ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1616 posts, RR: 1 Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5283 times:
If there is such a cost saving, why are 738s being built without them. I know the airline has to order the winglets, but why not? The savings is supposed to be tremendous, so much so that WN and CO are adding them aftermarket.
Can the airlines not change an order to add the winglets, are they not concerned with fuel costs, can they not afford the initial cost versus the added fuel costs over the life of the aircraft?
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6005 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5240 times:
Keep in mind that the winglets itself adds weight to the aircraft - so before they can really be seen as effective, the cruise have to be long enough, so the fuel saved is greater that the fuel used to carry the winglets around. Also, I do believe that they do cost a bit to (retro-)fit.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5215 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3): No according to the manufacturer, as they claim they are great no matter what length of flight...
But also the winglets are supposed to cut down on engine power required for takeoff (and thus noise), so this might be a favorable factor for some airlines with greater noise restrictions.
Strange Ikramerica. There is a recommended altitude where winglets are more effective and for short trips, it's probably a minor factor as you take a time to get to the cruise altitude and also to land. Gol (G3) LCC received some 738 without winglets and they operated short trips like CGH-GIG, CGH-CWB, CGH-CNF, BSB-SSA, BSB-CNF, BSB-CGH, POA-CWB. Nowadays with longer flights (EZE-GRU for example), G3 added winglets to its most recent 738 fleet.
Any idea of how much adds in terms of cost the winglets ?
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OptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5037 times:
All of Southwests 73G's currently have winglets and all of the factory new planes should be coming installed with them.
The reason that FL didn't get winglets is, indeed, gate space issues at ATL. Like someone said, winglets are only economical on trips above a certain distance in which the fuel savings at cruise are greater than the added fuel consumption due to the increased weight.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4791 times:
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 4): Keep in mind that the winglets itself adds weight to the aircraft - so before they can really be seen as effective, the cruise have to be long enough,
Except that after sitting on the sidelines for years, short-haul specialist and ultra-tight fisted Ryanair decided to equip all 738s with winglets
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 4): Also, I do believe that they do cost a bit to (retro-)fit.
900,000-1 million USD
Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6): I believe they are actually coming installed on all new 737-700 deliveries for Southwest..
Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 7): winglets are only economical on trips above a certain distance in which the fuel savings at cruise are greater than the added fuel consumption due to the increased weight.
Actually, WN has seen savings even on short hauls. This is one of the main reasons FR has decided to add them
Um, they decided to equip, when all is said and done, close to 400 aircraft with them, so yes, it is worth it. Apparently they are saving on the line of $500,000 per year, per aircraft with that mod. Can't say so much for fuelmizer
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MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4544 times:
The winglets also became more attractive now with higher fuel costs. So airlines like Ryanair and Continental who earlier decided to ignore the winglet options are now retrofitting their aircrafts because the costs outweighed the fuel benefits back in say 2000 but not now.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?