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Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!  
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Beware the US pre-clearance in Ireland

So, I just returned from a Memorial Day trip to Ireland. I experienced the INS pre-clearance in DUB on the way back and this is what this report is about.

Two words: Lines galore!

Line 1 – Pre check-in line
Before the actual check-in, there’s this Irish dude standing at a makeshift counter with a handheld device. You’ve got to wait for him to ask you your name and see your ticket. He then enters some information into the device. I’ve no idea what that does.

Line 2 – Check-in line
The usual line for check-in.

Line 3 – Security line
A massive, massive line that snakes around and around the bowels of Dublin Airport. Feels like I’m back in America already because I have to remove my shoes, belt, watch and take the laptop out of its bag. Place everything in plastic trays – just like the beloved TSA.
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.  mad  hissyfit 

Line 4 – Pre-INS line
Once through security, there’s a few minutes walk to the B gates, from where all flights to America depart. Here, there’s another counter with another line. This time, the woman is checking to see if you have filled out the Customs and Immigration forms. A ton of people had not, which wasn’t surprising because the people at check-in never told anyone they would need to do this in advance.  crazy  Most passengers do these forms on the plane and that’s what they expected to do here as well.
If your forms aren’t completed, you’re turned away and sent to complete them and join the line again. At the end.  crazy 
No matter that the next line, for Immigration, is even longer and slower than the security line.  crazy 

Line 5 – INS line
4 US-bound flights departing around the same time. 3 Immigration desks open. INS agents dawdling and talking on their cell phones. Imagine the horror.
This line just went on and on and on and took forever. All the while, the DL agents are going spastic on the PA system: “Flight 128 to Atlanta is closing at gate B32”. How? There are around 50 people still in the damn INS line!

Line 6 – Boarding line (at the gate area)
Even though the flight was closing (closed?), there’s still a big line at the boarding gate.

Line 7 – Security line (in the jetway)
Agent: “Did security ask you some questions already?”
Me: “No.”
Agent: “Who packed your bag?”
Me: “Me.”
Agent: “Was your bag with you at all times?”
Me: “Yes”

And so on.
Apparently, if I had said I had already been asked these questions, they wouldn’t have asked again.  smirk 

Line 8 – Waiting-for-people-to-clear-the-aisles line
 banghead 


To add to that, it's not like arriving in ATL on an international flight is a breeze. ATL has got to have the worst designed international arrivals procedure in the history of the world. banghead 

Sure we didn't have to wait for immigration since we did all that waiting in line in Ireland. But it's still a massive pain:
Line 9 – Wait to deplane
Line 10 – Wait until your bags finally show up
Line 11 – Wait in line to go through customs
Line 12 – Wait in line to dump your bags back on the belt
Line 13 – Wait in line for security (remove shoes, belt, laptop…)
Line 14 – Wait in line for the train
Line 15 – Wait for your bags to show up again in the main claim area


End verdict:  thumbsdown 
Pre-clearance is of no benefit at all to the passenger. If I absolutely have to wait in endless lines, I’d rather wait at the end of the trip, so I don’t have to worry about missing the flight. I have flown into ATL from other foreign cities. CDG-ATL, for example, was far less painful than DUB-ATL. Though the ATL end of the deal is always a torture.

Just like I said in the beginning: Beware the US pre-clearance in Ireland!

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3860 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11464 times:

Ouch! To me it always sounded like a simple procedure... thank god I've never done it!

User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11422 times:

Sounds like a real pain and judging from your description I would say that pre-clearance in DUB is rather a disadvantage.

Patrick


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

Thank goodness pre-clearance in Canada isn't that bad.

User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11160 times:

I Dont Inderstand they dont Inspect ur Bags Like in Canada so you can Arrive as a "Domestic" Pax ???

User currently offlineSeamus From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11157 times:

I have not had the same experience. Have only done DUB-ORD direct once, (usually transit through LHR), about two years ago, and it wasn't bad. I especially enjoyed zipping through immigration at ORD on the return.

