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B6 296 BUR-JFK Fuel Stop  
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

so this is interesting, all day the flights make it nonstop, then while it's cooler out, the night flight stops in slc for fuel, just got to slc at 1142pm, must be the winds again, but would think that it being cooler at night wouldnt cause that. i was in the s.f valley earlier today and the weather wasn't bad, drove down to sna for my hp flight and it was overcast, the june gloom in l.a., but no winds

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26026 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Enroute winds and thunderstorms in the Midwest lead to the need for a stop enroute.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

I'm curious - why SLC? There are other cities more on the direct route.

I know B6 doesn't have any 319's, but would that be a better choice for BUR-JFK?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26026 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

Suspect SLC was chosen tonight as its along the way for the route of flight, its an online station, and had staff on duty covering their own JFK flight during the evening hours anyways.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

It's either SLC or LAS, depending on the flight plan, no?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 572 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Yes....there was a lot of storm activity over the midwest today. We flew DTW-DEN and finally DEN-MCI. On our first leg out of DTW, we had to take an alternate routing more northerly than usual. Once on the ground, the ramp was closed due to lightning activity. Once we were on our way, we had a BUMPY ride all the way to MCI. The lightning shows outside our window were spectacular at 37,000 feet. We flew right below the storm (south), although we did see a couple of aircraft enter the storm clouds. Interesting day for weather. Even our captain, who has flown for over 30 years says that he hasn't been on a flight as bumpy as ours in years.

Fly safe everyone.

Cheers!

AirplaneBoy


User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

I know B6 can do no evil, but one of these days I wish the (aeronautically educated) flying public would take them to task for these transcontinental non-stops that are, in fact, diverting for technical reasons (i.e. fuel.) Jet Blue is using the A320 at the extreme end of its performance envelope from BUR to JFK. The same technical stops occur out of Long Beach and westbound out of BOS to the west coast.

If United or Delta were stopping as frequently to re-fuel enroute, the howls of protest would reach from corporate headquarters all the way to Washington. But being Jet Blue they escape under the radar. So far. They are so well liked that some in the general public have suggested that B6 fly to HNL out of JFK non-stop...in an A320.

Now that's one trick I'd like to see.


User currently offlineBpat777 From United States of America, joined exactly 15 years ago today! , 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Excellent post Highflier92660..There seems to be a double standard when it comes to B6 and the legacy carriers..It often seems to me that B6 can do no wrong according to some of the post on A.net..

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

What I would like to see is a reduction of 1 LAX-JFK Song flight and the addition of two JFK-BUR flights. The 757 would ensure the flights are non-stop coming and going.

User currently offlineJblake1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

I would be pissed if I was on a "non-stop" flight and had to stop for fuel. This "technical" stop has got to add at least an hour onto the flight; if not more.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 4416 times:
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Good Morning,
Does anyone know if B6 has ever considered getting 319s to deal with this specific purpose as well as for thinner, transcon routes? This seems like it would be a good idea?
Have a good day.
LACA773


User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2688 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

I think if this becomes a habit (which appears it might)... the flying public will eventually catch on. (Then again, I might be over estimating the public!!)


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 9):
I would be pissed if I was on a "non-stop" flight and had to stop for fuel. This "technical" stop has got to add at least an hour onto the flight; if not more.

I keep hearing how common it is, but it can't be that common, since I've never had it happen and I've flown all over the world and around the US tons, just not on B6. And I don't recall anyone in my family telling me about one, either, and they also fly a lot. Only fuel stop ever for me was an AA777 out of NRT that had to be diverted because texas was closed, and we landed in DEN. We needed more fuel to get back to DFW, but that's not just a minor reroute. That was a whole state closed due to storms and 2.5 extra hours in the air.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8031 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 8):
What I would like to see is a reduction of 1 LAX-JFK Song flight and the addition of two JFK-BUR flights. The 757 would ensure the flights are non-stop coming and going.

Mind you, the 757-200 carries way more fuel and has better takeoff performance than the A320, so BUR-JFK nonstop year-round is not an issue. That's why the late National Airlines (N7) flew the 752--the plane could operate out of LAS even in Las Vegas' hottest summers to fly all the way to JFK with no pax/cargo restrictions.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
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Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 5):
Yes....there was a lot of storm activity over the midwest today. We flew DTW-DEN and finally DEN-MCI. On our first leg out of DTW, we had to take an alternate routing more northerly than usual. Once on the ground, the ramp was closed due to lightning activity. Once we were on our way, we had a BUMPY ride all the way to MCI. The lightning shows outside our window were spectacular at 37,000 feet. We flew right below the storm (south), although we did see a couple of aircraft enter the storm clouds. Interesting day for weather. Even our captain, who has flown for over 30 years says that he hasn't been on a flight as bumpy as ours in years.

Fly safe everyone.

Cheers!

AirplaneBoy

Maybe this explains the fuel stop, weather, people something the airline has no control over?



