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Why Can't DL Make Profit Despite ATL Superhub?  
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7628 times:

Delta Airlines one of the major American carriers based at the busiest airport in the world with 80 million pax annually and in control of most operations can't make profit.
I know the fuel prices are sky high but with such a big market at ATL DL should be able to make some profit or not?

Sander


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2264 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

Ah, they think it's still 1970?


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineJumpseat70 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

I don't think anyone is interested in rehashing this with you. Do you live in a bubble? or are you just itching for a fight? Delta isn't the only airline NOT making a profit. And I guess if you really want to know the answer you can research the comments in the archives on this website alone.

Price of the airline ticket would be the first place I'd look. Then the increase of refined oil prices might be the second. Otherwise, you could go to DAL on the stock exchange reports and read all the negative stuff about the airlines.


User currently onlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Aviationfreak, while delta does have a "super-hub" in ATL you must remember that many people lately (me not being one) have complained about DL and have started to choose other options like FL (Which is a fine airline in my eyes) so maybe competition from FL and the bitterness of the employees (which again I say I have not witnessed, but many say is there) has started to effect their business in ATL.
Just my thoughts,
Brandon  Smile



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 3):
Aviationfreak, while delta does have a "super-hub" in ATL you must remember that many people lately (me not being one) have complained about DL and have started to choose other options like FL (Which is a fine airline in my eyes) so maybe competition from FL and the bitterness of the employees (which again I say I have not witnessed, but many say is there) has started to effect their business in ATL.
Just my thoughts,
Brandon

The sheer scope of DL's operation would likely mitigate any ill-will from pax in terms of dollars and cents if that were the only issue affecting profits. The bottom line is that the revenue generated by DL, despite its super hub in ATL and elsewhere is not enough to cover the cost of the operating the airline, and therefore yield a profit...period.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

The only difference between DL's ATL hub and other airline hub operations is that DL is disproportionately focused at ATL.

DL has always had a higher percentage of its operations at ATL versus CVG, SLC, and the now-defunct DFW hub. If you look at AA, its operations are more evenly spread out through DFW, ORD, MIA, and STL. NW is more evenly distributed between MSP and DTW. UA is relatively evenly split between ORD and DEN.

Basically, the volume DL has at ATL is made up for by relatively small hub operations at CVG and SLC. Once you realize that, it's no different from any other legacy carrier.

In fact, as much as I hate connecting at ATL, I wouldn't be surprised if ATL hurts DL. It is quite delay-prone in the summer months, and there used to be a saying that "no Delta flight in the free world can bypass Atlanta." I'd much rather fly non-stop if possible.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2829 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

Quoting Aviationfreak (Thread starter):
Delta Airlines one of the major American carriers based at the busiest airport in the world with 80 million pax annually and in control of most operations can't make profit.
I know the fuel prices are sky high but with such a big market at ATL DL should be able to make some profit or not?

As someone who travels thru ATL fairly frequently, DL's placement of all of their eggs in the ATL basket is not particularly wise. What they are trying to do is grab the economy of scale and cheap connect costs with a mega hub, but their hub is not geographically centered, is prone to weather delays, and they have little pricing power on what should be some lucrative routes due to FL.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Ah, they think it's still 1970?

Coffee all over the computer, thanks for the morning laugh!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 3):
you must remember that many people lately (me not being one) have complained about DL and have started to choose other options like FL

Delta's share of ATL passengers is up not down, they still yield 20% higher than Airtran on competing routes.

There are many reasons for Delta's financial situation but here are some in order of importance besides oil prices.

1) Delta's domestic routes are lower yielding than other majors due the high degree of LCC competition.

2) Delta's labor rates have been until recently, the tops in the industry and are still higher than average.

3) Delta was performing more in-house maintenance work than other carriers.

4) Delta's utilization rates were not as high as LCCs'

5) Delta's debt service is the worst in the industry at 6/10ths of 1 cent on a CASM basis.