Regards,


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11060 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
To me it always sounded like a simple procedure

Sounded that way to me too Vasu. In reality, after having experienced it yesterday, not so simple!

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 2):
Sounds like a real pain and judging from your description I would say that pre-clearance in DUB is rather a disadvantage.

Patrick, it's most definitely not an advantage to the passengers - at least that's what I concluded after a horrible day. And arriving in ATL doesn't help matters one bit. Only makes them much worse.

Quoting Seamus (Reply 5):
I have not had the same experience. Have only done DUB-ORD direct once, (usually transit through LHR), about two years ago, and it wasn't bad. I especially enjoyed zipping through immigration at ORD on the return.

Maybe I just had the misfortune of DUB on a bad day, I don't know. But it's not an experience I'd like to repeat, that's for sure. Next time, if I'm ever in Ireland again, I think I'll connect through CDG or something!


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.

Must be only DUB, because everytime I have flown on AA out of MIA and even SFO they have "Elite Security Entrance" Lines for AA First Class, Business and AAdvantage (gold + ) members...


Well I guess I would rather make the line at DUB before departing to the U.S., that way you get to the U.S. and your ready to go!



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11025 times:

Gosh, you should have connected in SNN and made the trip. It is a breeze there. If you have a U.S. passport, you go through before everyone else. Of course some do not like it, but it is some rule or something they have. It suited me fine.

Hope you had fun in DUB!

M


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11009 times:

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 7):
Must be only DUB, because everytime I have flown on AA out of MIA and even SFO they have "Elite Security Entrance" Lines for AA First Class, Business and AAdvantage (gold + ) members...

Well I guess I would rather make the line at DUB before departing to the U.S., that way you get to the U.S. and your ready to go!

Many airports have separate security lines for Premium or Elite passengers. Hell, if ATL didn't have one, I'd probably miss every single Monday morning flight!  Smile
I was surprised DUB doesn't have one.

As for being ready to go when arriving in the US from Ireland, that's what I thought it would be too. But, reality turned out to be very different.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11000 times:

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 9):
reality turned out to be very different.

This is so because the Irish refused to permit US Customs PFI in addition to Immigration PFI at the facilities in Dublin and Shannon. There is a restriction on the value of items that can be sold (eg. in Duty Free stores) after completing Customs PFI and the revenue lost to the airport by denying those sales is substantial. Hence, the PFI facility at Irish airports is a half-clearance deal where you can go shopping but still have to clear customs at the actual POE.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

why do you have to go through security again in Atlanta to get to baggage claim?

Also, it's not called INS anymore. It's DHS, right?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10929 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 10):
This is so because the Irish refused to permit US Customs PFI in addition to Immigration PFI at the facilities in Dublin and Shannon. There is a restriction on the value of items that can be sold (eg. in Duty Free stores) after completing Customs PFI and the revenue lost to the airport by denying those sales is substantial. Hence, the PFI facility at Irish airports is a half-clearance deal where you can go shopping but still have to clear customs at the actual POE.

That's interesting since the Irish seem to have given in to every other demand, including security and immigration.

And speaking of immigration, here's another little tidbit from my trip.

My outbound routing was ATL-CDG-LCY. And not once was I asked by a government agent to show my passport. In fact, the only time I showed my passport to anyone was at check in and to board the plane. There did not seem to be an immigration desk at LCY at all, so I basically sneaked in and out of the UK without Her Majesty's Government ever knowing I was ever even there!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
why do you have to go through security again in Atlanta to get to baggage claim?

Also, it's not called INS anymore. It's DHS, right?

You will have to ask the ATL airport planners to answer that. I have tried, but have not been able to come up with any valid reason. Security at DUB or FRA, for example, is way better than security at BMI or FSD.

And since the new name of the INS is long and convoluted, I'm sticking with the old one!


