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Leahy Says A350's Better Than 787 Or 777  
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13656 times:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/226955_leahy03.html

Airbus says A350 ready to take on 787
Second version will challenge 777, P-I told

By JAMES WALLACE

...

Leahy said at least four airlines will announce orders for more than 100 A350s at the air show, which begins June 13. The bulk of those are expected to come from Emirates, for as many as 50 planes, although Leahy refused to identify any customers.

...

One factor that works in favor of the fuel-efficient 787 and A350 is the "stubbornly high price of fuel," Chew said. "That makes both propositions more attractive right now. But a lot will depend, at the end of the day, on how much it will cost to own and operate. We are waiting to hear what Airbus presents. If they price the A350 attractively enough, we would take a look."

...

Although the fuselage cross-section of the A350 remains the same as that of the A330, the inside of the fuselage has been revised to provide more room for passengers as well as more seats, Leahy said. By moving the aft pressure bulkhead and relocating the crew rest under the cockpit, the A350-800 will have about 15-18 more seats than the A330-200, Leahy said, and about 30 more seats than the 787-8. The bigger A350-900 is also gaining seats over the A330-300 with the addition of a couple fuselage frames.

...

"Boeing argues they have a little more headroom on their plane, so we changed the shape of the sidewall to have similar width," Leahy said of the recent A350 changes.

The A350-800, with more seats than the 787-8, will be able to fly about 300 miles farther than the Boeing plane with about 4 percent lower fuel burn per seat and lower maintenance cost per seat, Leahy said. The cash operating costs to the airline per seat will be less than for the 787-8, as will the plane's empty weight per seat, he said.

And not only does the A350-900 beat the 787-9 on any seat-cost comparison, but it is also beats the 777-200, Leahy said.

"We have about same number of seats, and I can fly about same range, within a couple hundred miles, but burn 30 percent less fuel and I'm doing it with a much quieter airplane," Leahy said of the A350-900 versus the 777-200.

...

Leahy said if Airbus had been able to offer the A350 in its present form, those campaigns, and others won by the 787, might have turned out different.

"We have been listening to the airlines and going through the design loops," Leahy said.

"Our customers said we should have done this a year ago. But that's water over the dam."

---

Bring it on, counters Boeing's Carson.

[Edited 2005-06-03 12:33:58]


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13560 times:

Bring it on indeed   

Glad to see we have two aircraft competing on the same level from both manufacturers now 

Regardless of the fact that Leahy made it sound like the A350 and B787 are almost identical, I am sure that each will have pros and cons over the other. Airlines will make purchases from either side and it will be interesting to see who picks which.

[Edited 2005-06-03 13:13:43]


Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13521 times:

Things will depend on wether an airline can fill the A350, if it can it's the best choice. If not the B787 is.

Sjoerd



Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13385 times:

Wow a lot of talk for an airplane that many said was dead in the water, they can promise but can they deliver? Another problem in my opinion is the fact they haven't really shown us anything, when do they plan on this plane entering service??
Just my thoughts,
Brandon  Smile



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13311 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 3):
do they plan on this plane entering service??

Initially Airbus stated 2010, and recently they said, probably to be more realistic, 2011-2012.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13306 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The headline should read: "What Do You Expect Leahy to Say"

Seriously though, what would want him say. However, what he is saying is like a little kid,...my bike is better than your bike. Even though his bike has been redesigned four times and orders are as elusive as a disease free prostitute.

He may surprise us, but I do not believe him.

To answer your question Brandon, they say that it will be two years behind the 787 entering service. Which is fine, it is a design starting from scratch now--finally.

[Edited 2005-06-03 14:05:52]


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Leahy (Airbus)
"We have about same number of seats, and I can fly about same range, within a couple hundred miles, but burn 30 percent less fuel and I'm doing it with a much quieter airplane," Leahy said of the A350-900 versus the 777-200.

Carson (Boeing)
"We would be pretty happy with that as a 777 competitor, the 777 is still preferred by passengers. It is roomy inside and has high ceilings."

 boggled 


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13201 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Any pics of what the A350 may look like? Not seen any to date.


I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13156 times:

Question: the A359 sounds more and more like a 777 competitor, no problem there, but how will the A350 impact A346 sales???

More and more, it sounds like the A350 series will bring the A333/A343/A346 programs to an end......by focusing so much on the 777ER market, is Airbus forgetin that they already offer a 777ER competitor, better known as the A346?


