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Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?  
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11545 times:

Diversions into Canada are the norm these days, with a drunkard disrupting a flight or someone not being welcome into the US and even paranoia on the part of US authorities. Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlgoz From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11526 times:

Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate???
It is not as important as the USA, so it doesn't matter if undesirables that were headed to the US end up in Canada.
Canada must do as the US tells it. They have to be protected at all costs, even at the expense of "foreigners" (ie Canadians).


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11513 times:

The last time I looked, Canadian soil is crossed over first from the westbound European flights over North America...


336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11497 times:

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

Hey... its not bad thing for Canada... these otherwise idle airports are being utilized... but anyhew, back in the day Halifax and Newfoundland designed those airports for emergencies...

and there are landing fee's.... so your airports do make money. it's not so bad... get over it dude...



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6470 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11490 times:

Which flights are "only a few miles away" from the US when they are diverted to Canada.

User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11467 times:

I'm wondering if those were F-18s escorting the VS aircraft?

[Edited 2005-06-03 20:19:28]


336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11444 times:

They land in Canada because they are flying over Canada. Even on 9/11 I don't think any flights that were in the US were pushed back out to Canada. Most flights from Asia or Europe to the US fly through Canadian airspace. We can see this as a benefit because it puts us in a bargaining position or we can see it as a threat. Personally I don't think too many Canadians are worried about these flights landing in Canada.

User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11444 times:

We all heard you the first time!

User currently offlineYEGspotter From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11395 times:

The majority of all flights from Europe to mainland USA travel over Canada at some point - why would they not land in Canada?? If safety is an issue, it makes perfect sense to get the aircraft on the ground as fast as possible, and that generally means Canada. I am completely confident that the law enforcement officials in this country can deal with any of the "scum" that might end up in this country.....

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11381 times:

The answer is one word........geography. On most Europe to US flights, Canada is the first place to get an aircraft on the ground after crossing the Atlantic, thus, the diversions. Many here do not remember the days when Gander and Goose Bay were regular fuel/technical stops on transatlantic routes.

Do note, however, Bangor, Maine, has seen its share of diversions for security and other reasons, it being the first airport available on US territory after crossing the Atlantic.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21525 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11271 times:

this whole topic is dumb. i'm tired of people making such comments because they just want to hate things or get angry over things due to other concerns or biases

most diversions I've seen recently are to Bangor. last time I checked, that's in the US. this one was to Canada because the Canadian airforce intercepted it. it's even explained in most reports.

it is also SOP to divert a plane away from it's intended "target" in such a case, since now we know that there is potential to use them as missles. in the past, the rules may have been different.

on 9/11, Canada took all flights because US airports went into lock down and shut down. Canada, as nice as they were, didn't want to see all those planes fall out of the sky when they ran out of fuel. we thank them for that.

our airports would do the same. if there was an issue with a flight to canada from mexico or south america over the USA, it would land in the US. same for any Canadian national emergencies.

grow up, guy.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSLC1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11272 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 11):
and didn't come from Canada.

And even if they had, we still would have let them in too, don't forget!!!


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11600 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate?

Please, is that really necessary? Are you kidding, or serious?

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
The last time I looked, Canadian soil is crossed over first from the westbound European flights over North America.

Exactly. I feel pretty confident that if Mexico was our northern neighbor, then that country would get medical/security/disruption diversions. I think it has a lot more to do with geography than politics or the US wanting to "dump" its unruly passengers or security threats on Canada. And, by the way, Iceland has received its fair share of US airline diversions over the years, so obviously it's not only Canada the US is "picking on."

Quoting ETStar (Reply 15):
why should canada have to deal with any consequences that may arise because of things like 'US no fly lists', which contain the names of people who are not allowed to enter the states.

If Canada decided to close its airspace, or if an AC flight from GRU to YYZ had an unruly passenger on it, do you think the flight would divert to MIA, or CLT, or JFK, or anywhere US? I think so, and I doubt too many Americans would view it as Canada dumping its crap on the US, but rather as an airplane at 30,000 ft wanting to get a safety risk off the plane and on the ground ASAP.


User currently offlineHardkor From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10847 times:

This shouldn't be that much of an issue. The flight was over Canadian airspace, and was intercepted by two CF18 fighters. A level of cooperation has to be expected between these two countries, especially for geographic and practicality purposes in relation to possible security threats

User currently offlineAlgoz From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10839 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate?

Please, is that really necessary? Are you kidding, or serious?

Commavia - do you not understand irony? Or is it a British speciality?


User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10775 times:

Ah! give it a rest. The US are our next door neighbours, if we can't help them out once in a while, what kind of a neighbour would we be. They are there for us too, we have our differences but that's okay. BTW, it's not just Canada that ends up dealing with air rage etc. Shannon airport in Ireland gets it's fair share of those too for the same reason Canada does. Canada is the landfall going west, Ireland is often the landfall going east. I seem to remember a British airliner landing in Shannon to disembark 2 unruly Canadians who seemingly could not handle British beer!