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10889 times:

Wow, I went DUBEWR last July and breezed right through. Granted I work for an airline so they don't usually waste a lot of time on me but at both ends, DUB and EWR it was just as fast as you please. Of course it also helps when you are sitting in 1 seat from the door!  bigthumbsup 

Also, samething here at IAH. When you come in from an international flight you have to go through security all over again. Lot of people get upset at that since they feel they've gotten the run around enough by going through customs and now they are feeling like they are really running behind to catch their connector.


User currently offlineMagyar From Hungary, joined Feb 2000, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10873 times:

This is ridicoulous! I wonder what the
US would do if another country asked
for preclearance at US airports.
I just don't see what is the deal in this
"preclearance'' for Ireland or Canada.


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10854 times:

Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.

Why must you elites always whine when there is not a seperate line for you? Just because you fly a lot does NOT mean you are better then anyone else..

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10855 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 13):
Also, samething here at IAH. When you come in from an international flight you have to go through security all over again.

You have to do the same at ORD as well, but only if you're connecting to another flight. And I guess it's because you have to exit the terminal and then go to your departing terminal landside. Is that the case in IAH as well?

In ATL, it doesn't matter if you're connecting or if you end your journey here. Everyone needs to go through security again, even if you just want to exit the damn airport.  crazy 

Quoting Magyar (Reply 14):
This is ridicoulous! I wonder what the
US would do if another country asked
for preclearance at US airports

I wouldn't like this concept if I were the "other" country. But, to be fair, I believe it is a reciprocal agreement, where Canada and Ireland are free to position their immigration officers for preclearance at American airports if they want.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10827 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

That first post could be an advertisement for Netjets.

 biggrin 


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10814 times:

We at Aruba (AUA) have US pre-clearance too. Makes traveling to the USA much more easier, but a pain when handling US bound flights, due to all the paperwork you have to hand in at a specific time, like General Declarations and API.

Globe Trekker



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10787 times:

Is the Ireland thing new? Most other countries signed pre-clearance treaties with the Kennedy Administration, IIRC. I really don't know whether it is easier, but my uncle worked the lines in Toronto for a few years in the 70, so it kept him working. Then he moved to the lines at IAH, then LAX.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineVenezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1427 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

GLobbeTrekker,

I did pre-clerance in AUA and it was a breeze, they sure have changed the airport from, the first time I went there 1997 to the last time 2001. AUA has both customs and INS clearance, it was so nice landing at MIA and not having to go throguh all the lines and hassel in MIA



ROLL TIDE!!!
User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10732 times:

Quote:
GLobbeTrekker,

I did pre-clerance in AUA and it was a breeze, they sure have changed the airport from, the first time I went there 1997 to the last time 2001. AUA has both customs and INS clearance, it was so nice landing at MIA and not having to go throguh all the lines and hassel in MIA

Glad to hear that. AUA paid a lot of money to implement pre-clearance at the airport. Everything had to be build to the specifications of customs and INS.
The whole reasoning is to make thing easier for American tourists, as most tourist to AUA come from North America.
The big players here are AA with flights from SJU, JFK, BOS and MIA, CO from EWR and IAH, US from CLT, PHL and BOS and DL & Song from ATL and JFK. Not to mention the countless charters like UPS, Apple, Ryan International, ATA, NA etc. etc.

Americans really seem to appreciate this "extra" service.......

Globe Trekker



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10664 times:

What I don't understand about your story is that if you were pre-cleared in Ireland, why would you have to go through customs in the US? If you're pre-cleared, then you're pre-cleared. After you arrive at you destination, pick up your bags and go! Or am I missing something here?


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineKevinDCA From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 105 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10608 times:

It's a partial clear, ACDC8. You go through immigration only so you can duty-free shop to your hearts content and deal with that in the US, as B747-437B mentioned. Half-clearance such as that in Ireland makes no sense to me. What a waste of space at the airport, a waste of manpower, needless expense all around. Oh well, maybe it's good in that it avoids those "no-fly-list diversions", lol!