User currently offlineBoogyJay From France, joined May 2005, 490 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13071 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
Question: the A359 sounds more and more like a 777 competitor, no problem there, but how will the A350 impact A346 sales???

The A350 will compete the B777-200ER whereas the A346 competes the B777-300ER.

The A359 could indeed affect some of the A346 sales, but I'd think in a positive manner (with a package offer like the B773 can be sold with the B772). The A346 has still its own market (in Airbus' product line I mean  Wink ). And don't forget the A346 keeps being under improvement with the HGW version for example.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3675 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12982 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 5):
my bike is better than your bike. Even though his bike has been redesigned four times

Actually, that could be a good explanation for the better plane.

But anyway, all that is marketing I'm always surprised to see how people take those things seriously. I know marketing people, because I work beside them, and they are really disconnected from reality.
It was the same, if not worse, with Boeing and their brand new looking revolutionary aircraft, the 7E7 "dreamliner" (LOL) which finally looks exactly like another Boeing plane.


User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12937 times:

Good luck to both airframe producers. We certainly will all benefit from the competition. However, when it comes to CEO's in this industry, Leahy is a sensationalist. I think of far greater concern for Airbus, is the delay of the A380. Imagine next if performance goals cannot be met...?


S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12873 times:

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 11):
I think of far greater concern for Airbus, is the delay of the A380. Imagine next if performance goals cannot be met...?

Surely they are concerned although you have to acknowledge that such delays happen with all major aircraft developments (should I mention 777?).
Regarding performance they already said that A380 is exceeding expectations so no worries.


User currently offlineKaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 738 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12716 times:

Everything about the "new" A350 sounds really nice but what I don't get is, why has airbus failed to come up with an A300/310, B767 replacement, to compete with the 787-3? To start with, Airbus became what it is today by first realizing that there is a market for a high capacity short/medium range twin, and came up with the A300 30 years ago. Now, all Airbus is doing is trying to beat the 787-8's range and economics by stuffing in more seats and increasing the MTOW, and what we have is a plane that will most probably be great when flying 300 people over 8000 mile sectors but the operating costs for routes like LHR-AMS and FRA-MUC will be nothing like those advertised by Mr Leahy.


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12640 times:

Duh, of course he is going to say his airplane is "better". Boeing says the 787 is "better". The marketplace will decide who's is better.

787: 366 firm orders to date
A-350: 90 including EK, Air Europa and HP/US.

And yes, if they would have changed the aircraft a year ago and listened to the potential customers then (instead of assuming what they wanted), we may have had a different outcome. This is no one's fault but Airbus. It is a classic, textbook business error.

Everyone (except keesje of course) said it was initally a crappy offering-a knee jerk reaction and everyone saw it; except Airbus.

Now that they have corrected it, this could turn out to be a very interesting battle.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12639 times:

Leahy - he needs some Pepto for that diarrhea of the mouth problem he has.  irked 

User currently offlineBoogyJay From France, joined May 2005, 490 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12589 times:

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 13):
but what I don't get is, why has airbus failed to come up with an A300/310, B767 replacement, to compete with the 787-3?

Yes, I keep wondering the same thing. But I don't worry: if we here, or people at Boeing think about this market, I'm sure some people at Airbus do it too. They have people analysing the market, and if they think they can make money with a A300/310 replacement, then they will come up with something.

We don't really know what the numbers for the A350 are, but if they can make it as (more) competitive as (than) the B787, Airbus may answer this high density-short/medium haul market with a slightly changed wing for example. I'd enjoy a A305 project announcement: flying in a widebody for short/medium haul is so nice  Smile.

In a 2-class configuration, a 250-300 seater A350 would be too heavy for short/medium haul, but as I stated above, do we know the actual figures?
So, a A305 could be a lightened A350 = a double-lightened A330.

Poor A330, they put you on a hard diet  melting   Big grin


User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12542 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 5):
The headline should read: "What Do You Expect Leahy to Say"



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
Duh, of course he is going to say his airplane is "better". Boeing says the 787 is "better". The marketplace will decide who's is better.

NSS... Duh! I'm just highlighting what Leahy has to say on recent characteristics of the A350 as described by him, which happens to look "better" than what Boeing is offering. And that's what we're here to argue about...



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12541 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
course he is going to say his airplane is "better".

I think the title is a bit misleading.

The article does not mention Leahy saying quote un-qoute that the A350 is "better", rather he said:

"I'm now getting an airplane out there that is more than competitive with the 787, and you will see orders very soon,"

he just states that the aircraft "is more than competitive with the B787"

To me that means its just as good.