But their transformation program is addressing most of these issues and the CFO has stated non-fuel CASM will be down 13% this year and a good amount next year.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 6):
DL's placement of all of their eggs in the ATL basket is not particularly wise. What they are trying to do is grab the economy of scale and cheap connect costs with a mega hub, but their hub is not geographically centered, is prone to weather delays

Now this is not true at all. ATL taken by itself is the most profitable hub and has a superb geographic location. Just above the huge Florida market, the only significant Southeast hub for Transatlantic flights, far enough South to make it a good Latin America connector.

And as far as delays go ATL has seen huge improvements in on-time since their rolling hub was put in. In fact in May Delta will have the highest on-time in the industry. When was the last time that happened?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7237 times:

IMHO, DL's problems (and losses) have much less to do with ATL and much more to do with high fixed costs that management has largely ignored, even since 9/11, compared with AA and CO. DL management has been too busy building Song, fighting with the pilots, etc., and as a result DL now has one of the highest cost structures of any U.S. carrier.

As for ATL, specifically, IMO, DL has been smart to retreat from where it was weak to build up where it is strong. Pulling down DFW was one of the smartest things DL management has done in years, and the continued shrinkage of mainline operations at CVG and SLC are obviously part of DL's strategy to pretty much make ATL the mainline hub and everything else RJ. Whether or not this strategy will work out, only time will tell, and of course any DL FFs know that this strategy must be questioned by DL passengers and management alike whenever one of those great summer thunderstorms comes rolling into ATL and knocks out seemingly half of the DL system!


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
and as a result DL now has one of the highest cost structures of any U.S. carrier.

Delta now has the lowest CASM of the full service carriers now. You must take out the Delta Connection traffic when comparing Delta to AA/CO/UA etc. as they are the only airline that publishes this together.


User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

The hub is not the problem here. DL's problems are related to fixed expenses out of line with the current environment, none of which have to do with the use of a massive hub offering massive connection possibilities worldwide.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

Just to give you an example of how huge ATL is to Delta's revenue. Back when Delta had 8 or 9 banks of flights during the day. The 5th bank that included the 4PM-6PM departures including International flights brought in more revenue to Delta than the entire hub of CVG during the whole 24hrs of operation.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7113 times:

ATL isn't necessarily the problem, but look at SLC and CVG.

Those two hubs primarily rely on low volume, high-CASM RJ's feeding other low-volume high CASM RJ's. This model might work if yields were particularly high, but yields have fallen even in markets with no LCC's. DFW had a similar problem (only to a more extreme extent) and that's why DL had to close it.

DL's also had a hard time in core markets like JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO and TPA due to extreme LCC pressure.

So even if ATL is profitable, the rest of the DL network could easily drag it down.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7094 times:

Much of the pricing pressure is off CVG. They've witnessed CMH's demise as a hub, CLE's reductions, PIT's reductions, and IND's demise. With ORD's capacity problems making them more O&D oriented, DTW is the really only full service hub that competes with them for connecting business.

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7047 times:

If they'd phase out the RJ's in favor of Embraer 170's and Q400's they do better on the regional routes. Using two 70 seaters as your regional feeder balances capacity across the regional system vs. some 30, some 50, and some 70 seaters. The last part of the equation is the prolific use of RJ's has reduced their cargo handling capacity exponentially. The Q400 and 170 don't have this problem, at least not on the scale that the -200 and -700 do. Granted the use of Fedex, UPS and the like has had a greater impact, but they don't even stand a chance of being competitive. You can't even ship a medium sized dog like a Labrador in a series 500 kennel on an RJ.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7051 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 15):
CLE's reductions

Being here in CLE pray tell the reductions you speak of? Also DL is hurting in CVG thanks to the closeness of other airport that offer lower fares, i.e. DAY, IND and SDF just to name a few.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7019 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 11):
Delta now has the lowest CASM of the full service carriers now.

AA and CO have operating costs considerably lower than DL's, thanks largely to DL's inefficient fleet and exorbatintly high pilot pay plan.