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1534 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

It's not just B6...

Fuel stops are not that uncommon. UAX (YV) used to have to fuel stop their CR7s in MCI when they flew RDU DEN about 1-2 times a week. (UA decided to susequently ax that route anyway)

EGL has to fuel stop their E135-E145s in JAN quite often on the way from RDU to AUS.

While these aren't "mainline" flights, they're sold under mainline brands...



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Thread starter):
all day the flights make it nonstop, then while it's cooler out, the night flight stops in slc for fuel

Just wait until we get a Santa Ana wind and every BUR-JFK flight for the day will need a fuel stop. Under those conditions, they could probably not even make it to SLC. They would probably have to stop at ONT or LAS.

I wonder if this is what B6 was expecting or if it is worse. Obviously B6 knew that BUR was going to be an operational problem, but I guess they wanted to take the opportunity of Aloha's departure to get into BUR since they have maxed out LGB. The final frontier in Los Angeles is now ONT.


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

JetBlue makes one fuel stop out of BUR and now all of a sudden there are "operational issues"?! Are you kidding me?

I know that the fuel situation leaving LGB and OAK (and now BUR) in the winter can be tough for the A320 but I didn't think the occasional tech stop was a big deal. If 99% of their LGB, OAK and BUR flights are non-stop, that is good enough for me.

BTW- my father flew JetBlue a lot into and out of OAK a couple of years ago. Not once did he have to make a tech stop for fuel on any eastbound flight.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineGreenguy01 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 6):
The same technical stops occur out of Long Beach and westbound out of BOS to the west coast.

The fuel stops out of LGB last summer were caused by the main runway being closed for runway construction on Saturdays. JetBlue knew about this ahead of time and built the fuel stop into the schedule and notified their customers when they bought tickets on those flights.



Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

JetBlue will have its challenges with the BUR-JFK route, and while an occassional fuel stop for operational reasons is not a big deal, it will become a very big deal if it happens regularly......I am sure that we will hear more on this issue after a few months time. The A320 has some limitations on trans-con routes, but at BUR the bigger issue is the runways and the winds encountered at that airport.

Aside from pax issues (who tend to find unschedule stops an inconvenience and, for some reason, upsetting), unscheduled stops cost an airline money, upsets connections and causes all kinds of scheduling and operational problems.....JetBlue keeps its aircraft on tight schedules and the delays that result from unplanned stops will cost JetBlue money.

The BUR-JFK flights are already limited to 135 passengers - leaving 20 seats empty on every flight already limits profits, and if unscheduled fuel stops become an constant issue, JetBlue will take a close look at the numbers and profit potential of the BUR-JFK route.


User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2449 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 9):
would be pissed if I was on a "non-stop" flight and had to stop for fuel

Considering that things can change once a plane is airbone... given the option of spending an hour in Salt Lake City or not getting to my destination, I'll take the tour of Salt Lake please.

There was quite a lengthy thread on this last week. Are we going to have a thread on this everytime one stops for fuel? We could combine it with the Peter Max threads... "Where is Peter Max, and Where did jetBlue stop for gas?"  Smile



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 20):
There was quite a lengthy thread on this last week. Are we going to have a thread on this everytime one stops for fuel?

I do find it a bit silly that every unexpected fuel stop JetBlue makes is news on airliners. I do agree that there should be no fuel stops in a perfect world but that is not the case. I really don't think the fuel stops are a frequent or common event.

BTW, my source at JetBlue has informed me that passengers who are on flights that are delayed for tech/fuel reasons are usually compensated a nominal amount. I guess it is better than nothing.

Again, I ask, why is this news? Obviously some people in here have nothing better to discuss.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6808 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
Again, I ask, why is this news? Obviously some people in here have nothing better to discuss.

It is news because many people figured that jetBlue would be making tech stops on the BUR-JFK flights on a fairly regular basis, even with seats blocked on the aircraft. In the first ten days of the route (29 flights, since the 7 AM departure started 5/25), there have been at least two eastbound tech stops -- and this is without high summer temperatures or Santa Ana winds. By my rough calculations, that says that 7% of their eastbound departures have made a pit stop on the way to JFK -- and that's no tiny amount. But even with those added costs, I don't doubt that the yields on the flights will make up for it.

Besides, there is a thread for every random ferry/charter/whatever flight someone manages to find on a flight tracking website. Are you surprised?

Go have another glass of blue Kool-Aid and take a nice nap.


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3017 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
The BUR-JFK flights are already limited to 135 passengers - leaving 20 seats empty on every flight already limits profits, and if unscheduled fuel stops become an constant issue, JetBlue will take a close look at the numbers and profit potential of the BUR-JFK route.

If it is limited to 135 passengers, it really needs an A319.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 22):
Besides, there is a thread for every random ferry/charter/whatever flight someone manages to find on a flight tracking website. Are you surprised?

Go have another glass of blue Kool-Aid and take a nice nap.