Anyways back to the topic, what is the 4th airline he's talking about?

They have EK, HP/US, and Air Europa.

Is it LOT or QR ???

I still dont believe that the 6 UFO orders for the B787 is for LOT, rather I think those where ET's.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12512 times:

Forget about the damn title, and just read the article for goodness sakes.

[Edited 2005-06-03 16:27:48]


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12511 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 7):
Any pics of what the A350 may look like? Not seen any to date.

Take a picture of an A330, write "2 engines 2 make money" on its side with big black letters, and you pretty much have it.  Smile

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 13):

Alex, Kalos hr8es sto a.net!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12505 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 18):
he just states that the aircraft "is more than competitive with the B787"
To me that means its just as good.

Haha! The key word is "more".

If it was just as good, he would have said, "is competitive with the B787."



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12496 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 18):
I still dont believe that the 6 UFO orders for the B787 is for LOT, rather I think those where ET's.

Indeed most of us believed that these 6 were for LOT (specially after Mr. Wallace article). Although yesterday several Polish sources quoted LOT Chairman saying that they are "very seriously considering A350" and will make announcement in coming weeks (Le Bourget?).


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5666 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12493 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 18):
I still dont believe that the 6 UFO orders for the B787 is for LOT, rather I think those where ET's.

They're not LO nor are they ET. ET signed a firm contract for 10 787s but Boeing has not put it up on their orders page as they are waiting for final approval from the US EXIM bank. 787 order to be finalize this month - VN, AC (as stated by Milton), probably 2-3 of the Chinese carriers. Still waiting on CO.

The other orders for the A350 will porbably come from lessors.

I would expect that Boeing will have some significant 787 orders at Paris including orders from Lessors (ILFC and GECAS) as well as 2-3 orders from airlines. AirNZ has stated that they're looking to exercise options on the 787 (probably go for the -9).



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinePhxinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12474 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
Everyone (except keesje of course) said it was initally a crappy offering-a knee jerk reaction and everyone saw it; except Airbus.

