KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2882 times:
Will TZ and WN merge? They could call themselves TWNZ (twins?), LOL.
This gets WN into the bigger US Military Contracts, and a little fleet diversification. It also gets them into DFW and around the Wright Admendment, while at the same time maintianing their hebs at DAL and MDW.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2880 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter): It also gets them into DFW and around the Wright Admendment, while at the same time maintianing their hebs at DAL and MDW.
They are currently trying to avoid that like the plauge, doing so would literally give ammunition to DFW to use against themselves. WN has made a point not to expand the WN/TZ codeshare to DFW because they do not want to "confuse" the issue one bit.
I think they will maintain their current status for the time being. If ATA were to completly collapse, WN would likely pick-up certain portions of their domestic opperations only. It doesn't suit them to add x-number of 757 at this time.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2851 times:
But, without WN's help, TZ will not be able to get the B-763s or B-742s they want. Unless they have financial help somewhere else.
Flypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2824 times:
No I don't see this coming..It really just doesn't make sense. Southwest is getting enough done with the codeshare, and doesn't need to buy the money troubled airline..
Airlinerfreak From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2796 times:
My bets are that it will never happen. Though US and America West got away with it I do not think that TZ and WN would. Also WN would be making a big mistake by acquiring TZ!!
Aeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2736 times:
WN has acquired, and in one case, absorbed the aircraft and operations of two airlines, namely Muse Air and Morris Air. The great thing about WN is that they'll do what makes sense to make money at any juncture in time, the TZ code share is something no one could have imagined 3 years ago.
N77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2713 times:
Morris Air was basically a shell; leased everything, complementary route system, and a very small work force that was easily integrated into WN.
TZ, on the other hand, is really two airlines in one, with a rather militant union and many years in existence. On paper, it would not be a good match.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
It wasn't just aircraft. Morris also was originally set up closely following the Southwest model. There were boarding cards instead of seat assignments, etc. Lots of commonality that made that merger a little easier.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2693 times:
Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 10): I know that Morris especially was a large acquisition, but they were an all 733 fleet. TZ has no fleet commonality.
They opperate 737-800, which have full cockpit commonality with the 737NG opperated by WN. TZ will also begin opperating "classic" 737 this fall. The only lack of commonality is their 757 fleet...
Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 7): Also WN would be making a big mistake by acquiring TZ!!
For what reason?
Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 4): WN Will NEVER acquire another airline completely...mark my words on this
N77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14): Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 10):
I know that Morris especially was a large acquisition, but they were an all 733 fleet. TZ has no fleet commonality.
They opperate 737-800, which have full cockpit commonality with the 737NG opperated by WN. TZ will also begin opperating "classic" 737 this fall. The only lack of commonality is their 757 fleet...
Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 7):
Also WN would be making a big mistake by acquiring TZ!!
For what reason?
Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 4):
WN Will NEVER acquire another airline completely...mark my words on this
And they will never protest the Wright Ammendment
Buying an airline merely to acquire common aircraft is a poor business reason. There has to be inherent value, as what Morris offered to WN when they bought them.
TZ, as I pointed out earlier, offers too many dissimilarities to WN for a merger. Perhaps the closest they would come would be as a separate division, as Muse Air was. The issue of merging certificates, routes, seniority lists, fleet types; a real headache.
Exactly! I think WN will have to change in the future to keep competing with other carriers. As they tend to like smaller, less used cities...this can cause a problem in the future when they run out of markets to go in. I dare say they might have to acquire smaller planes that can be used in even smaller markets....like FAT, BFL, EUG, PSP, etc. They do just fine of course with what they have, but in general you have to keep growing to remain competitive.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 23 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2682 times:
Look at a map. There are scads of cities WN could serve without changing thier business model. Just off the top of my head:
Not only do the 738s at TZ have cockpit commonality, but also engine commonality.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14): The only lack of commonality is their 757 fleet...
Well, the L1011s too
This much is true. WN is the Debtor in Posession financing provider for TZ. In lay terms, they are putting up the money for TZ to emerge from bankruptcy, much like Retirement Systems of Alabama did with US. In doing this, they have guarenteed themselves a significant stake in ATA Holdings when they emerge from bankruptcy. So, yes, WN will own at least part of TZ
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4553 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2382 times:
At the Message to the Field a few months ago, I think the one thing stressed with the greatest emphasis was that Southwest has absolutely NO INTEREST in buying/mergin with ATA.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
SendMEtoLAS From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 66 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 23): At the Message to the Field a few months ago, I think the one thing stressed with the greatest emphasis was that Southwest has absolutely NO INTEREST in buying/mergin with ATA.
I agree. It's not going to happen. A merger for WN doesn't make sense, regardless which carrier it is.
I think TZ is the most likely for a merger for WN, but I think the chances of a WN TZ merger is less than %5.
TZ and WN make money off each other. WN is stronger because their FF don't have to go to UA, US, or NW to fly to LGA, DCA, or MSP.
TZ is marketing flights to HA from 3 west coast cities. WN is going to help make their flights successful.
25 N200WN: The Morris workforce was not integrated into WN in the classic sense of the word. All Morris employees had to interview for positions at Southwest an
26 N77014: And non-union with no merging of seniority issues to worry of.
27 PlaneSmart: If the US-based airline industry unravels through uncontrolled airline failures, WN will undoubetdly prosper through rapid growth. However, if the in
28 FRA2DTW: WN is not going to introduce ALPA-think into their pilot force. Their in-house union works and ALPA's confrontational style, which would be carried ov
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