Nice Scott. However, what annoys the crap out of me is that the same people who piss and moan about JetBlue making an occasional tech stop are the same ones who downplay the fact that JetBlue has an excellent service record as far as lost bags, cancelled flights, customer complaints.... should I go on?

I am well aware that the A320 out of BUR to the east coast is a struggle. Frankly, I was surprised they selected Burbank as one of their new cities but if they feel it will work, then good I say. The 135 pax number is about 20 fewer than capacity on their A320s but if they run high load factors (which I suspect they will), they should be alright.

I hope that the BUR tech stops are infrequent but I just find it funny that something so trivial as one stop makes the headlines on airliners. People like ScottB need to wake up and get real.



None shall pass!!!!
25 N1120A : Actually, the capacity would be outstripped, and given B6's no overbooking policy, it would not be good. The 738 would have been better No they don't
26 JetBluefan1 : It has been more than 1. The first one, on the first day of operation, stopped in BUF You misunderstood what I was trying to say in that topic where I
27 N200WN : I thought that it was determined in last weeks thread on this subject that the first fuel stop at BUF was a result of WX/ATC issues at JFK. And this
28 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : Ok people it is the 2nd out of like 30 flights. That is pretty good b/c people were saying it would never really make it and have to stop alot. I don'
29 N1120A : My point was that it wasn't their first fuel stop
30 Flyboy7974 : what confused me that you all missed about this, both daytime flights made it nonstop, why the 9pm when the temp is cooler, was it the winds at 9pm
31 OPNLguy : >>>what confused me that you all missed about this, both daytime flights made it nonstop, why the 9pm when the temp is cooler, was it the winds at 9pm
32 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>Only fuel stop ever for me was an AA777 out of NRT that had to be diverted because texas was closed, and we landed in DEN. We needed more fuel to g
33 JetBluefan1 : N1120A, You said: It has been more than 1. The first one, on the first day of operation, stopped in BUF That is untrue. The inaugural day was just fin
34 Post contains images LY4XELD : I agree with OPNLguy...when did Texas close? And any time someone sneezes at the majors, it also seems to be a thread starter for a nice complaint se
35 SunValley : The "lilly white" at B6 is fast becoming a little beige. A Weather Warning prior to siezing the captive group would noramlly be in order, however the
36 Luv2fly : And yet they are still turning a profit.
37 SunValley : Luv, So when they start hemoraging the cash will they still be your hero? Unions will be arriving on their door step soon....
38 Luv2fly : Yeah those unions really sunk WN did they not
39 PassBureauMgr : But dwindling!
40 Luv2fly : Money is money and I am sure AA, CO, DL, NW, UA and US would gladly take the dwindling profit.
41 PassBureauMgr : Give luvvy a blue ribbon. What do you have an MBA in jetBlue?
42 Luv2fly : Sarcasm when proven wrong, how mature!
43 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>A Weather Warning prior to siezing the captive group would noramlly be in order, however the MO at B6 is get them on the plane, then make the annou
44 Goldenshield : Or in our case, "We make the call."
45 OPNLguy : >>>Or in our case, "We make the call." Glad I'm not doing so tonight--you get a load of that line in the midwest? Tops to FL700 according to an email
46 SHUPirate1 : All airlines do that. The primary reason this is done, however, is because a flight isn't assigned an ATC slot (or wheels-up time) until they actuall
47 Commavia : Why would B6 ever start a route where it knew -- going into it -- that it would always be handicapped by at least 13% capacity? They seemed to be doi
48 OPNLguy : >>>they will often push back on-time, as if everything is OK, and THEN inform you that your destination airport is groundstopped for the next hour and
49 FA4B6 : It's strategy. It allows B6 to "surround" LAX without having to fly directly into LAX, BUR has a huge convenience factor and therefore B6 can a fare
50 Goldenshield : I did, and it sucks, royally. I have a few flights that would normally go straight through the middle of that.
51 Ikramerica : The real question here is: "did Jet Blue overshoot the mark by trying to fly an A320 from BUR-JFK, when the plane is not suited for it?" It is not tr
52 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>It was two years ago in June, something like the 13th or so, not exactly sure, but I could look it up if you really want... No need to... They just
53 Post contains images Ikramerica : Whatever. Believe what you will. You weren't on the plane, you just want to be an a$$ because you know better than me the events of that day 2 years a
54 N1120A : Oi, given OPNLguy's expertise on the subject, namely that he is a lead dispatcher for one of the largest airlines in the world, I think he knows what
55 BigB : I remember that day. I thought I had went to hell since I worked that evening. Didn't get off of work at HOU till like 1 am, and I heard flights were
56 OPNLguy : >>>Whatever. Believe what you will. You weren't on the plane, you just want to be an a$$ because you know better than me the events of that day 2 year
57 Laxintl : Well todays morning Burbank (JBU290) departure did not quite make JFK nonstop. Stopped enroute at Richmond Virginia for fuel. The NY area has been exp
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