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What's The Status Of The SQ 006 Pilot?  
User currently offlinePalladium From Indonesia, joined Apr 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

I was just wondering what's the status of the SQ 006 pilot who crashed the plane in taipei?

Did SQ banned them to be their pilot forever? or they actually let them to be a pilot again and continue working with SQ?

I know this case is an old case, but I was just wondering if the pilot is really the caused for the accident?

I heard that the runway that was being repaired, the runway light was on and there's no sign of construction in progress or a warning sign whatsoever....

[Edited 2005-06-05 07:21:53]

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
and there's no sign of construction in progress or a warning sign whatsoever....

Well, he hit construction equipment, so I would think there was some sign

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
if the pilot is really the caused for the accident?

Yes



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7636 times:

Well not quite.If you ever had a look at the signage in TPE you would find it still sub par.Can't imagine how hard it must have been in poor visibility.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 7375 times:

Emotionally He must be having Nightmares.Tough on all Involved.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

IIRC he was withdrawn from SQ and got also in trouble by court. Don't know exactly but I think he ended up in jail.

One question. From what I saw few weeks ago TPE has two parallel runways with the terminal complex between. Is this correct? If yes, how could he choose the wrong one. I can understand it when the runways are next to each other. Or am I wrong about the TPE rwy system?

Georg.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7214 times:

There is plenty of blame to go around. The signage could have been better -- a lot better.

User currently offlineBoeing764 From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 4):
From what I saw few weeks ago TPE has two parallel runways with the terminal complex between. Is this correct? If yes, how could he choose the wrong one. I can understand it when the runways are next to each other. Or am I wrong about the TPE rwy system?

Taipei has three runways 05R, 05L and 06. The pilot attempted to take off on 05R, which was closed, instead of the operational runway 05L. In these photos you can see the 05 runways at the bottom right of the airport. They are close together on the same side of the airport, so it wouldn`t be too hard, with the poor visibility at the time, to make the mistake.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Irving Tjin



Also you can see a diagram of the airport here at airdisaster.com.
http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...=9V-SPK&airline=Singapore+Airlines



From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
User currently offlineB741 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Whether it be the airline pilot, the truck driver or the taxi, the person at the controls seems to take the blame, if at fault or not.


Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
User currently offlinePalladium From Indonesia, joined Apr 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7090 times:

From my personal point of view is that the pilot is actually not at fault.
The runway light was on....why TPE airport turn off the runway light that was being repaired and not putting any sign that says that the runway is closed due to construction in progress or whatsoever.....

I can't believe they put all these fault and blames to the SQ pilot......


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

Quoting Palladium (Reply 8):
I can't believe they put all these fault and blames to the SQ pilot......

Because the pilot failed to verify his position using one of the many tools available to him to do so.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

Quoting Boeing764 (Reply 6):

Thanks, that helped me to understand.

Georg.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6762 times:

Quoting Palladium (Reply 8):
From my personal point of view is that the pilot is actually not at fault.
The runway light was on....why TPE airport turn off the runway light that was being repaired and not putting any sign that says that the runway is closed due to construction in progress or whatsoever.....

I can't believe they put all these fault and blames to the SQ pilot......

There was a NOTAM that the runway was closed and that there was construction equipment on the closed runway. That should have been enough to give the pilot pause to make very, very sure that he was on the correct runway. He did not. The preponderance (but not all) of the fault is with the pilot.

That said, the airport could have done a better job, as you point out.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6737 times:

Well, all the armchair experts have weighed in. So, I will put forth my humble perspective.

During the best of times, TPE is a nightmare. The signage is useless there. Now you add, night, wind, rain, reduced visibility and you have an accident waiting to happen.

Was the crew to blame, yes. But the question I would ask is why takeoff in the first place. I, as a Captain, don't have to get anywhere. If someone wants me to violate my own standards, sorry, it's not going to happen. It's easy to view the situation with 20/20 hindsight, but frankly, the cause of the accident was the decision to go. The signage, or lack of it was a very big contributing factor.

The original question was what happened to the crew. The last I heard, and this was some time ago was ALPA-S is trying to get the crew back. Will it happen? I doubt it. But they are trying.


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
But the question I would ask is why takeoff in the first place. I, as a Captain, don't have to get anywhere. If someone wants me to violate my own standards, sorry, it's not going to happen

Come on- yes "Captain has the last word", But doesnt the circumstances in which you work , the company policies - the possible inconveneiences of a delayed flight- FDTL (may not be an issue here as I beleive they were starting their duty)- dont they all count?

