drives, not as the Beechcraft flies), CBE is 84 statue miles from IAD, and 99 statue miles from PIT. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the eligibility rule 70 miles, or have HMZ, MRB, WGO, PGC, JST, AOO, VVS, FRR, HGR, LBE, or MGW (the only commercial-certified airports within 70 miles of CBE, as the Beechcraft flies) suddenly reached medium or large-hub status?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the eligibility rule 70 miles, or have HMZ, MRB, WGO, PGC, JST, AOO, VVS, FRR, HGR, LBE, or MGW (the only commercial-certified airports within 70 miles of CBE, as the Beechcraft flies) suddenly reached medium or large-hub status?

VVS (Connellsville, PA for those playing along at home) is commercially certified?!? I'm originally from Uniontown... it was RARE to see even a bizjet at VVS except a couple during the 84 Lumber Classic PGA Tournament, they only have a LOC approach, and the runway is like 3458 ft (for now, expansion to 4500 coming soon). How does that work? By way of driving, it's damn near 150 miles to drive CBE-PIT, unless you take the US 40 shortcut which might get it down to 130 or so, but still a long mountainous drive. And regardless, that drive west to anywhere from CBE, even if it was to LBE, VVS, or MGW, isn't very fun in the winter. It is a somewhat depressed area though, similar to my home area around VVS unfortunately, but maybe air service would help attract businesses... other than CSX Railroad who's stuck in both CBE and VVS for the long term by geography. (I'm not saying VVS should have service though... although most people in Fayette County don't even know MGW is an option versus the drive to PIT... or think it is prohibitively expensive)

Quoting Halaka (Reply 6):
HGR is about 1 1/2 hours from MDT. It's closer to IAD. And the drive isn't too bad if you bypass the beltway and take 15 south from Frederick.

Thanks, I knew it was a bit under 90 min to MDT up 81 and then over, but I wasn't sure how bad the traffic gets between HGR and IAD... I've only been into the DC area a few times and just knew that the traffic could be a pain as compared to up 81 to MDT. Of course the levels of service at the two aren't even comparable.

Is MGW an EAS airport?? It is a bit over 70 mi driving from there to PIT, but the levels of service there seem kind of high for just EAS? Or am I just crazy. It's the stuff like this which is why I joined A.net 2 weeks ago.


User currently offlineWhlinder From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

IAD driving to Hagerstown is around 75 to 90 minutes with no traffic via RT 15. Adding traffic can really increase that drive time. If you land at IAD during the afternoon rush and have to drive to Hagerstown, count on at least 2 hours.

I am surprised Colgan didn't apply for any routes, and I would have liked to have seen someone apply for service to a better hub like IAD (even though it is so close), PHL, CLT or EWR.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1306 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
How is CBE not eligible?

CBE is not eligible for EAS because it did not have scheduled commercial air service at the time of deregulation in 1978.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1276 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
CBE is not eligible for EAS because it did not have scheduled commercial air service at the time of deregulation in 1978.

Thanks A330323X!!! That's pretty much a tough break for the residents in the CBE area though.

As for HGR, with how that area seems to be building up... you'd think someone could even serve it profitably. Are there any stipulations with an EAS as far as if say you start making large amonts of profit and wanted to add more frequency on your own? Or say Air Midwest decided to go from there to CLT after making money going to PIT... or if while Air Midwest is running the PIT service Mesaba or someone decided to come in on their own? Is that all allowed? Or will HGR's airport kinda sign away their rights by getting EAS to guarantee them one bit of service, but never anymore?


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 11):
Are there any stipulations with an EAS as far as if say you start making large amonts of profit and wanted to add more frequency on your own? Or say Air Midwest decided to go from there to CLT after making money going to PIT... or if while Air Midwest is running the PIT service Mesaba or someone decided to come in on their own? Is that all allowed?

That's all permitted, though if someone is profitably serving the airport without subsidy, the EAS contract probably won't be renewed.

Air Midwest generally does not do it, but Colgan Air often serves its EAS communities with more service (bigger planes and/or more frequencies) than it is subsidized for.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

Nice to see a Tornado on here Tornado82. I myself am a Falcon from your rival school. The CBE Airport authority is not looking to build commercial service at this time. Runway 23 will see a major overhaul soon. Expect an ILS approach....FINALLY......and taxiway work. After that, I expect they will look to corporate flying and competitive fuel prices to boost service at this once, semi-busy airport.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

Quoting Cody (Reply 13):
The CBE Airport authority is not looking to build commercial service at this time. Runway 23 will see a major overhaul soon. Expect an ILS approach....FINALLY......and taxiway work

Good for Cumberland!! Who runs that airport authority, because if I'm not mistaken the airport is actually in WVa, right?? Kinda like the CVG is in KY thing. I'm unsure whether VVS is adding an ILS with our major project or not... probably wouldn't be a bad idea because up along the ceilings can really lay down in there. CBE has to be a pretty hazardous approach too with Big Savage Mtn looming just to the west.

One thing though Cody... I didn't go to any schools where the mascot was a Tornado... I just have that handle because I'm a degreed meteorologist, and have done some storm chasing on the side. The college I graduated from was the Crusaders actually... @ VPZ. Thanks for the CBE update, and I see you fly ERJ-145's, my favorite plane type. Very few birds look more sleek than that.


User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

I thought you were a "Keyser" Tornado. My Bad. The authority has both Mineral and Allegany County commissioners as well as representatives from Maryland and West Virginia and one from the city of Cumberland. Not sure if you are from CBE originally, but during the 90's, USAir Express did quite well out of CBE. Back then, Kelly-Springfield/GoodYear and CSX did a pretty good job of filling the five daily flights. But after Kelly closed and CSX pulled most of their local training, much of the business slacked off. Couple this with a decreased schedule and cancellations galore, and ridership slacked off. The Clipper Connection was sort of a joke. They flew to BWI with a stop in HGR, but once at BWI they did not take their passengers to the terminal. Rather, they dropped them off at the FBO (Signature I think) and they had to find transportation to the terminal.

A company called Northeast Express also served CBE back around 1996. I think the service lasted about three days.


User currently offlineHalaka From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

Cody - I was a Fort Hill Sentinel. Small world..

My father worked at the Kelly home office (before it was re absorbed into goodyear in the late 90's). I was fortunate enough to fly out of CBE on a few occasions on the Kelly Springfield Saab 340, as well as the Goodyear Falcon. The ride out of CBE on the Falcon was unforgettable. The landings were always fun, too.

The subsidy money exists at the state level, as I recall. This is what kept the Pan Am thing alive for awhile. The problem is that because it's state money, it required service to another major airport in Maryland, which meant BWI and BWI alone - which is a hub for nobody, really, and while it was somewhat of a US hub at the time, you couldn't buy a single ticket that included the clipper connection flight and US flights. Interesting to hear about the dropping off at the FBO situation - I didn't know that before. Makes it all the more ridiculous..


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