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10596 times:

Quoting KevinDCA (Reply 23):
It's a partial clear, ACDC8. You go through immigration only so you can duty-free shop to your hearts content and deal with that in the US,

OK I see. I thought it was the same like the pre-clearance from Canada to the US. Thanks.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
25 MAH4546 : Pre-clearance in Ireland and Canada is very different. The pre-clearance that you have in Canada (and Bermuda, Aruba, and two airports in the Bahamas
26 SLC1 : I have several times done pre-clearance AUA, YVR, YYC, YYZ and must say that I enjoy it, especially if I have a transfer later. While AUA pre-clearanc
27 Dstc47 : Preclearance in Ireland is, for non US citizens in particular, a huge benefit over clearance at point of entry. Not alone is it usually faster, less b
28 7LBAC111 : Ditto with that - worked at SNN for years and it alsways made things so much quicker. However, at peak times, and in particular at DUB, it can be a n
29 Cory6188 : How does it work upon arrival into the US if you still have to go through customs? Do they wave arriving Ireland passengers past the immigration count
30 Phollingsworth : Because there is currently no way for you to exit the airport without going through the secure area. When you go through Customs you have access to c
31 Gilligan : In EWR they just waved us past the immigrations boothes and on into the area where your luggage arrives. You still have to go past the last line of c
32 Misbeehavin : You just walk past the immigration counters, along one side. There's no need to show anyone anything, as there are usually a couple of agents pointin
33 Misbeehavin : This is what the latest edition of Business & Finance magazine (an Irish publication) had to say about Dublin Airport and Aer Rianta: "Building and e
34 Drinkstrolley : Although not totally relevant, there was recently a incident at Dublin airport where the press made a complete mockery of security with undercover rep
35 TWAL1011 : Wow sounds pretty bad for you. I travel to Ireland at least once a month on business and have found Dublin Airport and the US Pre-Clearance to be a br
36 Apodino : I have read a lot of complaining about the ATL international arrivals and I will give you guys some background on this. Before Concouse E was built, I
37 Post contains images Standby87 : No, but the elites and the F/J pax pay a lot more for their tickets. Simple hey?
38 Birdbrainz : I just flew from Cork, Ireland to LAX via Heathrow, and didn't experience anything unusual, other than a hand-screening of my bags at the gate in Cork
39 IrishMD11 : Dear friends, Any Government, particularly Irish, would be happy to announce the creation of a few extra jobs...keeps everybody busy,no?. Nowadays, i
40 Greenjet : Although not totally relevant, there was recently a incident at Dublin airport where the press made a complete mockery of security with undercover rep
41 ETStar : Good. Immigration should not give preferential treatments. Clearance at Canadian stations is not as bad as you stated, but can be as long as 15 minut
42 Misbeehavin : LOL! It's not so bad! But you do have to go through immigration even if you're connecting at DUB. I was amazed to learn that DUB does not have a tran
43 NASBWI : Ouch! I'll never complain about the pre-clearance lines in NAS again! lol. It's usually only really bad in the middle of the day/early afternoon (when
44 ScottB : Blah, blah, blah, yet another anti-American rant. I'm not sure that any other country has asked to build pre-clearance facilities in the U.S., given
45 Pilottj : Preclearance- sounds like a term that George Carlin could have fun with.
46 Misbeehavin : Oh! As much as I loved Ireland, I have other misgivings about Dublin Airport. If it weren't for the accents and the complete absence of Latin America
47 Palladium : - You are wrong Chris.... , This is why every airlines in the world has their own private club for frequent flyers/first/business class passengers. Y
48 FlyinHigh : You hit the nail right on the head greenjet. Actually I think the whole lot needs to be rebuilt. It was never built to handle the volumes that it cur
49 Post contains images Greenjet : Yes the airport is a mess really. An extension here, an extension there but the planning (or lack of) has been shocking. I work at DUB every day and
50 EI321 : Both times that I have arrived into JFK from DUB there was sombody there to check my passport and stuff as I exited the baggage hall. They seem to do
51 Post contains images Misbeehavin : LOL! Do you know if the cabinet meeting resulted in any agreement to improve the airport? Or maybe to tear it down and re-build it from scratch?
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