From 1Q05 numbers (AA, CO, DL):

AA mainline only CASM: 9.92 cents
CO mainline only CASM: 10.56 cents
DL mainline only CASM: 11.62 cents

DL's operating costs are far from the lowest of the legacy airlines.

[Edited 2005-06-03 18:15:05]

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

commavia you don't include 1x charges in CASM calculations, nor do you include Delta Connection traffic.

If you work work for an airline get yourself a copy of Aviation Daily, online to the right they have the CASM calculation excluding 1x charges and Delta Connection. You will find that DL was just barely above CO for the 2nd spot.

But that was then this is now. The full effects Delta's labor cuts (and CO's as well) will have kicked in and Delta will have assumed it's historic place as having the lowest CASM among the majors.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 17):
Being here in CLE pray tell the reductions you speak of

Surely you are aware of CO pulling out mainline fights? Pulling out of markets all together? Research this and get back to us.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6946 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 19):
commavia you don't include 1x charges in CASM calculations, nor do you include Delta Connection traffic

I am quoting directly here from DL's press release of 21 April 2005:

Mainline
Operating Cost Per Available Seat Mile - excluding special Items:

9.98

Per Delta, this excludes DCI, and it excludes special items, and their costs are still almost 10.0 cents, compared to lower numbers for both AA and CO. These are DL's own numbers. DL--mainline with or without regionals--does not have lower operating costs than AA or CO.

[Edited 2005-06-03 18:37:23]

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6927 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 20):
Surely you are aware of CO pulling out mainline fights? Pulling out of markets all together? Research this and get back to us.

I'll get back with you once you post the truth, and maybe you should stick to your bashing LCC's and your precious DL, which even though you post incorrectly at that, it makes for humorous reading when others shoot you down. Also since you are not in CLE and do not know the market enough said.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

COMMAVIA

Slow down and read what is being said here. I said "right now" Delta has the lowest cost among the majors. First you post bogus numbers including 1x charges, then you post Delta's numbers but don't compare them to AA which came out to be 9.80. Now Delta will see the full effects of their paycuts this quarter, their guidance say non-fuel cost will be 13% lower from this Quarter last year.

Will you take me up on a gentleman' bet the DL will have the lowest CASM among the full service carriers when 2Q numbers are posted?


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 22):
I'll get back with you once you post the truth

I knew you'd run away LOL Even if I asked the smallest question about CO and CLE you'd run away like a little girl. You absolutely cannot back your B.S.