GU



I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineBhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10721 times:

Maybe we should pull the DEWS line back to the border...  Wink


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5415 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10667 times:

First of all.....Since I reside in the US, travel to Canada frequently, and am a citizen of neither, I can tell you that Canada has far stricter immigration laws/requirements than the US. I've been working between the 2 countries for 12 years! ..BUT this is clearly off topic for this thread!!!

...as for landing in Canada...remember that often the US authorities will not allow an airliner to enter US airspace, therefore there are few options. I guess we should be thankful that Canada doesn't refuse them either!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10614 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 5):
I'm wondering if those were F-18s escorting the VS aircraft?

CF-18s.

N


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10567 times:

Because Canada and the US have treaties and agreements under NORAD that allow it. Canadian generals are in the chain at NORAD for just such reasons.
We have ~40 Comanning Canadians on AWACS, just for the NORAD (who, as a sidenote, even went to War with us in Iraq) mission. THe Canadians are at every sector in the US and at Cheyenne MT, and the US has forces at CANR.

And yes as noted above they were Canadian CF-18s. On another sidenote, kudos to Alberta for another great Maple FLag, I had a good time.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'd like to super size that with a diet coke


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10506 times:

Quoting SLC1 (Reply 11):
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 11):
and didn't come from Canada.

And even if they had, we still would have let them in too, don't forget!!!

I didn't say that? Did you click the wrong "Quote Selected Text" button?


User currently offlineUAMAYBACH1239 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10406 times:

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
. Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

I Canada wanted to they could request the airline to fly over. Also the US Government pays Canada for any cost incurred relative to the flt. in question.
AS carriers only.
 Cool



a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10205 times:

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):



Quoting Algoz (Reply 14):
Commavia - do you not understand irony? Or is it a British speciality?

apparently just cynicism


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7174 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

Well Halifax and St. Johns do come before the US so with those drunk passengers and all well they go to the closet airport. Which most of the time would be a Canadian Airport.
With passengers on the US no fly list. Well the pilots dont have much of a choice since ATC wont let them in US Airspace unless it is an emergency.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineTIMEAIR From Canada, joined May 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10067 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 6):
Even on 9/11 I don't think any flights that were in the US were pushed back out to Canada.

HMMM..YES AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WERE..2 WERE ENROUTE TO LAX JUST OVER BLI AND TOLD TO DIVERT TO YVR..I BELIEVE THEY WERE BOTH UA FLIGHTS ONE FROM NRT AND ONE FROM HKG

Quoting Bhill (Reply 16):
we should pull the DEWS line back

The DEW (Distant Early Warning) line has been decommissioned for years!!!! only a few stations remain manned..one being Alert, NU...



You can't get there from here.
25 EMBQA : Diversions into Canada are the norm these days Other then this one name the last.............???? The last 5 that I can think of all went into BGR.
26 Post contains images Wukka : So what you're saying is F-18s with a block warmer and California emissions?
27 ComeAndGo : It's the tough attitude of the US. If Canada wanted to do something about it, it should simply pick an originating US flight to Europe and demand it
28 GothamSpotter : Reasons: 1. There are not many population centers in maritime provinces of northeastern Canada, hence little chance of ground casualties should things
29 Chgoflyer : didn't you hear? When the agreement was made that we would take your artic air Ottawa said fine bring on the crazy flights! To come up with such an i
30 Yyz717 : Flight diversions are good for the economy. Landing fees, use of hotels, fuel purchases, meal purchases. Bring on more diversions into Canada, I say.
31 Cancidas : hen diverting a flight the pilot looks for the closest airport that is best suited to handle his specific type of emergency and aircraft. in the case
32 ACDC8 : This is probably gonna be a real stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. If a flight has a serious emergency, let's say a situation like SR111, and the
33 EMBQA : This is probably gonna be a real stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. stupid question..? No...!! The stupid part is the answer is most likely YES the
34 Lnglive1011yyz : With you being from Canada, you should know that our population doesn't even come close tot he united states. The chances of a highjacked (or suspect
35 Jetdeltamsy : Canada has a population density in the northeast about 1/10,000th that of the U.S. It makes sense to keep the flying missles as far from the U.S. as
36 Gilesdavies : Bangor is always a firm favourite with the UK Charter airlines to off load the British "Chavs" that have drunk too much on their holiday flight to Flo
37 ComeAndGo : Yes, but … If these airlines were going to do so often, they'd run out of business soon than later. To land in Bangor and then take-off again costs
38 DarthRandall : It is more of a symbotic relationship than that. Don't forget that, without Canada, we would not have the DEW line that was so important during the C
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