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall, at Tenerife in the Pan Am-KLM accident, the fact that the crew was nearing their FDTL also played a part right?

I live in India, and I recall way back in the 1990s, when both Indian Airlines and East West had flights landing at Cochin within minutes of each other from Mumabi using 737s (classics), during the monsoon, every few days, the Indian Airlines flight used to divert to its alternate (Trivandrum) due to Weather, while East West used to land withoout fail!!!!


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6595 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
East West used to land withoout fail!!!!

There was a report about a Go around from COK during Landing in Bad Weather the Aircraft Wingtip touched the Surface as the Pilot [currently in 9W] opted for CJB.
Dont know how true.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
Come on- yes "Captain has the last word", But doesnt the circumstances in which you work , the company policies - the possible inconveneiences of a delayed flight- FDTL (may not be an issue here as I beleive they were starting their duty)- dont they all count?

In a word, NO!

I am sorry if you don't agree, but if I don't consider the situation safe, that's the end of the story. I don't care how much pressure is exerted on me, I have my own bottom line that I will not compromise. As much as an inconvienence it is to delay or cancel a flight, it's a small price to pay in the larger view of things.

Quite frankly, the company can always get someone to fly the trip.


User currently offlineTBA04 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6539 times:

PhilSquares, I couldn't agree more!

Sure most of time people will get away with cutting corners for safety, but is it worth the risk of potentially fatal cosequences? NO!

Can you imagine the pax reaction to this 'she'll be right' attitude if they knew?!

IMO there is no place for safety short-cuts in aviation.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6480 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 15):
I am sorry if you don't agree, but if I don't consider the situation safe, that's the end of the story. I don't care how much pressure is exerted on me, I have my own bottom line that I will not compromise.

Flight management tells us that they will never question good judgement, whether it's a go-around or a delayed flight, in the name of safety.


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

[

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 15):
Quite frankly, the company can always get someone to fly the trip.

And I am sure there will be atleast a few companies in whiich the company may as well decide to get someone else for your job as well! Not all countries have water tight labour laws!


Look folks - PhilSquares/TBA04/Cosmic cruiser et all. I respect and support your strong views on this and if I am caught in a similar situation as a passenger, resulting in inconvenience, I would take exactly the same view - SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT.

But - what I am trying to state is that unfortunately, many pilots are literally forced (ofcourse the pushes and pulls will always be subtle) to flout laws. That is something which you may have to live with, in some coputnries/operators - more than the others.

I am no expert in the flying side of things - yes - maybe even an "arm chair expert". But I do have a rudimentary academic knowledge of flight operations and safety and also peruse accident reports in detail (within the limitations of my knowledge). I am sure I have come accross atleast quite a few in the NTSB database itself, where the pressure exerted on the operator to complete the flight was cited as a contributory factor to the accident/incident.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
There was a report about a Go around from COK during Landing in Bad Weather the Aircraft Wingtip touched the Surface as the Pilot [currently in 9W] opted for CJB.
Dont know how true.
regds
MEL

Mel these sort of incidents are not uncommon in India, but normally go unreported in the media. DGCA accident reports list only the major incidents.
I do know of one East West 737 which over ran the runway and stopped just short of the boundary wall at CCJ- outside was a steep drop to a public road!

Pasted below is anoter incident taken from the local media at COK , which was one of my earliest posts in Anet way back in 2002.

************
Incidentally 5 hours earlier another Indian Airlines aircraft this time a Airbus A 320 operating IC 976 on the SHJ COK CJB MAA route was grounded at Cochin
after a go around. This has not been widely reported but as per a local media report, the aircraft touched down away from the centre line and went off the
runway and the pilot on realising this immediately managed to go around and landed again on the second attempt. Details are very sketchy about this incident, but the media report appears to be true as Indian Airlines web site shows IC976 cancelled from Coimbatore for 18May.
*******

Cheerio


User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Sorry but thats why a Captain earns his $200-$300k PA. To make the right decisions. If there was any doubt on his position on the airfield he could have referred to his GPS/INS etc. The runway was marked with the runway numbers which tends to make me think the weather was in excess of being safe and/or the flight crew had not read the notam. Yes the runway lights probably should have been off and yes better signage would have been nice BUT that does not, in my view, let the Captain off the hook....