You forgot Dutchjet and a couple of die-hard Germans. LOL



Keepin' it real.
25 Sebolino : Actually, you are implying that the marketplace has already decided, which is a nonsense.
26 Post contains images Agill : Discussions about semantics are always interesting
27 Stirling : Would the A350 program invalidate the previous Airbus position that 4 is better than 2 for long-range operations? If the A350 is projected to be only
28 Leskova : Aside from the numbers being guesses based on rumors... the actual numbers for firm orders for both are much lower, with the A350 currently still at
29 KL808 : If SQ where to order the B787 today as an example, when would they possibly get their first aircraft? If it is later than the EIS date of the A350, an
30 B737200300 : SO why did it take forever for Airbus to deliver the A318?
31 SNATH : I believe this had to do with the engines not being not ready on time... Tony
32 Mham001 : The Chinese CAAC have instructed Shenzhen Airlines to purchase the A350..expect a LOI of 10 at the airshow.
33 MarcoT : Again, those you provided are a mixture of announced commitments and credible rumours, but firm orders they are not. Why insisting to use a term with
34 Atmx2000 : Does anyone have payload weight data for the A358 and A359?
35 Post contains images Keesje : Most people here thought Airbus' only chance to survive was an all new design, a composite fuselage & introducing bleedless all over, instead of just
36 MarcoT : Because not always you're able to do all what you want to do. The A330 have already an heavier structure than the A300, so it was not an option to sh
37 EGTESkyGod : Ah, I see your point
38 Boeing7E7 : Until Airbus (Leahy - not so much Airbus) figures out that reducing seat costs through incremental capacity increases isn't what airlines are looking
39 RayChuang : I think Airbus is going to find out pretty quickly that the more "new" technology they put into the A350, the more expensive the plane will get. Putti
40 Trex8 : you gotta be kidding, like anyone would even really notice! certianly no one who lives in Denver!
41 Brons2 : Nobody with 2 brain cells in their head can seriously think the A358 competes with the 788-8 anymore. It's 30 seats bigger, according to the article.
42 Redflyer : The 777 encountered delays? I wasn't aware of that. I recall Boeing saying EIS would be June (I forget the exact date) 1995 on the day the plane made
43 RayChuang : You'll be real surprised how much more comfortable people are at 6,000 feet altitude versus 9,000 feet altitude cabin air pressure equivalent. You fo
44 YULMRS : I think you're right for the 787-8, 777-200 and 777-300 ? But on what is based you're explanation on the 787-9 ? 2 new planes which aren't even compl
45 MarcoT : This for sure must be the reason for which the still-waiting-for-launch 747Adv will seat more than the 744 and not less
46 Post contains images Theredbaron : And the battle continues !!! (where is UDO when we need him ?) As of now none of those planes haveflown, all is Media Hype and PR cranked to the top.
47 DAYflyer : These are orders which are firm according to Boeing. You answered your own question. They have corrected the number of seats, the increased use of co
48 B2707SST : Absolutely. If the A359 is a 772 competitor, then it is even more strongly an A343/A345 competitor, especially since the latter is such a heavy airpl
49 Kaneporta1 : Me not flying my own private A380 is not being able to do what I want. For the biggest airplane manufacturer in the world not to able to develop a ne
50 Glom : If the A359 can garnered as many orders as Leahy claims, then it has already outsold the A345. But actually, I don't think the A359 has nearly the ra
51 Ckfred : The A380 delivery schedule has been pushed back 6 months, and the break-even in sales as gone up from 250 to 300 planes. I don't think Leahy has a cre
52 Glom : How d'you figure? Clearly Airbus underestimated the power of the 787, probably because they were hoping they wouldn't have to develop another new air
53 Zvezda : It seems likely that the A350-900 will kill the B777-200ER just as soundly as the B787-9 is killing the A330-300 and 340-300. The only advantage the
54 NYC777 : Probably through the use of composites and other light weight materials. That's how Boeing is doing it with the 787.
55 Trex8 : almost a ton more per engine than present ones and it probably isn't supposed to, the A345 and 772LR are niche products of course if the Euro and US$
56 Revelation : Interesting observation, when contrasted with how Leahy admits Airbus screwed up with an initial weak offering on the A350 project that lead to the A
57 DAYflyer : Wrong. The 744 Adv will have th new engines and some additional changes, not just adding more seats.
58 Glom : So it is not irresponsible to use composites in this way.
59 NYC777 : Noit necessarily true, if Airbus keeps missing delivery targets tehy will have to pay penalties. It'll be even more if they miss performance targets
60 777STL : Ehh assuming Airbus has sold the 350 to Air Europa, US, and the Emirates, I'm not impressed. I wonder how well the 350 will do when they can no longer
61 MarcoT : Not being able to do what one want does not necessarily implies 'not being technically able.' Here we are speaking about a finite budget that most be
62 MarcoT : I don't think that you'll recognize what credibility is even if it hits you on the head... This is called adapting your offers to the market and not
63 NYC777 : Wrong, they were caught flat footed in this market. They had to scramble for a response and then the response was so weak that they lost a lot of ord
64 Katekebo : Boeing has an extremely successfull model to re-apply to keep the 777 competitive. The 737NG has proven that an old plane can be modernized to effecti
65 MarcoT : But still part of the gainings came from increasing the seats... just as for the A350... Marco
66 NYC777 : They're adding seat to take advantage of a wide gap that Airbus has left open of airplanes that seat between 400 and 550.
67 NorCal : Honestly, what did you expect Lehay to say? The fact is that both are going to be great a/c. With all the "firm" orders between them, they have sold m