25 Commavia : I know what I wrote. I, by accident, posted the wrong DL numbers the first time. I didn't make that mistake the second time. Not only does DL not hav
26 Luv2fly : Believe what you want with that weedwacker you call a brain! There is no game in arguing with an idiot on the internet and using up band with for no
27 Padcrasher : Well thank you for conceding that point. But in Delta's defense they are smack in the middle of a major cost overhaul, AA as you are aware is farther
28 Padcrasher : Oh I'm sorry I misread your post. Delta does not have the lowest cost now? You conceded nothing. Very well, you will receive proof in six weeks.
29 LGAtoIND : Ummm what demise in Indy are you talking about? Just last November NW satrted a small hub there.
30 ScottB : Ahhhh, since when is 10.56 lower than 9.98, pray tell? And I will shock myself for agreeing with Padcrasher on something at least once in that the fi
31 Padcrasher : Delta had lower costs than AA last Quarter. AA's 9.80 cent figure include a tax credit for fuel taxes. Less, this it would have been slightly over 10
32 Zone1 : It's too bad the DL pilots' contract didn't limit the amount of 40-50 seat RJs they could fly as severely as the 70 seat RJs. For once the pilots migh
33 ScottB : No, not at all, because you are still wrong. You can't just add the gain from fuel hedges to operating costs without subtracting the effect it would
34 Padcrasher : Don't twist it bro. I said CO would have higher magins without hedging. Yes I failed to spell out the math formula and off the top of my head I did so
35 Smcmac32msn : Aviationfreak - You answered your own question within the context of the question. Nobody wants to fly through a SUPER HUB, they are barely willing to
36 ScottB : If you are "taking into account taxes" it's even more lopsided in favor of Southwest, since LUV paid out $38 million in income taxes which would have
37 Padcrasher : Scott enjoy your 6 weeks. Because you'll be joining Comavia in the corner when reports come out.
38 Zone1 : I personally like flying through the ATL super hub. When you are flying to a super hub and are delayed, chances are that there will be another flight
39 FlyPNS1 : Actually, CO might beat DL in terms of CASM considering they signed big labor concessions that went into effect on April 1. It's hard to tell though.
40 Zone1 : Not by choice! Sunday I'm flying out of PNS to IAD. This will be my first all CRJ trip.
41 Commavia : LOL. I think DL has made a big mistake by shifting flight after flight to RJs, but as I said, this is their strategy and time will tell if it works.
42 FlyPNS1 : DL has 8 mainline flights a day from PNS to ATL plus a ton of mainline from ATL to IAD, so you should have been able to avoid the RJ if you wanted to
43 Misbeehavin : LOL! And true too! There's another saying in the South that "When you die, on the way to heaven, your soul will have to connect in ATL!"
44 Zone1 : Don't remind me, but I didn't book my ticket, unfortunately. I got booked on CO on the way back, so at least I get a lot of SkyMiles going through IA
45 Post contains images NonRevKing : ...and that should have ended this thread! Simplifares has made that a non issue. The new contract has made that a non issue. And just how is the fle
46 TinPusher007 : They aren't anymore...that distintion belongs to AA. But before the AA merger with TWA...DL had always carried more pax than all other carriers.
47 TWA902fly : One must not forget that ATL is the busiest airport because of Delta, unlike places like LAX, ORD, NYC, where it is much more natural to have a bigge
48 Commavia : Too many fleets and subfleets. DL currently operates a total of 11 aircraft types, with at least 14 subfleets (I am counting two 737-300 configuratio
49 UA772IAD : I think the problem lies in their homebase, ATL. There isn't a whole lot there, (Georgians: I do like Atlanta!)... business wise, and especially for t
50 Commavia : While Atlanta isn't my favorite American city, this is absolutely false. Atlanta is home to some of the world's largest corporations and has more bus
51 UA772IAD : C- Maybe so but consider this: 1) Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee. = the ar
52 ContnlEliteCMH : VERY false. Atlanta has a stunning array of huge business. My present client is one of the biggies on your list, and in terms of what I do, I would p
53 Indy : I have to ask this too. What do you mean? IND had its best year ever last year. Or are you talking about the end of the US mini-hub back in the 90's
54 Commavia : Very true. I just saw a thing on CNBC about how Atlanta -- Atlanta, of all places! -- has about the hottest real estate market in the country right n
55 Skibum9 : How can you really call DL a full service carrier when many of the LCCs, including Song, provide more services than mainline DL? I think the term tha
