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UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?  
User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1906 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Just was wondering fellow A.Netters thoughts/ opinions/ speculation of to which carrier(s) the UA 767 being returned to the lessors in the next few days will go to?


There was talk of SAS needing more lift and AC I believe also...but I asked for your opinions!

Thanks!

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

AC, TZ, CO, NA, and a few other airlines are looking for B-767-300ERs. Many prefer those with GE engines, and I believe the (soon to be) ex-UA B-763ERs have P&Ws. I don't think the lease companies that own these airplanes will have problems getting them onto new leases and flying again, soon.

User currently offlineAA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

AA might grab them up. How perfectly ironic that would be.


See you up front!
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

Just was wondering fellow A.Netters thoughts/ opinions/ speculation of to which carrier(s) the UA 767 being returned to the lessors in the next few days will go to?

i think they will go to Air Canada, because weren't they planning to add 1 or 2 more 767's? also see Zoom, Martinair and Transaero picking one up..


User currently offlineLUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

SAS better jump on it instead of looking for aircraft. I bet their feeling pretty dumb that they didn't keep a couple of 763's. It's not like fleet commonality is a big deal to them.

LUV4JFK
 yes 



John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
User currently onlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3953 times:

I know Hawaiian is looking intently at them. They just emerged from bankruptcy and are desperately looking for more 763's to use for expansion.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9623 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3932 times:
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I would say that Hawaiian would be the most likely choice for at least 2-3 of these planes.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3882 times:

How about LOT? They might need those 767's if they are going to go with the 787, or is there some kind of incompatability?


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3827 times:

It would be funny but can Delta snag some of these?

Delta has some B767s with P&Ws. Pretty sure they are different model though.

With their B767-200s retiring...wouldn't it be the cheapest way to maintain capacity?...and they could always use more B767s.

I know it's a long shot but who knows.

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2005-06-03 00:06:55]

User currently offlineSAS_A330-300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 4):
SAS better jump on it instead of looking for aircraft. I bet their feeling pretty dumb that they didn't keep a couple of 763's. It's not like fleet commonality is a big deal to them.

After the CPH-IAD schedule last winter I wouldn't think so. SAS has currently no plans to put any new aircraft into their fleet.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 2):
AA might grab them up.

AA won't take them. AA is a GE 767 operator.

I can see AC taking them. Keeping them in the STAR Alliance family will benefit both UA and AC. If/when UA returns to better health, they can perhaps more easily return to UA service if a partner airline has snagged them.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3722 times:
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These United B767s are a lot less marketable than you might think because of their PW engines.

A lot of carriers are on the lookout for B767-300ERs at the moment, but they want them with GE CF6s. For many Boeing operators it's a stop gap until the B787 arrives so they aren't willing to order a new aircraft that's about to be obsolete. When a GE-powered aircraft becomes available it's snapped up straight away by another operator...

On the other hand there have always been PW -300ERs on the market throughout the recent used 767-300ER drought because most operators looking of aircraft want the GE engine, there are several PW-powered examples sitting on BAT, Speednews and Plane Trading at the moment. Given that most potential customers have a fairly small 767 fleet they won't want to run with 2 engine types.

Best bet may be someone like ATA building a fleet from scratch but I suppoese it depends on what sort of maintenance/support package they can put together with PW, not to mention what sort of lease rate they'll be able to negotioate bearing in mind the lessor has just had to reposess them from one airline operating under Ch11.

Regards
CROSSWIND

[Edited 2005-06-03 00:37:49]

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7566 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3711 times:

I am sure that if AM were not so busy getting more 737NG's and finalizing the lease of 2 or 3 772ER's (delivery 2006), it would go for at least a couple. That way, it could increase frequencies to SCL to 1 daily from the current 6 daily and to GRU, and would be able to use -300's only to South America freeing the -200's for the flights to MAD and CDG also increasing those routes. Sadly, AM's widebody fleet will not expand at all until it receives the 772ER's next year, unless MX transfers the 763ER it is leasing from SK to AM.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3699 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
These United B767s are a lot less marketable than you might think because of their PW engines.

That's the major problem. 763ER users seem to have a marked preference for the CF6 engined variety.

They could go literally anywhere however. Take the blinkers off for a moment and there are potential customers in places like Russia or Asia who would be interested, smaller operators rather than the majors or flag carriers.

Plenty of potentials if the price is right. Condition should not be an issue.


User currently offlineUAORD2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

As much as I hate to see these planes leave the UA fleet, I see TZ acquiring these jets. The only issue is that the lessors are more than likely skeptical taking from one bankrupt airline and giving them to another bankrupt airline. Who knows, but I will sure miss my ORD-EZE trips. Maybe I'll just transfer to Washington.

-J


User currently offlineUnicorn From Vatican City, joined Nov 2003, 102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Air China, Vietnam Airlines, SkyService, LAN, Air Europa, Nationwide, Hawaiian and a number of other airlines are actively looking for additional leased 767s for the next few years while waiting to take delivery of their currently ordered 787s / A350s or consider their options on which way they go on the 787 / A350 decision.

Many lessors will be reluctant to put 10-12 year old 767s into an American legacy carrier given many of them are in Chapter 11, just coming out of C11 or likely to go in to divest themselves of their pension obligations.

Besides overseas 767 operators don't have Chapter 11 to dive into to screw the lessors and are often as profitable as the majors in the US.

Unicorn


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 6):
I would say that Hawaiian would be the most likely choice for at least 2-3 of these planes.

This topic was also in the repo man thread, but I will restate my answer here...

Hawaiian needs planes to launch JFK, Japan, others. They would also like to add another Vegas route at least on the weekends, as LAS is the number one destination for Hawaii residents (#2 being Disneyland).

Hawaiian uses only 717s locally (obviously), and 763ERs overseas. Hawaiian 763ERs have P&W engines.

Thus, Hawaiian is a likely customer for as many as they can afford to lease, and considering that few others use P&W and want more, they may get favorable terms...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Don't rule out that some / all may return to UA.

User currently offlineACB777 From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Would the UA 763ERs have commonality with the AC 763ER's? I know AC has both P&W 763ER aircraft and GE 763ER aircraft, the latter acquired from the Canadian merger.

User currently offlineTspencer83 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Alot of people have said that airlines prefer the GE-engined 767s over the PWs. Can someone explain why this is? Thanks

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

I'm sure someone can, but Hawaiian chose the PWs, and their jets are relatively new (first delivery 10/2001). They chose PW for their engine performance and the service contract as a whole.

http://www.utc.com/press/releases/2002-02-07.htm



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

I hope HA gets some of these aircrafts!

Is NA a GE or PW operator?

Rob!


User currently offlineSimes From Australia, joined May 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

What's to say they can't be leased on favourable terms for an airline, forgot the type of lease it's called  boggled 
but basically the lease company's responsible for maintainence etc.


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3654 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2839 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
They chose PW for their engine performance and the service contract as a whole.

Not exactly. HA got the PW's because they were already selected for the first 3 767s they leased from Ansett Worldwide. These 3 planes were already being built and Ansett didn't have a leasee yet.


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