68 Post contains links Jacobin777 : well..one thing for sure, there are already pics (and I have a video) of part of the fuselage for the 787 being built (I'm sure some of you have alrea
69 Post contains images Davejondi : Wow...This Sure sounds like a convenient way for Mr. Leahy to shift the focus away from the delays in 380 deliveries. Boeing is at a clear advantage w
70 MarcoT : You accuse them of everything and its contrary. How can they have simultaneously 'pretended that the A330 could hold its own' while at the same time
71 Revelation : Airbus was even more blind than that: initially, Airbus did not see a need to upgrade the A330 at all, thus the infamous "chinese copy" comment. We a
72 HZ747300 : That is correct. The PW engines for the A318 were delayed in certification.
73 Atmx2000 : It's called showing a brave face in public when they know the truth to be otherwise.
74 Atmx2000 : It's called making a virtue out of necessity...
75 MarcoT : The 737NG argument is not particularly appropriate because both the A320 an the 737 classics have the same conventional aluminum fuselage. Change the
76 Post contains images Ikramerica : The 737NG also had new electronics, avionics, modern 757 style interior, and climate controls, and a modified fuselage. The 736 is the same size as a
77 MarcoT : Yes for sure, but all this subthread have started from this ...
78 Jet-lagged : Yes. And I think somewhere is it written that some windows will be larger, not all. So they must be plannig to change parts of the fuselage, and leav
79 Post contains images Milan320 : Danny, you always beat me to it I heard the same thing, although I can't find the source of this. Friend of mine said he saw it on onet.pl - but can'
80 Atmx2000 : That doesn't rule out Boeing stretching an aircraft either. Otherwise we would have never seen the 773. But that one must acknowledge the fundamental
81 Zvezda : Stretching the B787-9 is certainly one response to the A350-900. However, there are no engines that could be bolted onto the B777-200ER to make it co
82 Glom : It would be excellent if Boeing were to stretch to the 787 into a 7810 and then build a 10 abreast twin using similar technology to replace the 773 an
83 Avek00 : Airbus CAN make money doing this - Boeing decided to go after 300/310/767 replacement/"enhancement" and has thus far yielded hundreds of orders. Even
84 MrComet : This is interesting to hear Leahy's comments. Seems like the bottom line is that Airbus is going to avoid a direct competition with the 787 for whatev
85 Post contains images MQrampBOS : Well, I'd certainly hope so. Otherwise Airbus would be wasting their money on him, wouldn't they
86 Ikramerica : ...we Stop Airtrev from polluting every thread with his company sales pitch. I am already sick of this guy. 8 posts total in his history, all about t
87 Post contains images RIX : Indeed, another stretch of 787 may easily kill "seat-mile cost advantage" of 350. 350 is what 747Adv (if ever launched) is going to be - cheap niche
88 Mdsh00 : Yeah if he wasn't busy calling the 787 (then 7E7) a Chinese copy of the A330.
89 Zoom1018 : Agree. I still remember Airbus said that their A330s could compete with Boein g 7E7 all right!!! Perhaps, at that time, they saw lots of orders for A
90 Avek00 : But what niche is it trying to protect? It's too big to protect the A300/310 niche, too small for A345/346, and the 330/340 Classic niche has already
91 Zvezda : The A350 is not cheap. It's development cost looks to be up to ten times higher than that of the B747Adv.
92 Post contains images RIX : may be, none. I forgot that now it is claimed to be not a "cheap 330-based alternative to 787" but a new design. But I still don't see what will prev
93 Zvezda : Boeing increased the wingspan and wing surface area late last year in order to provide enough lift for a possible future B787-10 with B777-200ER capa
94 RayChuang : I don't think there will be much more demand for the 777-200ER in the future unless it's from airlines already operating the 777-200 series. Boeing wi
95 Burnsie28 : One other thing is that Airbus told NW that it would not have the same type rating as the A330 and A320 series family. Thus, since the A350 had no ad
96 N60659 : Agreed. However, that was several months ago. After the A350 rejection by both AC and NW, it looks like they have gone back to drawing board. Has the
97 2H4 : Surely the common type rating wasn't the only advantage offered by the proposed A350. 2H4
98 Glom : The A330 and the A320 don't have the same type rating. I believe the story at the time was that Airbus couldn't promise that the type rating would be
99 Glom : I don't see how redesigning the aircraft makes it more likely that it will have the same type rating.
100 Atmx2000 : Did they actually increase area by much? It seemed to me that they reduced the front edge to back edge wing dimensions, though I haven't seen a good
101 Zvezda : I was told the wing area was increased as well as span in order to accomodate a possible future B787-10. I don't know by how much, but I expect it wa
102 N60659 : I wasn't implying that the redesign could result in the common type rating. It is the underlying philosophy of Airbus to cure some of the shortcoming
103 L-188 : I really love to listen to Leahy play off this latest revision of the 1970's A300 as the latest and greatest thing.....it really is quite funny. Fact
104 RJ111 : Re: All this talk of stretching the 787 to a 10 oblitirating the A350. Don't forget that stretched planes have advantages but also disadvantages over
105 Zvezda : Good point. Certainly a B787-10 is likely to have a greater OEW than the B787-9, however, with a composite fuselage, it is not likely to be a great d
106 Glom : Same for Boeing and the 737NG.
107 YULMRS : Boeing is pretentious for the 787 and look at the 717 ... already dead.
108 Zvezda : Airbus and Boeing are both pretentious -- Airbus especially. What's new?
109 Post contains images RJ111 : Why Airbus especially? 'cause they're French .
110 Post contains images Zvezda : I don't know why Airbus are especially pretentious. You'd have to ask them. BTW, during my time at DASA in Finkenwerder, I didn't notice that the Fre
111 RJ111 : That's rediculous, enough of these sly digs.
112 Sebolino : The level of this debate is too high for me.
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