56 Wukka : Relatively small compared to what? Have you been to CVG lately? I would hardly call DL's movements "relatively small". They pretty much own the airpo
57 Ejmmsu : DL really missed the boat when it came to fleet planning, and they will have to live with the consequenses of that. Instead of purchasing 380 CRJ's, t
58 DAL767400ER : When has DL purchased 380 CRJs? Enlighten me please. Smart move, 3 fleet types instead of one. That's gonna cut down costs. And financials-wise: $5bi
59 TinPusher007 : The DCI system collectively operates some 380 RJ's...however DL did not purchase all of them. When DL bought EV and OH, they did purchase SOME, not b
60 TinPusher007 : Do some research on DL and ATL...your statement is obviously a little "off". 1. There are penty of businesses in ATL as listed above and moreover ATL
61 717-200 : That is very true especially at my field station RDU, where we have many a pax fly on FL on such routings as RDU-ATL-LGA/EWR despite US/CO/AA having
62 Luv2fly : Service wise in the air I have to agree.
63 OttoPylit : First of all, Delta is in the current process of simplifying its fleets by retiring the 762's, 732's, 733's, and 73NG's. Secondly, the configurations
64 TinPusher007 : Since when is DL retiring their 73NG's...they still have many on order.
65 Jetdeltamsy : This is rocket science so pay attention....throughout the system, Delta is charging less to carry each passenger than it costs. O&D traffic at ATL is
66 TinPusher007 : I think the main reason for the 763's and 764's into LGA have more to do with the heavey loads between ATL and LGA, which happens to be DL's number o
67 Post contains images FlyPNS1 : I believe he is differentiating between the two types of 733's operated by DL. DL has some 733's that have older analog cockpits and DL also has anot
68 DAL767400ER : The old 737s will actually be replaced my a mix of aircraft, namely EMB-170s, CRJs, and from next year on, 50 737-800s, provided nothing happens that
69 Post contains images NonRevKing : It does to him cause it pads out his BS theories. And don't forget South African! End of discussion! B
70 Post contains links and images UA772IAD : Geographically strategic is an airport/city where lots of international, regional and domestic connections can be made. Airlines are carriers, and su
71 Commavia : I'll give you SLC. It is pretty much stuck in the middle of nowhere and offers absolutely no meaningful international connections, but it is great fo
72 NonRevKing : Kinda a vague statement. International? Since Delta only serves NRT in Asia, we can rule that out. Europe? You can conx in JFK. South America? How is
73 UA772IAD : Commavia Questions about CVG, which I admit I don't know alot about. While it's good for RJ traffic (I agree), I question, is it better than the optio
74 Commavia : I first want to prefice this by saying that I in no way am a DL, or CVG expert, just sharing my opinions. If you are, hypothetically, flying from KS
75 Post contains images OttoPylit : Thank you FlyPNS, thats what I was referring to. I was referring to the planes that we got from Germania. They are 737-300's, but with glass cockpits
76 Skibum9 : Actually, CVG to CDG is served by a daily double, a DL 777 and an AF 340-300. The planes are always near capacity.
77 Deltadude8 : Well I live in Kansas City and fly DL always because of CVG's and ATL's convenience. CVG can get me to South Florida (i.e. PBI, FLL) without the Chic
78 777STL : And of course you're an expert on this and Delta isn't? Right, what would Delta know about their own fleet and logistics? Gotta love the armchair fle
79 Ejmmsu : Unfortunately, there are many destinations that could support 717 service that are currenlty served by high frequency RJ movements, and this fact wil
80 OttoPylit : Riiiiiiiiight? So, let me get this straight. Instead of Delta buying many CRJ's that are totally interchangable, you want them to buy an airplane who
81 TinPusher007 : I believe I said ATL had become ONE of the fastest growing.
82 FlyPNS1 : True, but what happens when a competing airline flies the same route with high frequency AND uses mainline sized aircraft? Then things quickly fall a
83 777STL : It's not that cut and dry though. Merely because a competing airline runs bigger jets doesn't mean they're going to fill them, or be profitable and s
84 FlyPNS1 : It's not as much about the size of the aircraft as it is the cost of operating the aircraft and customer perception. FL's 717's and 737's are able to
85 Darrell : Why can't DL make a profit? Thats a very good question considering I can't even get a ticket on the june 30th flight from ATL-PDX. Once again, that fl
86 Post contains images Misbeehavin : ATL-PDX is a route I have had a LOT of trouble with myself! I've had to connect through SLC a couple of times or take NW through MSP. When I did get