Sorry no excuses



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineTg 747-300 From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 1318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Quoting TKMCE reply 18:
"And I am sure there will be atleast a few companies in whiich the company may as well decide to get someone else for your job as well! Not all countries have water tight labour laws!"

that brings something to my mind. My groundschool teacher use this "story" to enlighten various aspects regarding PIC responsibility.


Please understand that this story is retold by atleast two different persons, and therefore might contain errors regarding actual circumstances. But hopefully it will draw a basic picture.

Several years back, a NWA flight departed into such bad weather that the captain decided to return to the depature airport and wait for improved weather. After x amount of time NWA decided the weather had improved enough for the flight to be conducted, but the captain still refused to fly, because in his opinion the wx had not improved enough.

NWA got a new captain, and the involved captain was fired. He then brought the case to court, and won.

tg 747-300



intentionally left blank
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 18):
what I am trying to state is that unfortunately, many pilots are literally forced (ofcourse the pushes and pulls will always be subtle) to flout laws. That is something which you may have to live with, in some coputnries/operators - more than the others.

That may be true and that's these operators should be AVOIDED. There are some carriers that I can tell you I will refuse to get on.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 18):
I am no expert in the flying side of things - yes - maybe even an "arm chair expert". But I do have a rudimentary academic knowledge of flight operations and safety and also peruse accident reports in detail (within the limitations of my knowledge). I am sure I have come accross atleast quite a few in the NTSB database itself, where the pressure exerted on the operator to complete the flight was cited as a contributory factor to the accident/incident.

Then that's the fault of the PIC. I can guarantee you no one will take the flight if they know the original crew turned it down. That is a simple fact of aviation life.

Believe me, in Singapore the labor laws don't favor the employee. But my bottom line is I don't care. The reason why is I know I am right. As the PIC, my decision stands. There is no amount of pressure that can be exerted on me to continue.


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6172 times:

Getting back to the subject...

Blame aside what happened to the pilot? Some people have said that he is in jail, while others have said that he is trying to get his job back. Guilty or not, what happened to the guy?



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlinePalladium From Indonesia, joined Apr 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

Just right before the SQ took off, there's another plane ahead of SQ and took off safely and also a plane waiting to took off as well behind SQ.

So, I don't think that weather is an issue here. The level of weather is within the limit of standard safety for take off.

This is why TPE airport should have a ground radar control so the tower can control and see exactly what's going on their airport - runway etc...

To prevent an accident, is just not by having a good aircraft with execellent maintenance and well-trained pilot, but the safety of airport play a big part as well.

In this case , during the SQ accident, TPE airport does not have a ground radar control which is very essential and necessary to monitor every single plane in the airport, their exact position and everything. And since Taipei has soo many thunder storm and bad weather, I think this ground radar control will help them a lot and to improve the safety.


25 Zvezda : Jailing someone for making a mistake like that is, in my opinion, unwarranted. On the other hand, letting him continue in the same job is unconscionab
26 PhilSquares : Beg to differ, there might have been an aircraft that took off quite some time prior to SQ6. But there was no departure right before SQ6, nor was the
27 Palladium : so now I am confused... so the captain is the only person who can make decision wheter to take off or not? I thought the people who work in the contro
28 NA : Bad signage, poor weather, fatigue, and a runway closed. 4 reasons, why it was extra-important for the pilot to clarify he was on the right track. 4 r
29 UA777222 : Good call. I recall an incident at BOS or an airport in the area where a female pilot made the wrong turn in poor visibility it was either 0-0 or clo
30 Palladium : I am confused...sooo is it the captain decision or the ATC decison for an aircraft to take off ???
31 PhilSquares : Tower can only give you clearance to takeoff or land. In reality, it's up to the PIC. In this case the freighter Captain didn't even leave the hotel!
32 Palladium : woot... so then I guess, you, as being a captain must take every responsibility then... Don't you think ATC should at least can give advice to not le
33 Zvezda : Sometimes we do. Anyway, I don't think it's an entirely fair analogy. Doctors often deal with situations where patients will die regardless of what t
34 PhilSquares : Exactly right, it's the Captain's responsibility. No, I don't think ATC should give advice at all. Yes, I have had to land in bad weather. It's reall
35 Zeekiel : The Captain has the ultimate responsibility of the aircraft and its passengers. However, there were two other crew members on the Flight Deck (both a
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