87 Luv2fly : I'll connect before I fly the CRJ's and I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.
88 NonRevKing : 30JUN ATL-PDX...I'm showing seats available on all 3 non stops. B
89 Misbeehavin : That's true, but it depends on where you're going. I've started liking the CRJs, especially if the flight duration is like a couple of hours or so. I
90 Post contains images NonRevKing : Well then you're ridiculous, and so are other people who feel that way. Fares like that don't exist any more in Y. Simplifares took care of that. B
91 TinPusher007 : This is an extremely valid point and is why DL failed miserably in DFW trying to take AA on at its home turf with RJ's. They never had a chance.
92 Misbeehavin : I just looked up ATL-PDX-ATL and got a quote of $1,198.60 - and that's a coach fare, without an upgrade, with a corporate discount. Even connecting t
93 Commavia : Agree completely. DL thought that pax -- especially business pax -- would be willing to fly a CRJ to OAK or DCA if the price was right. However, AA o
94 Misbeehavin : I agree. Like I said in the last post, on flights upto 2 hours or so, I don't mind the CRJs at all. But on longer flights, there's no way I'm going o
95 OttoPylit : I'll tell you exactly what will happen because its been tried and I was there. Delta started flying CRJ's back in 99 or 2000 to NYC with 2 ASA RJ's.
96 TinPusher007 : I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that comparing DL's experience in a particular market with that of B6. LCC's, namely WN and now B
97 Luv2fly : Make that two of us. How is that Otto
98 FlyPNS1 : Your logic doesn't quite work. The reason traffic levels didn't rise is because DL kept fares extremely high. Walk-up fares on JAX-LGA were often nea
99 NonRevKing : Um, really? Cause leaving tomorrow returning the 8th, I'm showing $900 on the non stops. Almost sold out too. I don't know what dates you looked, but
100 Commavia : Very true. Low fares stimulate demand. Just as when WN entered RDU. Fares drop, traffic shoots up.
101 Efohdee : You forgot CNN, the Atlanta Braves, and the Weather Channel. I just returned from ATL, and I would say nearly half the traffic there is Delta connect
102 SESGDL : No it's not. DL Connection traffic makes up roughly a third of DL's traffic at ATL. The Atlanta hub works because ATL has 30 million O&D passengers a
103 Post contains images Misbeehavin : Incredible as that is, it's true. I had another painful reminder of that fact when I walked into the South terminal just under 2 weeks ago. The inter
104 Post contains images NonRevKing : Hahah not even close. It's a fraction. If there was a demand for GNV-DHN non stop, someone would fly it.   Delta operates PNS-TPA non stop, chief.
105 Darrell : As I stated in my earlier post, I was unable to get a ticket on the ATL-PDX flight for June 30th. This is because when I clicked on the seat selection
106 TinPusher007 : I was ready to jump all over him for that statement too...BUT like you guys, I was thinking in terms of pax numbers in which case DL Conx is no where
107 OttoPylit : And majors have a way of stimulating traffic in markets that LCC's won't touch. LaCrosse WI, Dothan AL, Texarkana AR, Roanoke VA, Medford OR, Monterr
108 TinPusher007 : I would also...thats really not a bad fare at all.
109 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Might want to check that again . If 357 flights out of a total of 1,042 are DCI, it is in fact only a third. You and me both, but for todays travelli
110 FlyPNS1 : Since when is ISP a good substitute for LGA? ISP pricing has virtually no affect on LGA and if you think it does, you truly know nothing about this i
111 Jumpseat70 : Okay everyone....Fares work the same on ALL airlines. It's like an inverted funnel. The closer you get to the top of the funnel,i.e. fuller flights, t
112 Aviationfreak : Exactly why I don't understand DL is doing so bad. Thanx for the answers. Sander
113 TinPusher007 : Ok just to clairfy...we might be talking apples and oranges here. DCI's 357 flights per day are 1/3 of the TOTAL 1,042 daily flights. But they are ap
114 TinPusher007 : See my original post for the answer to that question:
115 Efohdee : Thats what I meant. Flight traffic is number of aircraft. Number of flights does not mean groups of people flying through the air. When an aircraft f
116 OttoPylit : Whoa, watch what you say there, I do believe this boy knows a little more about the industry than you think. I never said that ISP was a good substit
117 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : Your poor attempt at refuting Commavia's argument is not only laughable, but quite pathetic. As an Atlanta native, I can only suggest to you that bef
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